England In India - October 2011/12

[aayush93]

I still stand by my claim that the England selectors, Coach and Captain don't use Kieswetter in the right way. For Somerset, he has Trescothick at the other end blazing away, while he builds an innings and then explodes towards the end. That's what he should be doing for England, because unlike Cook, he can go aggressive and score big runs later on in the innings. Instead he has to try to do the pinch hitter role, which doesn't really suit him. Look at the CLT20, he was at his best batting deep into the games and getting boundaries at the end.

As I've said for the last year or more, bring in Davies as that pinch hitter and let Kieswetter play the anchor role. That's how you get the best out of both of them. Then it doesn't even matter who keeps wicket. Instead we get Cook sinking anchor and getting 50 or so at best because he can't find the boundary later in the innings, hence him picking out deep mid-wicket.

then where Cook will bat ?

I don't know why England made Cook Captain of ODI. The more ODI cricket he plays, the more attacking shot he will start playing in TEST matches also which will give bowlers more chance of getting him out.

This very same thing happen to Dravid in 2009-2010.. Earlier his 70-80 strike rate was good enough in ODI but then likes of raina, gambhir and others came who started to score faster than him.. Thats why he was dropped and to match the strike rate of those players he started to play attacking shots which dravid never played in his entire career.

Due to all this he started to play more shots in test matches and because of this his test average gone down from 60 to 52..

Now as he was not selected in world cup squad, he has forgotten about those
shots now.. And Now we are seeing our OLD Dravid who just want to bat and bat..

 

[Themer]

Funnily enough, just after he came out he never played again... not that I'm suggesting any kind of bias, but strange coincidence.

He was out of the team waay before he came out.

 

[MUFC1987]

then where Cook will bat ?

Chelmsford

 

[puddleduck]

@ aayush, I completely agree. The only reason I think they made him ODI captain was so that when Strauss retires he is the natural successor and they wanted him to have had experience. To be fair to him, he did work really hard on his one day batting, and at county level improved measurably. However, if you have control against Cook he won't score runs. He can't manufacture runs. Bowl short, or wide and he'll fly along at a good strike rate. At international level, that's not good enough.

I too worry that it may have a detrimental effect on his test batting. I really hope it works the other way, and instead he is just able to change his pacing better, but I do worry that he won't hit test series running as he'll have too much on his mind.

@ MUFC haha - It's weird isn't it being an England fan. The two weak links in the ODI batting lineup are possibly Trott and Cook if they bat together, both of whom probably average the most over the last year. Numbers aren't everything I guess.

Was he Themer? Was he not in the squads, and then left out around the same time he came out? To be fair, that's about close as my posts come to trolling, but anything to try and drive a debate

 

[Haarithan]

Pretty sure Davies was left out only after he came out.

 

[Themer]

Davies was dropped after the second ODI in OZ because England didn't think he'd do well on the Sub Continent. He came out before they'd even left for Australia months previous.

That was meant to say "waaay after" earlier.

 

[Haarithan]

Yeah, just saw that him coming out had nothing to do with his mysterious axe. Though he came out only after the tour of Australia.

England news: Steven Davies reveals he is gay | England Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

This article dates February 28, 2011. While the tour ended on February 6, 2011.

 

[Ollie_H]

As I've said for the last year or more, bring in Davies as that pinch hitter and let Kieswetter play the anchor role. That's how you get the best out of both of them. Then it doesn't even matter who keeps wicket. Instead we get Cook sinking anchor and getting 50 or so at best because he can't find the boundary later in the innings, hence him picking out deep mid-wicket.

Naive. Davies does exactly the same thing, he has RHB at the other end doing the Tres role.

Also love that Cook is seen as an anchor player when Keiswetter has a SR of 100 and Cook has one of 95.

Ahh, media influence.

 

[MUFC1987]

Just on Cook, I have nothing personally against him. He's turned himself into an excellent Test player and I'm sure if he was around 15-20 years ago, we'd have all loved him, as he'd average 45 at a strike rate of 70, guarantee us 225 runs per 50 overs and win us the game. Unfortunately, the game has moved on since then. He just doesn't seem capable of scoring off a good ball, let alone putting it away for 4, which is the key to modern ODI cricket. And if it's a straight choice between Trott and Cook, then it's a no contest for me, as Trott brings more to the side. He may not score at a huge strike rate, but he gets a lot of runs, and centuries too and there will always be room for that in ODi cricket, but perhaps for just one per eleven.

