England in Australia

[puddleduck]

Not to mention England are notoriously bad in warmup matches as was said all of about 4 posts up :

It was more a case of giving Giles, Anderson, Mahmood and Flintoff some overs. Flintoff and Giles especially.

I would say it's a slight worry that Mahmood and Anderson both struggled so much as they are pretty much fighting it out for the final seamers spot.

Also don't forget that this is still a List A game, and noone in their right mind would try and claim England aren't far better in the longer format where their bowlers can actually afford to attack with people like Harmison, Hoggy, Freddie and Monty.

Edit - Posted at the same time as Scmods, and just wanted to say spot on mate

 

[angryangy]

People say that tour matches don't count, but Langerrox is right, teams that get beaten by the first class teams generally get slaughtered in the tests. England have only got six more days of cricket before the 1st Test and half of the squad hasn't played cricket in months. Preparations would seem quite stunted at this point.

 

[puddleduck]

Except England always get beaten by 1st class teams and apart from in Pakistan have done pretty well over the last 3 years

Whilst you obviously want a good showing, this is a List A game and I don't think many people expect England to do anything other than get slaughtered in the Odi series. So to that extent you have a point.

In terms of the first test though, this game has little to no meaning, especially when you consider that 2 of the frontline seamers didn't even play a part, and the likely starting spinner only bowled 3 overs.

Worrying however to see Tresco out cheaply yet again.

... and here come the inevitable collapse as they try to score at 7 an over :

... glad to see that Strauss and Colly are in no hurry to try and chase it, the batsman should have no real intention of chasing the score and look for time in the middle.

Hopefully England will be back on track on the fielding front. If you ever needed a reason as to why Read should be playing ahead of Jones it was provided today. Drop someone like Ponting or Gilchrist, as Jones did Jaques, and you may be looking at game over.

... And Strauss continues his good form of late. I get the feeling he will be a key batsman for England on this tour. He is nice and compact and strong off the back-foot. If he plays Warne well he could be the key man with the bat this series.

... and Puddle issues a nice kiss of death to the form batsman The moment they brought back Tait I could see him getting out. Why does he struggle so much in converting 50's to 100's in Odi cricket, yet has an excellent converstion rate in Test Cricket?

 

[irottev]

Wow, all the England bowlers got smashed. Must be a decent pitch. Mahmood is poor.

Tait has to be in the Ashes squad. He is obviously causing them some kind of trouble.

 

[puddleduck]

Many of the Aussies have been saying how much he has improved since the last Ashes, and thus far it seems to be the case. He has that raw pace that will always cause batsman problems, and with Warne and McGrath able to bowl extended spells it will allow Lee and Tait to both steam in when needed.

God knows what is wrong with Mahmood, at times he looks like one of the most promising bowlers around, and at others he seems so hopeless that he can almost single handedly lose you a game. Very bizarre! That said he is almost definately more suited to the longer format of the game where he can afford to attack more often, and be hidden from the attack if it's going all wrong.

 

[cricketmad09]

Go ahead then......

I will later.

Dont worry, theres no sugar.

 

[puddleduck]

Ah a nice England collapse, I feel like my childhood years are returning By my calculations Geraint Jones needs to score around 20 + 80 = 100 runs to make up for dropping Jaques.

Freddies appaling form with the bat since injury continues. Whilst for Australia Tait suceeding where Mahmood completely and utterly failed. Bowling with pace, full, and making the batsman work for his runs.

 

[smssia0112]

Except England always get beaten by 1st class teams and apart from in Pakistan have done pretty well over the last 3 years

Whilst you obviously want a good showing, this is a List A game and I don't think many people expect England to do anything other than get slaughtered in the Odi series. So to that extent you have a point.

In terms of the first test though, this game has little to no meaning, especially when you consider that 2 of the frontline seamers didn't even play a part, and the likely starting spinner only bowled 3 overs.

Worrying however to see Tresco out cheaply yet again.

... and here come the inevitable collapse as they try to score at 7 an over :

... glad to see that Strauss and Colly are in no hurry to try and chase it, the batsman should have no real intention of chasing the score and look for time in the middle.

Hopefully England will be back on track on the fielding front. If you ever needed a reason as to why Read should be playing ahead of Jones it was provided today. Drop someone like Ponting or Gilchrist, as Jones did Jaques, and you may be looking at game over.

... And Strauss continues his good form of late. I get the feeling he will be a key batsman for England on this tour. He is nice and compact and strong off the back-foot. If he plays Warne well he could be the key man with the bat this series.

... and Puddle issues a nice kiss of death to the form batsman The moment they brought back Tait I could see him getting out. Why does he struggle so much in converting 50's to 100's in Odi cricket, yet has an excellent converstion rate in Test Cricket?

Except this isn't a first class team, it's a B Grade team chosen by the Prime Minister, designed to give youngsters a go. So anyone who doesn't see a bright future ahead, they're thumping the Poms right now. If our B Graders can beat them then we can.

 

[puddleduck]

In a form of cricket that England are currently the lowest ranked of the top nations in... to be fair I fully expected them to lose this. When I say 1st class teams, I mean the warmup games, we've lost to worse and will probably lose to worse

No need to tell me about your bright future, I've actually stuck up for the Aussies in previous posts when some uninformed English fans have said that the Aussies will be buggered because they are all too old.

