England In India - October 2011/12

[Themer]

Cook is a class opener, his game has moved on so much since that period in which he was dropped.

I don't think they did drop him actually. He was one test away from being dropped but score that century against Pakistan.

 

[SaiSrini]

Another name the selectors should look at is Varun Aaron who alongside Umesh Yadav is one of the two fastest bowlers in India (Yadav being the other, of course). Take a chance on them, I say. Like I said, they can't possibly bowl worse than this. Both have done decently in the 3 day matches in the Emerging Players tournament.

Yeah just saw the scores of the Emerging Players tournament match. Varun Aaron has bowled really well there. Maybe both him and Yadav deserve a chance. Praveen is going to be slogged badly when he bowls in subcontinent and in conditions where there is little swing available. Ishant is good, but our backup of Sreesanth, Munaf, RP Singh are poor. We need to find options pretty soon.

 

[Aalay]

but our backup of Sreesanth, Munaf, RP Singh are poor. We need to find options pretty soon.

I don't think you have seen RP Singh in these English conditions, have you? He has never struggled and I don't think he will struggle in these type of condition. This is the conditions that he loves to bowl because he gets his swing with pace. He will struggle in India as the pitch will be on slower side but I can't see him bowling badly in here. As I said earlier, I would have love to see him the final 11 straight away just because of his variations from left arm.

 

[ferg512]

I don't think you have seen RP Singh in these English conditions, have you? He has never struggled and I don't think he will struggle in these type of condition. This is the conditions that he loves to bowl because he gets his swing with pace. He will struggle in India as the pitch will be on slower side but I can't see him bowling badly in here. As I said earlier, I would have love to see him the final 11 straight away just because of his variations from left arm.

Yes, this is what I have been thinking all along, why the heck did they not play RP Singh?? He would have been a real handle in these conditions, and would be something different which is something India have really needed. I could be a bit biased because I really like RP Singh but despite his recent form, once they knew Zaheer was out he should have been first bowler picked. Bad decision once again from selectors.

 

[Ollie_H]

I know you guys have your IPL and all that and your players all want the bug bucks but I think young Indian players should be looking to play stints in county cricket.

THAT great side of the West Indies, iirc had the spine of their side playing in the English Domestic setup.

 

[ferg512]

I wish we got the star cricket feed over here, would quite like to hear Shastris thoughts on everyone being jealous still..

 

[Owzat]

re South Africa attack against India/generally, didn't England's tail survive COMFORTABLY twice in Tests out in South Africa

1st Test, 2nd Inns : ENG 207/6 (85.2 overs), ENG 228/9 (96.0 overs)
3rd Test, 2nd Inns : ENG 160/5 (70.3 overs), ENG 296/9 (141.0 overs)

England batted 70.3 overs with five wickets left and 11 overs with only three wickets left in the 3rd Test. 10.4 overs to take four wickets in the 1st Test and about eight overs at the last two wicket pairs. South Africa should really have converted one of those draws to a win, sure Swann can bat but it was really survival and it's not like better batsmen in the top and middle order had caused that many problems.

We won out there in 04/05, drew in 08/09, if South Africa's bowlers were a real force then we'd have struggled like we do when conditions or bowling attacks make touring difficult.

The Pakistan bowling attack last summer (banned or not) was definitely stronger than India's is now.

Had more bite to it, bit more of a no ball problem though

This series is really fizzling out.

Expect the last Test to be worse. I can see where some posters are coming from re the India support, this thread was racing towards 1000 pages early on but once India were 0-2 down the thread slowed right down to a trickle. Do Indian fans only "sleep during the night" when they're down and out of a series.................?

Not quite sure how one of our's is claiming we've been "pretty decent in ODIs", pretty ordinary is a lot closer to the truth. We have our moments, but we're inconsistent and tactically inept. We throw away far too many good positions, either say 100/1 to 130/3 or 4, or having the opposition down and out needing 30+ runs to win with two wickets left and losing. Sure we've clawed games back, but our tendancy to throw it away is more evident, middle overs batting and bowling is the biggest problem. Batting we lose our way, don't know whether to stick or twist with mini-collapses too often around 100-150 runs into the innings. Bowling we seem to be obsessed with "getting through the overs" of our weak link bowlers, even if the opposition are wickets down and need finishing off. No killer instinct

ODI series the Indians will no doubt pick up a bit while they are in it, they and their fans, and once the series is 3-0 to India no doubt their interest will fizzle out. Can TRULY understand why someone would call them fickle, and why some would criticise India.