You either need to be able to score quickly at the start, or at the end of your innings, ideally both if needed and Cook just isn't capable of that.

 

[Ollie_H]

You either need to be able to score quickly at the start, or at the end of your innings, ideally both if needed and Cook just isn't capable of that.

Cook averaged 58 and had a SR of 96 in 'Season 2011.' What more do you want?

 

[MUFC1987]

Naive. Davies does exactly the same thing, he has RHB at the other end doing the Tres role.

Also love that Cook is seen as an anchor player when Keiswetter has a SR of 100 and Cook has one of 95.

Ahh, media influence.

Utter rubbish. Davies has RHB doing the same thing as him, not as well, but the same thing. Both look to tee off from the word go. Sure, RHB may score quicker, but that's not because Davies is looking to bat through.

Also, an anchor player doesn't necessarily score slowly. An anchor is looking to bat through, not give his wicket away by throwing the bat. Which is what Cook does. Sure he scores quickly every now and again, but there are also instances of him taking his time and putting the pressure on Kieswetter, who for my money, is a better One Day batsman than Cook. Note: Not pinch hitter, batsman.

Perhaps it's you who is influenced too much?

 

[Ollie_H]

Sorry for defending someone with stats of 58 and 96 rather than 35 and 100.

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I completely understand that Keiswetter isn't an all out attack player and agree he has been wrongly portrayed.

But wanting to out Trott and Cook from the ODI lineup is outrageous considering their numbers. They are about the only players that can score at the moment.

 

[MUFC1987]

That competitive Summer of cricket we just witnessed you mean? It seems to me like stats from those games only count at certain times. My point is based around the last game, hence me mentioning it now. Cook, scored what 66? Something like that, at a decent rate and then threw it away, trying to clear a boundary rider. From this we get two things. One, he's rarely able to clear a fielder when he's on the rope. With his lack of shots, do you want him chasing down 10 an over in the last 6 or 7? I certainly don't. The other, is that he doesn't have the mindset needed for ODI cricket. Like someone else said, he has his shots and he'll hammer you there all day, but when someone bowls well at him, he has nothing. He's limited. He can hammer a poor Indian bowling attack at home all year long for all I care, he's still not going to win us a World Cup, which is the end game. His game puts pressure on others. So sure, he might get a 120 ball century, but how many batsman have we lost at the other end while he takes his time because a spinner is bowling well at him and he can't find a gap? It's a modern game for modern players, Cook doesn't fit the bill. Hell, Strauss performed just as well and got hammered for it. Seems it depends on the player.

 

[aayush93]

Cook averaged 58 and had a SR of 96 in 'Season 2011.' What more do you want?

how many ODI's he is played.. 10-12 something..
Most of the ODI's were in england.

Pietersen Started with average of 50-60 but now his average is 39..


More than Batting, i think his captaincy has been poor. Bopara is better bowler than kohli but kohli is doing better job than Bopara.. Cook doesn't show faith in this bowlers.

Even in england, India were 5 down at 59 in oval match, but still india manage to get 230-240 runs.


In india, england its easy to score boundaries in powerplay but in australia you need punch in your shot to score boundaries.

 

[MUFC1987]

Sorry for defending someone with stats of 58 and 96 rather than 35 and 100.

----------

I completely understand that Keiswetter isn't an all out attack player and agree he has been wrongly portrayed.

But wanting to out Trott and Cook from the ODI lineup is outrageous considering their numbers. They are about the only players that can score at the moment.

Who said anything about Trott? I said we should keep Trott. As you say, his numbers are great. It adds to my point though. Trott has been our best batsman for the last couple of years in ODIs. Yet, because Cook was at the crease, KP came out before him in the first ODI against India. This shows that Cook being in the team is affecting other batsmen and my point is that I'd rather keep Trott just how he is, than have Cook who affects the game of the likes of Trott, as shown in that first game.