None of this however changes the fact that England are always appaling in Warm up games, and are a lot worse in List A/Odi Cricket than they are at Test Cricket.

You piled the runs on against an attack missing their two most senior bowlers, and now are running through a batting lineup that probably doesn't know whether to spend time in the middle or go for the total.

I hardly think your comment is exactly spot in either. White, Jaques, Tait are the three players performing very well in this match, and all three are fringe test players, with two of those perhaps even playing a part in this series.

Right I've been watching Cricinfo and reading for far too long now, definately time to hit the sack. End of the day it is a poor result for England, and will unfortunately do nothing to solve the selection difficulties that Fletcher will have but for all the wrong reasons.

However it is important that people don't get carried away with this first warmup game. The key was Freddie bowling some overs, and that was accomplished reasonably successfully with some pace being acheived. Could have done with more players spending time in the middle other than Strauss. Tresco and Freddies form with bat is a worry. Hopefully the reasoning behind leaving out Bell and only bowling Panesar for a few overs was that they are both likely to play a big part in the first test.

Hopefully Harmy and Hoggy are looking good in the nets, although I was surprised Hoggy didn't play as he hasn't bowled since the test series against Pakistan, even though he isn't suited to Odi cricket he could probably have done with some overs, but then the rest of the attack needed the game to either prove themselves or get some overs... at least they acheived the latter of those

 

[Octavius]

Many of the Aussies have been saying how much he has improved since the last Ashes, and thus far it seems to be the case. He has that raw pace that will always cause batsman problems, and with Warne and McGrath able to bowl extended spells it will allow Lee and Tait to both steam in when needed.

God knows what is wrong with Mahmood, at times he looks like one of the most promising bowlers around, and at others he seems so hopeless that he can almost single handedly lose you a game. Very bizarre! That said he is almost definately more suited to the longer format of the game where he can afford to attack more often, and be hidden from the attack if it's going all wrong.

i have always felt that if Mahmood gets it right early he can be quite daunting for batsmen, but invariably he comes back much weaker in his second and third spells. If he doesnt get off to a good start, he just bowls worse than a 15yr old school kid.

Personally i prefer they play an extra batsman than a 5th bowler.

if they need more bowlers than Harmison, Hoggard, Anderson, Flintoff, Panesar, Collingwood, then there is something terribly wrong with English cricket. Worse case scenario, Bell could roll his arm over as a 7th bowler.


i would play

Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
Peterson
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones
Anderson
Panesar
Hoggard
Harmison

with Cook and Jon Lewis as backup

in fact i really dont want to leave out Cook. But with Flintoff still under a cloud...

The guy who needs to front up is Peterson for my mind. That is if Bell continues his recent home form.

At no stage would i consider Mahmood or Giles unless its on the twin spin tracks.

Lewis would play instead of Anderson for me, but i think i would start with Anderson until im sure Harmison and Flintoff were at full strength. In which case i would have Lewis as a containing pressure building bowler at one end in conjunction with Collingwood and of course Panesar, who i see in a dual role strike and containment at varying stages.

 

[aussie1st]

Wow Tait was awesome 8 overs for only 21 runs. Cleaned bowled Freddy too
Theres that finishing ability I saw in White's batting, looks like he could be our next Mike Hussey in ODIs where he slams us home.

Good to see Jaques knock up another ton and Marsh did dam well too.

 

[Iron-Haggis]

England will get skittled if they play 5 bowlers and play Flintoff purely as a batsmen. Australia have shown you can win with 4 bowlers. Flintoff might hit the right areas straight away, then what they'll be playing 6 bowlers. England's tail isn't the best bunch of batsmen going around either. You can get some runs out of them, but you can't count on it. The Australian tail is a little stronger with Lee and Warne and would also be shorter if England play 5 bowlers.

The Prime Ministers XI wasn't exactly B grade, as pointed out by Puddleduck. Jaques, Cosgrove, Birt, Voges, Hilfenhaus and Tait? They aren't exactly the worst players going around. We can't judge England's form until they play the 3 day games.

 

[kodos]

Lewis is primarily a swing bowler and I don't see him being too effective in these Aus. conditions and also Eng already have a swing bowler in Hoggard, really no point in having 2. Mahmood despite his atrocious bowling today should be in there in the 1st test due to the Gabba being fast and hard, England have no other choice unless if they can bring in Broad from the academy squad.

 

[aussie1st]

Theres just no way England should be playing Jones. Dropped Jaques on 20 and it cost England majorly. If thats Ponting, Gilly, Hayden, Hussey... England will be made to pay again. Catches win matches and Jones just doesn't do that consistently enough.

 

[kodos]

Theres just no way England should be playing Jones. Dropped Jaques on 20 and it cost England majorly. If thats Ponting, Gilly, Hayden, Hussey... England will be made to pay again. Catches win matches and Jones just doesn't do that consistently enough.

Just watched the highlights on the news and I absolutely concur with you. Today's dropped catch was poor, Jaques made the English pay with the century and we all saw what happens when you dropped catches against the Aussies last season where the Proteas constantly dropped catches and handing the Aussies the game.