England In India - October 2011/12

I wish England could play a 3 test series now instead of the pointless series against WI. If we could beat England in the tests back in India by a comprehensive margin (which I am confident we will next yr when England come for the tests), we will go to Australia with lot of confidence. How I wish!:D
 
Just dug out some numbers for Haarithan as he seems to love them so much. :p

Away Record Of India and England in both forms of cricket n last 5 years.

Test:
England:
Played: 29
Won: 8
Lost: 11
Draw: 10
Win/Loss ratio:0.72

India:
Played: 33
Won: 11
Lost: 12
Draw: 10
Win/Loss ratio: 0.91

ODI:
England:
Played: 73
Won: 32
Lost: 38
Win/Loss ratio: 0.84

India:
Played: 99
Won: 51
Lost: 41
Win/Loss ratio: 1.24

Stats shows England are more poor away from home than India. So next time do some research before accusing India that they can win only at home. Its the same case for England and perhaps even worse than India. Only team with better stats in ODI's was Australia and in Test's it was Aus and SAF.
 
Sadly, the ICC rankings take into account only the performances over the last 3 years. Go start your research work again now, will be eagerly waiting for its results. :rolleyes Btw, don't even bother the ODIs, 'cause I'm one of the many fans to instantaneously admit that England are horrible in that format of the game. As is evident from this post where I tipped a 3-2 win for either side prior to the ODI series in England.
 
England need some serious workout in this format. They also seem at loss on how to play on slow tracks of sub continent. The huge margins that England lost by in most of the matches should worry their fans.
 
Trott can't be expected to succeed as the sheet anchor every time, and can't blame Bell in his first game in the series. However for the rest of the order which folded, that was pretty ordinary.

England have been poor in 50 overs cricket for some time and indifferent overseas for longer. I'm not sure how much the ECB want to put that right, but at least we know that the likes of Bopara and Dernbach should be ditched for the foreseeable future.
 
Sadly, the ICC rankings take into account only the performances over the last 3 years. Go start your research work again now, will be eagerly waiting for its results. :rolleyes Btw, don't even bother the ODIs, 'cause I'm one of the many fans to instantaneously admit that England are horrible in that format of the game. As is evident from this post where I tipped a 3-2 win for either side prior to the ODI series in England.


Code:
in Africa	2009-2009	7	4	3	0	0	1.33	32.37	5.10	323	146	
in Americas	2009-2009	5	3	2	0	0	1.50	28.42	5.00	270	117	
in Asia	2008-2011	20	6	13	1	0	0.46	30.58	5.34	338	171	
in Europe	2008-2011	4	3	0	0	1	-	31.35	4.89	213	-	
in Oceania	2008-2011	12	2	9	1	0	0.22	28.14	5.06	340	130

away 2008-2011 41 14 24 2 1 0.58 30.07 5.20 340 117

These are the stats of last 3 years!! Happy
 
England need some serious workout in this format. They also seem at loss on how to play on slow tracks of sub continent. The huge margins that England lost by in most of the matches should worry their fans.

England need to review quite a few things :


- Openers. Whether the pinch-hitting keeper has worked, will work or if we are better served by a keeper down the order who can do a Dhoni rather than persist in trying to make joe ordinary into Gilchrist

- Batting. The balance and positions of the batting order are important, not having too many accumulaters and having a balance of attacking, nurdlers and stalwarts. England seem to focus heavily on attacking at the top of the order, I worked out from the SRs and average balls faced of Trott and Kieswetter that you might get an extra five runs for the amount of balls Kieswetter faced on average, but then lose his wicket while Trott continues with a better average. Or put another way quick runs vs more runs gives you five quicker runs which in a total isn't a lot.

- Balance of the side. Five bowlers looks to be a must, England bowlers didn't take enough wickets.

- Number seven. To do with the balance of the side, with six batsmen including the keeper occupying slots 1-6 there needs to be a genuine all-rounder in the number seven slot. England at the moment are playing quasi-all-rounders who are either a batsman who bowls a bit eg Patel, or a bowler who is handy with the bat eg Bresnan. England need to have someone who can score 50+ more often than Bresnan, who can take wickets more often than Patel

- 'Muddle overs'. With a full five bowlers this may become less of an issue, but England need to stop focusing on getting through their weaker bowler allocations and most certainly when a crux period is reached. England bring on a minimum threat bowler when they have sides on 50/3, 80/3 and worse. Instead of applying pressure England too often release it, too much worried about bowling their 50 overs instead of realising it may not go 50 overs and keeping the game in the balance or worse.