Oh and in case people don't get it, I am pretty sure the jibe about Test status is only a bit of a laugh. Be careful, it will be fickle with no sense of humour if you get too uppety about it

 

[karan316]

I think you've answered your own question

There are no excuses for the current series, unlike others, I won't give any excuses like the schedule or anything else, because England has clearly been way better than India.

But overall, India has done so well, just 1 bad series cannot determine that they are not good enough. I still back them to bounce back. I won't start saying stupid things against the team just because of 1 bad series, I can understand the criticism for this series, but their performance apart from that has been awesome.

----------

I know you guys have your IPL and all that and your players all want the bug bucks but I think young Indian players should be looking to play stints in county cricket.

A lot of young Indian cricketers are willing to play in the English county, Big Bash and also Srilankan Premiere league, but the BCCI is coming in their way. Not giving NOC. What's their fault? the BCCI is not allowing to play anywhere else.


----------

[/COLOR]

The batting line up will bounce back certainly, they ooze class, but their bowling attack wouldn't be good enough for an English domestic side to be honest, they really have been diabolical. Even with Khan, they're pretty naff.

Won't argue on that, agree with you, our bowling lineup is nowhere,
thats the reason why I am blaming the management too much,
Zaheer should be selected only when he is fit, Harbhajan has been out of form from a very long time, he should have been given a break a long time ago, he is not even able to bowl at a decent economy, forget about taking wickets at crucial times. Was atleast happy to see how Mishra was trying his heart out, unlike Harbhajan who sulks when he gets hit for runs.
We have 2 3 very quick bowlers(Umesh Yadav and Varun Aroon) currently in the domestic arena who have been performing well for more than a couple of years, I think they should have had a look at them at some point of time,
And don't understand why Raina is been selected for tests, I would really prefer an all rounder at that number, there are many test specialists available, atleast that would bring some stability to the bowling, Raina cannot perform much on challenging wickets, he needs some time, he has age on his side, can be a future prospect, but not for now.
And they have made constant changes in the team where it is not required,
really don't understand what they are upto.

The players are doing all they can, I still stand by them, its the management which is taking India backwards.

Having said that i won't take anything away from England, even if we would have had a better management and better system, we would have anyways lost because of the way England has performed in the current series...

 

[karan316]

Firstly no, the SA bowling attack overall and conditions was not better than England here. That is the massive difference that enabled India to escape that series with a draw compared to this series.

South Africa didn't have back-up to Steyn/Morkel. India batsmen after they were blown away in that first test, found a way see of those two in the final two test a score of the average S Africa back-up bowlers in Tsotsobe, Harris.

You compare that to ENG here and IND have had no respite or weak links in the England attack to feed on its been a consistent barrage of pressure from 4 quicks in Anderson/Tremlett/Bresnan/Broad.

I think Steyn and Morkel are more threatening than Broad and Anderson and were in an even better form in that series against India,

I agree with your on your point of the 3rd seamer, S. Africa didn't have that effective 3rd seamer as England are having,

and as to Swann and Harris, all they have to do in such conditions is support the quick bowlers as a spinner won't be very successful against India in such conditions.
So it wouldn't have mattered if Tahir would have been there instead of Harris and Tahir is anyways inexperienced. Swann is the best spinner currently but hasn't had much of a role in the current series. He might have some impact in the current match as the pitch is getting a bit slower, but overall there is nothing much a spinner has to do in foreign conditions against India.

 

[macintosh]

Yes, this is what I have been thinking all along, why the heck did they not play RP Singh?? He would have been a real handle in these conditions, and would be something different which is something India have really needed. I could be a bit biased because I really like RP Singh but despite his recent form, once they knew Zaheer was out he should have been first bowler picked. Bad decision once again from selectors.

RP Singh last played a First Class 6 months ago, there have been so many better options than him currently, he has even lost his fitness, he had performed brilliantly in the last England tour but he is struggling a lot currently,
don't think that the selectors have taken a bold decision by picking a player on the basis of talent, this is another baffling decision by them because even if RP Singh performs in the swinging conditions he might not be able to continue for long and maintain his fitness.

