England In India - October 2011/12

Congrats to Indians for avoiding the Whitewash :rolleyes. They would however dearly like to end this nightmare with a win in the final ODI.
 
The majority of ODI cricket bores me, it's just not interesting.

It has the potential to be interesting, but a lot of fans are too easily pleased with lots of fours and sixes and no contest between bat and ball.

Interesting discussion on TMS during the break, caught some of it, and Keith Bradshaw (?) and Aggers were discussing the switch hit and if it was 'fair'. I think the MCC had discussed it and saw it as 'fair', the batsman taking a risk to play it and having to be very skilled to execute it. There was the debate about law implications like wides, on and off side etc, but overall I think they were happy with it.

But back to ODIs, to me they are too often boring because nothing happens, or batsmen just whack the bowlers like they are net bowlers. Pitches aren't interesting enough, I preferred the good old days when batsmen would be struggling to counter early swing although some finals back in the day were decided by the toss and that wasn't clever. But surely they can find good middle ground, where the ball does enough to make batting testing but not impossible, that a good total is 240-270 and not 300+ ?

If the ball is doing something throughout it keeps the contest keen and a side bowled out for say 180-200 is still not out of contention. These days all the law makers seem to want to do is make it so more runs are scored in quiet periods, for me a gripping match regardless of whether 20 overs, 50 overs or a Test match, is one where no batsmen is truly "in", where the side can be 100/3 or 100/4 and the batsmen have to decide whether to try and score or just survive, and where tailend 20s and 30s can change a match.

I've played Brian Lara on a console before a fair few times, usually aim for damp pitches so batting is demanding, but if I find batting too easy or trying to hit out too successful I get bored and switch off. You want the odd ball to keep low, boundaries to be earned or lucky, not bowl - four, bowl - four, bowl - four, bowl - six etc. There have been plenty of commentators picking up on the absence of a third man, in low scoring games third man is a must.

And anyone thinking a bowler helpful pitch makes bowling easy, think again. You still have to bowl well, loose balls are even more costly in low scoring matches, and 100s are worth 100 not ten a penny like they are these days. The balance of the side becomes even more important, chances need to be taken, wickets as important if not more so than runs, fielding can make a difference etc

Of course the main driving force behind sports these days is ???, a focus on making Tests last five days, avoiding refunds and less on entertainment value. If T20 has a chance of ousting Tests it is because people aren't entertained as much over five days (some/most of the time anyway)

Something else mentioned in that Keith-Aggers chat was ticket prices, as with anything the big money people at the top want big money coming in and there were comments about people being priced out of the game. They talked about the impact of the ?20 ticket I think it was for the final day of whatever Test it was, and getting kids in. Prices are important, I won't pay ?75+ for a Test ticket for three reasons - it is extortionate, the rain policy over refunds is a joke (they get 25 overs in easily), and I've watched boring days of nearly 400 runs scored for two wickets. I'm not paying ?75 for that triple whammy, think again boy-o's
 
What boggles my mind is that before bopara got out D/L par score was 269. How the heck a wicket and that of.Bopara only cost them 1 run. I was bit surprised when I saw match was tie instead of favouring india. D/L methods needs improvement in also judging the batsman which are on crease. Tailender or middle order, it definitely affects the result. Considering the fact that Broad was unlikely to bat, England are quite lucky here to get tie.
 
That's what you said when you were going to come here, and how many games have you won?

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Anyway, we won the series which counted, the Tests. The majority of ODI cricket bores me, it's just not interesting.

On the test matches i would say that Indians were seriously underprepared while England were on the top of their game. England deserved to win and though its a shame that we got whitewashed. As the tour progressed some of the players got better but that was simply not enough. You need contribution from all the players in the tests to win them. And we lost Zaheer in first few hours of the serious and since then bowling has been a lost cause. Less we talk about Indian Bowlers better.:facepalm
I really envy the fast bowling depth of England. They are like new pakistan in terms of producing fast bowlers *only(not other stuff :p). Here we are struggling for one decent fast bowler and England have almost dozens to pick from.
Where is Onions? He looked really good when i last saw him playing.
 
