England In India - October 2011/12

I think England are going a bit over the top with their reactions.

first under-statement in this thread for about 30 pages.

for me what this england side really has over other teams is that with such a strong tail they can get away with the wreckage at the top of the innings caused by pronounced swing and seam with the new ball. both of which can be very tricky in england. They are so well balanced, kind of like sri lanka at the world cup. maybe lacking superstars in some positions but without obvious gaps.

however I do think we're getting a bit carried away as I see this england side struggling a lot more in countries where reverse swing becomes available with the old ball and the pitch breaks up and the ball grips.

It would take a brave man but if I was a visiting team I'd use my WK as an opener to knock the batting line up one down, and if a wicket falls with the new ball, bring in the no.8.
 
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I agree about the depth part. England surely have more depth than India, with the players able to come in and cover up for someone who is injured or not available to play.

Although I think India might just be able to win one of the remaining two tests, I feel its going to end 3-0. England, atleast for now, look like the top test team in the world. Need to prove it on the subcontinental wickets though.
 
Over reactions are good. If a turnaround comes, it feels all the more good to pick on those reactions:p

Dont know when the BCCI is going to wake up and listen to the players and put a break in their schedule. Dhoni is right about the cramped schedule (its been like that for years now). As much as we can blame players for opting to play IPL, they are forced to play the IPL or else lose their place in the side (even Dhoni and Sachin face that risk because no one in Indian cricket is indispensable). So if at all a player needs rest, it has to be in the form of the BCCI giving a break for the whole team in the calendar, which does not happen at all. Thats why we saw Sehwag, Zaheer all get injured and affect us badly. As War said, losing our strike bowler, our attack looks deflated, showing a serious concern that we again rely on a few individuals to guide us rather than moving on despite injuries. Dont know how we can fix that hole in the long term. Its hard finding good pace bowlers in Indian circuit these days (almost all want to become flat track bullies). I feel pretty soon we will give up our aspirations of being on top in test cricket and we will focus on the other formats, thereby neglecting tests. More so when the trinity retires. Indian test cricket, I feel, might be going down the drain unless some miracle happens.

We have good test worthy players in our domestic circuit but we continue to pick these Raina's and Yuvraj's based on their ODI and T20 showing on flat tracks. What makes Yuvraj and Raina more worthy of a test spot ahead of Badrinath, Rahane, Pujara, Rohit Sharma, etc? Dont tell me Badrinath failed in the ODI series in WI and so he got his chances. He is a test batsman and he has played only 2 tests so far (scored a 50 in one). Pujara showed great test temperament and technique but sadly he was injured. Even if he was fit, there is no guarantee that he would have played ahead of Raina or Yuvraj in this test series against England (because Raina, Yuvraj are the superstars and they get better preference)
 
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What a horrible showing by the soon to be dethroned, World No. 1 test team. India were toothless and were not even trying to make a match of it. It will be a miracle if India can pull back one from here. Pakistan did it last year with a very weak batting line up. If it was not for those three bastards, Pakistan would have done even better. India need someone to inspire them come the third test. Zaheer and Sehwag would be the men best suited for that job.
England are unstoppable at the moment. Their batting and bowling is unparalleled. They bat right to number 9 and their bowling has got fire and skill. 4-0 seems to be very probable atm.

Yes, people say that Mohd. Asif is one of the most intelligent bowlers in Pakistan, he thinks the batsmen out. Mohd. Aamir is obviously a great talent.

ICC should allow them to apologize and then reduce their bans and allow a comeback. After all they are not criminals. Salman Butt can stay out.
 
India seriously needed to bring back their aggressive attitude, other wise I can see India losing one more test. We saw a glimpse of that aggressiveness on first two sessions of the 2nd test and after that Dhoni just became super defensive and lost the plot. Seriously he is not a test material either as a batsman or as a captain. One way for Dhoni to save himself is to return to his natural aggressive game and bat like Matt prior or Gillchrist.

The real broken link in the Indian team is Harbhajan as the main spinner, even part timers are bowling better than him. Harbhajan was supposed to be a 400+ wicket super spinner, but now he is a 400+ wicket part timer.
 