I think Raina is a waste in swinging conditions, he should be replaced by an allrounder to solve our bowling problems and bring some stability. Irfan Pathan is the best for the job as he is very fit right now and swung the ball a lot in the last 6 games of the IPL he played. In foreign tours he is a must as we need 5 bowlers to make an impact looking at the current scenario. Irfan can bowl as a number 5 bowler and bat at number 7.

And when it comes to replacing the first 4 bowlers I think we have Umesh Yadav, V Aroon who are just super fit unlike other Indian bowlers and bowl above 140s. Aroon is the quickest bowler we have right now with a lot of control and accuracy. Praveen and Mishra are doing good, others need to be rotated including Zaheer because of his fitness.

 

[mohit_dude10]

Another name the selectors should look at is Varun Aaron who alongside Umesh Yadav is one of the two fastest bowlers in India (Yadav being the other, of course). Take a chance on them, I say. Like I said, they can't possibly bowl worse than this. Both have done decently in the 3 day matches in the Emerging Players tournament.

It'll be same old story. They'll do well for a season and then for some reason they'll lose all the pace they had and get injured frequently.

Ishant, RP, Sreesanth, Pathan, Balaji.. so many bowlers came in with a lot of promise and bowled quick too. After a season all became trash.

Didn't Munaf also clock 145 during his debut series? He hardly touches 130 now.

 

[AkshayS]

Wow I think Bangladesh put a better fight than this Indian team.

 

[macintosh]

Yeah that also really annoys me how Raina bowls all the time, its like thats who Dhoni turns to when he wants to give up. He offers nothing as a bowler, and almost always get smashed sure hes got a fair few ipl wickets but thats nothing compared to test cricket.

and most of his IPL wickets are of the tailenders he just bowls on spinning wickets against the lower order. Don't know why MSD is trying to prove his worth as an all rounder, he is just not good enough for test cricket, not a good option at all for test cricket for long term. Tendulkar bowls much better than him, would love to see him bowl more, atleast he offers so much of flight and turn. Raina on the other hand just tries to bowl flat without any turn expecting the batsmen to hit one of his loose deliveries in to the hands of the fielder or a ball keeping low to hit the stumps. Too much of negative cricket from his side considering the number of over he bowls

 

[BKB1991]

I love how the Pakistani fans (and I guess Bangladeshi now as well) are watching this match just to convince themselves that Pakistan is better than India . How desperate. I wonder what warped parallel universe they live in...

Cheap shot shravi. I dont know about the others, all I am saying is Pakistan were more competitive opponents then India. Goes to show that you would rather have a quality bowling attack, than a batting one. Keep in mind we had a ████ batting order that consisted of Butt, Farhat, Ali, Amin/Hameed, U Akmal and Yousuf and neither of them were in any sort of consistent form barring Ali.

I think its not as bad as it seems for India. India has got everything against it coming into this series. A long season, tired players, consistent injuries, coming of a world cup win, (lack of motivation perhaps?), very different conditions, and even a new coach (Would Kirsten's India fail this badly?). England though seem well prepared, they have got the ideal conditions for their team, everyones chipping in, weather, and mentally and physically better prepared.

This is an important stage in Indian cricket. They need to re emphasize on a few of their priorities. Players like Yuvraj, Raina, and dare I say Sehwag, can score centuries and centuries on flat tracks but will fail in challenging conditions. Bowling, you cant even really comment this has to be one of the worst bowling attacks.

 

[cricket_icon]

The Pakistan bowling attack last summer (banned or not) was definitely stronger than India's is now.
As Geoff Boycott said Bangladesh would have shown more fight. This series is really fizzling out.

You are spot on, and in tests since Jan 2010, Pakistan's bowling attacked is second only to England and SA...and this is with some pretty ordinary bowlers in the side (Tanvir Ahmed ).

I don't think Pakistani fans are saying their team is better than India, what they are mostly saying is that in English conditions, with a much worse batting side, they gave England more of a run for their money, compared to the supposedly "greatest of all time" batting line up that India and Indian fans professed to having.

Back to this match, good to see Cook heading towards another double century, their seems to be no stopping this guy. If he carries on batting like this for a few more years he could become England's highest ever run scorer.

----------

I agree with the point that Karan has made. The SA attack was not as well rounded, also the last match was drawn because of SA's inability to take a risk and declare earlier. They batted far too long.