In Aussie conditions, one rarely needs a quality bowler of spin. Plus, everyone here knows the trio of Johnson, Harris & Copeland are much better on paper to the Indian trio of Zak (doubtful), Praveen & Ishant at least on Australian soil. ;)

Johnson is a pretty fine bowler but in the last few months he has gone through a rough patch. Harris has some seriously good pace but then again, as I mentioned earlier, he's way too inconsistent. He can prove to be dangerous for India but then that's only if he is consistent enough with his line and length. He hasn't played enough test matches either to be judged. Copeland? He has just played one test so far and on the Australian tracks, I doubt that whether he will be useful for Australia or not, his pace is not dangerous at all. I really don't see the Australian bowling attack having a upper hand when compared to the Indian bowling attack but obviously they're playing at home and they will be benefited. The most dangerous bowler for India can be Bollinger. His bowling form in the last few months has been pretty good and his pace as well all know, is very good.

Anderson is not really a good ODI bowler and Trott is out of form, Bell only gets starts in ODIs but I do agree with you on Cook. The problem with India is they depend too much on Tendulkar and Zaheer. He should retire after he scores his 100th ton and Zaheer will only play until the next year before retiring from tests and the next year will retire from ODIs, mark my words. And Sehwag is only good in India. Gambhir might be the only one who they are really missing.

Anderson according to me is a really good ODI bowler. The problem with him is that his bowling in the slog overs is not good at all. The first 5 overs he bowls in ODI cricket in England conditions, with the ball moving both the ways. Believe me, he's a nightmare for the opposition. He's just so hard to get away and we've often seen this, Anderson bowls five tight overs and then the opposition's run rate does suffer and they're straight away in the pressure to improve the run rate. The point you make about Trott and Bell is correct but they both are contributing in some way or the other. Maybe, not Trott but Bell has contributed quite well in this ODI series against India. He might have not scored the big hundreds but the 60's and 70's he has scored have come in good time and most importantly they have come in an winning situation and he has played such innings in the past as well. So, his batting form is quite good but yeah, he's not making the big hundreds.

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Coming back to the ODI match, the unlucky series for India continues. :p
 
What boggles my mind is that before bopara got out D/L par score was 269. How the heck a wicket and that of.Bopara only cost them 1 run. I was bit surprised when I saw match was tie instead of favouring india. D/L methods needs improvement in also judging the batsman which are on crease. Tailender or middle order, it definitely affects the result. Considering the fact that Broad was unlikely to bat, England are quite lucky here to get tie.

D/L is definitely questionable. If one of the two remaining wicket pairs had contained a batsman or someone in I could understand it, but not Anderson, Finn and a crocked Broad to score 10 off seven balls :noway

Does D/L not factor in momentum either? If Anderson and Finn had just scored 40 off 40 balls then you might consider they had a chance at 10 off seven, but England had just lost their two "in" or "set" batsmen. It is flaky at best, yet the media grasp it and quote it like a religious nut with a bible.

I still wonder if a panel of judges to adjudicate rained off matches wouldn't be better, if people on here voted I suspect most would say India should have been favourites even if only by a run or two margin. With two wickets left I would have expected the tailenders to miss at least two deliveries, maybe hit a (streaky) four and lose one wicket. That leaves what, six off three balls. Even if that scenario didn't transpire, it shows how easy it would have been for India to win. Except maybe if Bopara and Bell had still been there, I think even frontline batsmen would have found 10 off seven balls quite hard having only just come in.

Voting might not be ideal, but at least ex-pros can consider the situation, wickets in hand, conditions, who's left to bowl, power-plays, how long the batsmen have been at the crease, momentum, gut instinct. I've heard Aggers (?) say he thinks D/L is "fair", what's fair got to do with it, got to do with it? India were on top, D/L shouldn't be making it "fair", it should be making it an ACCURATE reflection of the game at that point. Like 17 runs for the loss of seven overs and three power-play overs is a poor reflection of the game the other night, that might have made the game "fair", but England were short-changed and won comfortably despite that short-changing
 
Voting would be horrific, it'd be filled with bias.

Good to see Bopara playing well.
 
What Themer said, although I'm slightly impressed with his game play over the last two ODIs. If anyone, its Bell who needs to go out - so dreadfully gets himself out every single time.