Over reactions are good. If a turnaround comes, it feels all the more good to pick on those reactions:p

Dont know when the BCCI is going to wake up and listen to the players and put a break in their schedule. Dhoni is right about the cramped schedule (its been like that for years now). As much as we can blame players for opting to play IPL, they are forced to play the IPL or else lose their place in the side (even Dhoni and Sachin face that risk because no one in Indian cricket is indispensable). So if at all a player needs rest, it has to be in the form of the BCCI giving a break for the whole team in the calendar, which does not happen at all. Thats why we saw Sehwag, Zaheer all get injured and affect us badly. As War said, losing our strike bowler, our attack looks deflated, showing a serious concern that we again rely on a few individuals to guide us rather than moving on despite injuries. Dont know how we can fix that hole in the long term. Its hard finding good pace bowlers in Indian circuit these days (almost all want to become flat track bullies). I feel pretty soon we will give up our aspirations of being on top in test cricket and we will focus on the other formats, thereby neglecting tests. More so when the trinity retires. Indian test cricket, I feel, might be going down the drain unless some miracle happens.

We have good test worthy players in our domestic circuit but we continue to pick these Raina's and Yuvraj's based on their ODI and T20 showing on flat tracks. What makes Yuvraj and Raina more worthy of a test spot ahead of Badrinath, Rahane, Pujara, Rohit Sharma, etc? Dont tell me Badrinath failed in the ODI series in WI and so he got his chances. He is a test batsman and he has played only 2 tests so far (scored a 50 in one). Pujara showed great test temperament and technique but sadly he was injured. Even if he was fit, there is no guarantee that he would have played ahead of Raina or Yuvraj in this test series against England (because Raina, Yuvraj are the superstars and they get better preference)

Well, I completely agree with you here! India will be in deep deep troubles, once the trio retires. I don't see any reliable future with Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman. They'll retire next year, all at once- because one cannot play after he has crossed 39. Sachin should retire first among the all. He has done much to country, let him retire straightaway after the Australian series. He might say "No one asked me to play and no one has right to ask me to retire", but the fact is that India will be in troubles, if he continues to play till his body supports. He might be a superman, but I'm sure he won't play after 2012. He should be followed by Dravid, right after the tour to Sri Lanka/Hosting New Zealand. The conditions will not differ much, so experimentation will be an easy task for the selectors as well.

India will not host Pakistan in 2012, but if it happens on some foreign land, I'm sure the one replacing Sachin will get good experience (Kohli/Badrinath/Pujara are my choices). These three should be tested in the three series' which India play without Sachin before the retirement of RD after the New Zealand test Series.Then, we're hosting England and Australia for 4 test matches each, which means the one replacing RD in the main team will also get fair form before Laxman retires. Laxman should retire after hosting Aussies, which means, India will be without Sach, RD and Laxman after 2013.

India will definitely lose Numero Uno, as the three pillars fall down, but it is it, nothing is permanent.

Regarding Yuvi and Raina in Test cricket, at current situation, we are forced to play Yuvi. He is the only man, who is not tired of playing cricket.

Raina should be given some rest, before he is given a chance! WC followed by IPL, followed by full WI tour followed by England tour, he's already strained. He should be given fair amount of rest by not selecting him for the ODi series. Again there is CLT20 coming up straight away followed by hosting England and Windies. I'm sure Cheeka would give Raina again a captaincy chance to Raina for the West Indies tour with all juniors playing, so, he deserves some rest. Bunking CLT20 isn't possible as Srinivasan will cry, if Raina says he's unfit- so He has to be rested, at any cost. Its high time for him.

Harbhajan is going through rough patch, which he's trying to get rid off. He must come back to form by the Australian series, which means he should be rested as well. He has to strictly concentrate on his bowling first in NCA and then rejoin the team. He has got bit of over confidence, nothing much. We have Ashwin, Amit Mishra and Pragyan Ojha doing well, they can be stand ins for Bhajji in English ODi tour.

One last thing I want to say is Dhoni should strictly constrain himself only to One Day cricket! He is unable to play test cricket- its clearly visible. Make him a non playing captain- but no Dhoni into test cricket action please. He might do average stuff in sub continent pitches, but no way he can play good test cricket on foreign lands. He cannot become real test cricket star with a single huge knock, he should play consistently 50+ knocks, which he isn't able to.
 
This might be OT, but some real sensible decision by Pragyan Ojha (India's left arm spinner) to join county cricket to hone his skills in unfavorable conditions. He has been given permission by BCCI to play for Surrey. Maybe Harbhajan should follow suit, take a break and play county cricket to discover his form and build variations and patience on unfavorable tracks.