- ODI players. Should England pick so many Test players? Does this mean Cook, KP, Trott, Swann etc are playing too much cricket? Are some of them TRULY the best ODI options or are there players as good or nearly as good who have more hunger?

- Captaincy. Not convinced Cook is doing much right, captaincy in Tests is so much less demanding than in ODIs because you can bat on in Tests for as long as you have wickets, you can bring back your best bowler and rotate to your hearts content and there's no pressure to save 5-10 runs here and there, to score quickly, no time to rebuild the innings properly or wait for the new ball.
 
Sadly, the ICC rankings take into account only the performances over the last 3 years. Go start your research work again now, will be eagerly waiting for its results. :rolleyes Btw, don't even bother the ODIs, 'cause I'm one of the many fans to instantaneously admit that England are horrible in that format of the game. As is evident from this post where I tipped a 3-2 win for either side prior to the ODI series in England.

Stats dont change much even if i change the filter to 3 years.
 
The thing is that England's best tour result in recent times is 3-1 against Australia, while India's best in that time is either 1-0 results over NZ and the West Indies or the drawn series with South Africa.

Meanwhile, India's dismal tour of England is a massive dent in their away stats. If you're statistically inclined, you'd have to say that alone makes India look like the worst tourist since, ironically, England in 06-07.
 
I was thinking on this last night, it was a very boring evening :p and why England suck in the sub-continent when it comes to ODI's. I figured as has been pointed out we are selecting the wrong players, but also the fact that we did miss quite a few of our main ODI players. So given a fully fit England (which I do admit isn't always a luxury we have) I would have gone for this XI

Cook*
Trott
KP
Bell
Morgan
Bairstow +
Patel (not fully convinced he is suitable to bowl a full 10 overs, but I can't think of anyone else, Darren Stevens lol!? :p)
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn

I figure that side would have been a hell of a lot more competitive. Finn and Broad I reckon would do well with their bounce and agression, Swann, well Swann had an off-series but I think that was because India could afford to milk the other bowlers and just keep Swann out. Bresnan for if it swings and Patel, because I am struggling to think of a 5th change bowler who can bat. You could argue we can just go in with 5 bowlers on Indian pitches, although as England rather aptly proved we do need 7 batsmen out there.

Now for the batting. Had enough of Kieswetter. Maybe give Davies a go again, and considering we are building for the 2015 World Cup here, I figure we might as well go for youth, which is why I have given Bairstow the gloves to start off with. This allows Trott to go up the order which I feel he would be more suited in ODI's. You have KP and Morgan who are your big agressive hitters at 3 and 5, and Bell can anchor the innings at 4 if we lose quick wickets or place the ball for quick runs if needed.

Now I reckon if we had that XI here we would have put up much more of a fight.
 
So you reckon Morgan and Broad would have made all the difference? I'm not convinced, even if Broad had added a couple of wickets average per ODI and Morgan maybe 20-30 runs more. I think it's a lot deeper lying than that.

You may laugh at your own suggestion of Stevens, but he's bowled a fair bit more than he did when I liked him in my fantasy team - haven't done that for a few years, not the right frame of mind with work etc. He's capable, we could do worse than replace Bell with him. I honestly don't know why so many are so keen to make Bell work, save him for Tests.

Has Morgan not kept wicket before? The keeper doesn't have to be played as an opener, maybe someone could tell England :rolleyes
 
My ODI series review

The obviously lesson that can be learnt from this ODI series defeat, is that in sub-continental conditions - Englanf have a great achillies heel.

I wouldn't go as far and say if Morgan and Broad were around, it would have made a difference. Since if India had Tendy, Sehwag, Khan, Yurvaj - things could have very well and remainded the same.

However ENG middle-order severely lacked Morgan class and finishing ability.

This defeat does not argue well for England Twenty20 world-cup defense in similar slow pitches in SRI Lanka next year, but if we are looking ahead to the 2015 WC in Australia/N Zealand - then their is bright side.

Pitches in Australia wont be low and slow, it will be hard and England's ODI cricket could stand up in those conditions.

So although Flower will obviously want to improve ENG ability in all conditions in ODI/T20 cricket, i hope he doesn't get too drastic wit his chances, since this was the best available ODI squad that ENG have ATM. Its not as if, he left at home any significant talent, that would aided the side in winning this series or something.