Meanwhile, are England set to pursue with Stokes ahead of KP for the winter tour of India? I won't even mind should KP not make the cut, but there are players like Buttler who deserve a nod ahead of Stokes, at least when the latter can't even bowl and averages just 32 in List A cricket. It just annoys me when Star cricket displays Stoke's FC average of 47 each and everytime he gets into the crease.

My England XI for the winter tour would be:

Cook*
Kieswetter
Pietersen
Trott
Bopara (6)
Buttler
Bresnan (2)
Swann (4)
Broad (1)
Dernbach (3)
Briggs/Samit Patel (5)

What was it I was hearing about Dockrell & Rankin having all but qualified to play for England? I'd have the former straight in for Briggs in that case.
 
Voting would be horrific, it'd be filled with bias.

Not if you balanced the "jury" with neutrals, who would be judged themselves on their views and have to justify it tv judge style. Better than the rank poor efforts of the duck method, losing 17 runs off seven overs and three PP overs, then deciding 10 off seven balls with two wickets in hand would be a draw.

Good to see Bopara playing well.

About f in time, 62 ODIs in and he gets past 60 for the first time. I wonder if we dump Bell/keep him in reserve, if we couldn't move the Bopar up the order.

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Meanwhile, are England set to pursue with Stokes ahead of KP for the winter tour of India? I won't even mind should KP not make the cut, but there are players like Buttler who deserve a nod ahead of Stokes, at least when the latter can't even bowl and averages just 32 in List A cricket. It just annoys me when Star cricket displays Stoke's FC average of 47 each and everytime he gets into the crease.

Another snippet off TMS, they were saying Stokes would have come in the side earlier but for his injury. Shame as that could have been good experience in English conditions, unfortunately he could go on tour with only a few caps to his name. Shame he can't bowl, might be worth holding him back until next summer so he doesn't overdo it.
 
@Haarithan

I like the way that you are looking to the future by including Briggs and Buttler in your side, but realistically they aren't going to be in that team in a couple of months, more likely that they'll pick people like Stokes, Panesar or maybe even Borthwick, they all have international experience of some sort (I know the latter has only played one game, but it's one more than Briggs) And why pick Buttler when you've already got Kieswetter, other young batsmen, like James Taylor, are much better at batting IMO
 
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Two numbers: 69.81 and 162.50

The first is Buttler's career average, the second his average from this season in One day cricket. That's why he deserves a chance. If we're moving Morgan up the order, we need a finisher and Buttler has been the best on the County Circuit for the last two years.

This time last year I said that he needed another year to see if he could do as well as he did last year and he's done better. I say give him a chance.

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Also great to see Bopara with such a mature knock. He deserves a go at number 4 in this team for me. He's the closest thing we have to a Pietersen replacement, so deserves a run in a settled position. Especially now we've seen that he can get substantial scores.
 
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I really don't see that comparison at all. Bopara is a decent wristy nurdler but doesn't really play like Pietersen.

When you compare the way he plays in ODIs I agree, he's not like him. I want to see the Bopara who plays for Essex, the one who goes out there and dominates and gets big scores. That's where the comparison comes from. I just wish England would play him at number 4 and tell him to be naturally aggressive, see if he really has the talent that he seems capable of. If not, then by all means cast him aside. I just think he's possibly capable and deserves a shot at it.
 
When you compare the way he plays in ODIs I agree, he's not like him. I want to see the Bopara who plays for Essex, the one who goes out there and dominates and gets big scores. That's where the comparison comes from. I just wish England would play him at number 4 and tell him to be naturally aggressive, see if he really has the talent that he seems capable of. If not, then by all means cast him aside. I just think he's possibly capable and deserves a shot at it.

This. Ravi has the potential to fill Collingwood's boots and maybe be better than him. Ravi clearly needs to get over some mental hurdles and I think he is doing this, a good run in the team will help him. He's almost certainly going to be playing in India, which will do him and the team a huge help.

It'll be when he's scoring runs consistently and at a decent rate when we start seeing the Ravi Bopara who scored a one-day double hundred few years back. He's a special talent who needs a lot of nurturing, but we should be backing him.

Why are people talking about an Australian bowler in a India v England thread?

That's a rhetorical question if people are unsure btw.
 

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