Also, look at who's talking about short pitched bowling?
India in England 2011: Sourav Ganguly rips into India's build-up:lol

When the current generation of Indian cricket started, Saurav was in his late 30's and on the cusp of retirement. If he had been in his late 20's today and had played cricket in today's times, he would have said the same thing that Dhoni has said about the cramped schedule. Playing for India or not, the schedule these days takes a toll and its not easy to get rest (unless you are Sachin or Dhoni)
 
This is a poor series from India but they can't help it either. England deserve the wins but we all should keep in mind that this is not the full Indian team. This is funny how India lost 2 tests and people all over the world think that they are number 1 for nothing. We are missing Sehwag, Gambhir, and Zaheer here and they are 40% of the Indian team. This is just a modified version of the Indian team. A team can't chase down big totals often if they don't get good start from the openers and here we are missing both Gambhir and Sehwag and not getting the starts we are looking for. Dravid is a number 3 batsman and if he has to come up the order and bat as an opener then it affects his batting alot. I bet these victories wouldn't have been so easy for England or even would have lost easily if full Indian team was there. Also, England are playing on their home conditions so they ave much bigger advantage. If you have them play a test in India right now against the same team India played in the 2nd test then I am sure that India will most likely kill England in the match.
 
It will be interesting to see what Dhoni comes up with in the third test. Remember India are slow starters, but this is an English team that wont let them rest.
 
Times view: India don't deserve to be No.1 Test side in the world - The Times of India

Exactly as i always said and this coming from an Indian website. India are being classed # 1 because of the ranking system which is faulty. If we never had a ranking system no one would be calling India #1, as much as England IMO shouldn't be called # 1 just yet, since they still need to be beat S Africa home and away IMO.

Since Australia's decline after the 2007 Ashes, South Africa and India have been the two equal best test teams when it comes to series victories since then. And thats solidified by the fact that both those sides drew three (3) series with each in the last couple years.

England demolition of India means that England are now better than India, but as aforementioned, they still need to tackle the S Africans & beat them, along with winning in IND and SRI before they can 100% call themselves the # 1 test side IMO.

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Dont disagree, wouldn't mind if this line-up played as well, should still result in a victory.

How are they better than India atm? They have beat India at HOME, If they can beat them in India then they should be close to number 1 or even better than India. India can CRUSH any team in Tests at home. So winning at home isn't a big deal. England played at home and won but they would get creamed if they had played at India.
 
slow starters lol, the series is over for them.

Atleast people have hope in them getting atleast 1 win here unlike England who played in India and lost the series 5-0 lolz :lol
 
They have beat India at HOME, If they can beat them in India then they should be close to number 1 or even better than India. India can CRUSH any team in Tests at home.

No they wouldn't.

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Atleast people have hope in them getting atleast 1 win here unlike England who played in India and lost the series 5-0 lolz

Yes because they were Test matches... Oh wait.

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Atleast people have hope in them getting atleast 1 win

Additionally, who has hope for them? Nearly everyone thinks they're going to be thrashed as no one can see them coming back from two slaughterings.
 
This guy knows nothing, that year india won 1 0 with the second test a draw. The 5 0 was oneday cricket not test. England have not won in india for a long time. Look history up for england vs india away and home and google has all. About england, what a team right now. India need to get a good spinner and maybe they can come back. I still rememebr the warne and mcgrath bowling to the english, i miss them years. Now the england team now vs aus of 2005 that would be a great test series.:D
 
No they wouldn't.

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Yes because they were Test matches... Oh wait.

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Additionally, who has hope for them? Nearly everyone thinks they're going to be thrashed as no one can see them coming back from two slaughterings.

The point I was trying to make there with that 5-0 defeat in India is that England are nothing when they play in India. Absolutely the England team deserves credit for the 2 wins but there is no need for overconfident in english fans as this wasn't enev the whole Indian team as we were missing openers and the spearhead bowler Zaheer Khan. in addition to that, England had their full side in with the home advantage. It should have been a piece of cake for them to destroy this indian team without some of their main players along with home advantage. But they still struggled a bit from the crap bowling that India has. That is truly not making them number 1. Also, they beat india at home just like India would kill England if they played in India. I dont see what is the point of overconfidence. Enjoy while you play at home cause you probably wont even win a session when playing in india.
 

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