Cook/Trott Dilemma:

Having these two in the top-three regardless will always be problematic in this modern age of ODI cricket. On hard wickets they may be ok, but on slow pitches where you need batsmen who can clear the boundary instead of just rotating the strike at run-a-ball - they tend to struggled.

I'm not calling for either to be dropped, but looking ahead to the 2015 WC, i honestly dont think ENG can afford to have both of them in the top three.

Patel:

He tried in this series, played his first substantial ODI innings with the bat, where he actually showed he could be a solid late-overs slogger. Still need to do more to convince he can be long-term all-rounder in the limited overs set-up

Bopara:

He was noticeably absent in this series, which was very frustrating. He is supposed to be taking over the role in ODI team that Collingwood vacated, this was not a good series for him.

Finn:

Very impressive, bowled with great pace and he looks like a good ODI strike-bowler in the making.

Derbach:

Good learning experience for him, got roughed up, but hopefully it makes him a better bowler, since he remains a key part of limited overs set-up.

Best ENG ODI team with all fit ATM:

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Morgan
Bopara
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn
Dernbach

Buttler, Patel, Woakes, Shah, Anderson

Left field selection:

Although he wont get picked again, i still think for limited overs Cricket, England are missing a trick by not having Owais Shah in their set-up. In the middle-order being KP/Trott/Morgan - he remains the best middle-order bat for ODI/T20 cricket in the country.

With Bell and Bopara horribly inconsistent and Buttler and Bairstow still unproven - Shah IMO would give the ODI middle-order some valuable stability in the short term.
 
Jos Buttler from what I saw in the CB40 handled spin bowling quite well and rotated the strike superbly in the CB40 final, when under serious pressure. I'd have him any day over the Bairstows or the Kieswetters. My XI for the Dubai ODIs would be something like this:

Cook (capt)
Trott
Pietersen
Bell (no other go, he's our best player of spin bowling ffs)
Morgan
Buttler (keeper)
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Briggs/Borthwick
Finn

Bresnan at #7 is a highly risky move as far as the batting department is concerned. But that said, I feel we have the strongest #8 and #9 batting pair in the world, which is good enough to compensate our weak-point #7 slot. Had enough of Patel, Bopara and Kieswetter. Kieswetter really needs to stop shuffling between the wickets often, he's shockingly weak there.

This playing XI would not only get the better of the 'muddle overs' problem Owzat was talking about, this also looks to me an English attack that's good enough to bowling the opposition out within 50 overs.

Any other place outside the sub-continent, I'd have Woakes in for Borthwick and someone of the Collingwood mode in place of Bell.
 
During the world cup did anyone see such petulant behaviour from the English team (with the exception of Broad)? I didn't. Even when they lost to Ireland, no one really behaved that aggressively to the opposition, their team mates or the umpire. What changed? Captain? Maybe Strauss gels the team better than Cook? As a training psychologist I read in a research paper that team ethos and spirit are critical factors during a period of poor performance. In fact how well a team support each other and accepts their mistakes (whether sport or occupational) determines how they get out of their rut. Sounds intuitive but when you get correlation studies showing a strong connection it does seem that team unification is the edifice for "bouncing back".

India's tour of England showed how tight-knit the boys are. They support each other and that does bode well for the future. Whether or not they regain their number 1 status is a whole different ball game. They need to tackle their problems and I think India are equipped to deal with it. With England you feel they've receded a whole 360. Swann's comments on Pietersen make him an absolute tool because all it does is create friction. England (nor any other team at the moment) have the talent or mental strength of former great teams (think West Indies of the 80s and Australia pre 2007) so such friction impairs their performance.

Cook should not have been made the captain. Their weakness is finding consistent players who can hammer it out of the park. Their one player who averages over 50 isn't a fast scorer but a builder yet his place is always questioned. Get a proper opener who can score centuries (Kieswetter done the order or not in it).
 
These are the stats of last 3 years!! Happy

The last 3 years would only mean 2009-11. Plus, I was inquiring only about the performances in TEST cricket. I've never believed that England have been a better ODI side than India, NEVER. Not in this decade at the least.

Only a biased, deluded person (SaiSrini strikes my mind) wouldn't concede the fact that England are miles ahead of India as far as TEST cricket is concerned. Agree?
 
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