D
Dutch
Guest
Roy and Overton out Woakes and Curran back in...thoughts?
England Team Discussion
- Thread starter MattW
- Start date
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
I know that Curran is a better test batsman than Roy, but still this is technically weakening the batting by removing a specialist... seems odd given our batting is so poor. Long tail.
D
Dutch
Guest
Seems that Stokes is going to four?[DOUBLEPOST=1568209187][/DOUBLEPOST]To be fair any of the top six could be an opener before they know it... we basically have six openers depending on how may get out within the first 10 overs.....
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
Yeah I’m assuming Stokes 4, Bairstow 5, Buttler 6... which means our tail starts at 5!!
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
I am incredibly confused.
Also time for my daily post:
- Rory Burns
- Dom Sibley
- Joe Denly or Zak Crawley or someone?
- Joe Root
- Ben Stokes or Ollie Pope
- Ollie Pope or Ben Stokes
- Ben Foakes
wasteyouryouth
Verified
Maybe Bayliss wants one last sub-100 score before he goes.
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Dutch
Guest
I think its a clever ploy to promote The Hundred.....[DOUBLEPOST=1568214190][/DOUBLEPOST]As the old joke goes: how many Trevor Bayliss’s does it take to fix a lightbulb..... preferbally none.
Ed Smith
Gaffer
In fairness, some of the bowlers have done better than that batsmen, so why nit add more bowlers...
wasteyouryouth
Verified
I do think, with one test to go (in the series and of Bayliss), why bother subjecting any new players to the team. The winter could be a chance to start over with some new faces. Although I was reading there won't be a new coach until after New Zealand tour. So maybe Jason Roy is being rested.
Ed Smith
Gaffer
I do think, with one test to go (in the series and of Bayliss), why bother subjecting any new players to the team. The winter could be a chance to start over with some new faces. Although I was reading there won't be a new coach until after New Zealand tour. So maybe Jason Roy is being rested.
I thought Bayliss was done after this tour?
wasteyouryouth
Verified
He is, but I don't think they're hiring a permanent coach straight away. Might be wrong on that but sure I read they were going to have a temporary coach for New Zealand.
Willoughby63
User Title Purchaser
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2019
- Profile Flag
- England
Extra bowler was required as Stokes is in as a specialist batsman
wasteyouryouth
Verified
Australia have done just fine without an extra bowler.
Willoughby63
User Title Purchaser
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2019
- Profile Flag
- England
Too fine...
Bevab
Staff Member
Intended to post this in the Ashes series thread originally, but felt this thread would be more suited to it. These are just the thoughts of an outsider who has seen England's performances in tests over the past year.
This leaves me with a lineup of..
Haven't spoken about the captaincy as this post is already long enough without it, will do so if this gains traction! My lineup is pretty similar to @Aislabie's with just one significant alteration in Root's position.
- Jason Roy does not look like a test batsman to me. His defence is absolutely poor and he seems to have no patience to grind it out for extended periods of time. On a flatter pitch, he might be of use as a middle order batsman for some quick runs but as a long term test prospect? The bloke needs to be removed ASAP before it affects his ODI form.
- Bairstow has a glaring issue with his technique that is being ruthlessly exploited at the moment. He isn't the best keeper in England currently and can't bat/isn't willing to bat in the top order currently either. As of now, he deserves no spot in the side.
- Burns is someone I have been backing ever since before the Ashes started even when there were doubts over his ability here. A solid and deserved selection and someone who should be backed for the next few years.
- Was a bit surprised to see some names being suggested like Malan, Mo and Ballance in the Ashes thread. Malan is barely of use in English conditions and isn't a good fielder either. If I remember correctly, it was reported that he would be in contention for selection in away tours where he would fare better with his technique which is the right choice.
- Ali has a solitary century in the last two years of first-class cricket (which to be fair is a double hundred). England's main issue with the current batting lineup is the lack of someone who could make those big hundreds. Burns' domestic stats don't suggest someone who is capable of scoring hundreds consistently (might be wrong here) and it isn't fair to expect your opener to score centuries consistently when openers all over the world are struggling due to bowler friendly pitches over the last two years. Ali hasn't performed well when he has been the solitary spinner except in England and failed there too in the first test. Test cricket is no place for a player who isn't good with either bat or ball and Ali shouldn't be an option unless playing in spin friendly conditions where he should be replacing a pacer and not any one of the batsmen.
- I don't think Root needs to bat at four in order for the team to perform optimally. It might be a better option for him as an individual but he hasn't performed well enough this year to be an automatic choice at four. 3 centuries in 40 innings in 2018 and 2019 is very poor from a batsman of his ability and in all of those innings, he has always arrived at the crease after an extended period of time. This is further proven by his average being the highest when he has batted at five rather than four. I've noted three problems with Root that is affecting his batting at the moment. First one is this where he walks in too early due to the lack of a competent opener (including Cook who's mediocre record has been masked by the total lack of competency at the other end) and number three. This leaves him a lot more vulnerable to the very good to virtually unplayable deliveries that can easily happen with the new ball and a bowling attack that has already picked up 2-3 quick wickets and is on fire. Get another competent opener in to partner Burns, back them with clear instructions to not lose their wicket for as long as possible and you have a much greater chance of Root performing well at three. Either Sibley or Crawley need to get a chance here. I'm completely against Jennings' selection in pacer friendly conditions, but he has shown that he can play spin decently and can be a decent opener in Asia if chosen.
- Root's selection at three also allows England to select a proper number four where England have a lot more options. It makes sense to have a natural number four who is inexperienced at the test level to bat at four while a senior batsman plays at three. This could really be a sign of maturity from Root too if this is persisted with. Hildreth, Northeast, Clarke, Livingstone and Lawrence are all new options to try out here. I don't have much knowledge about them so would be interested in hearing who would be the ideal choice.
- Pope at five is a no-brainer. He averages close to 60 in first-class cricket, is highly rated, young , can actually convert his 50s into big scores and has already played for England. An inevitable selection that should be happening in no time.
- Stokes should be playing at six in light of his workload as the all-rounder and potential captaincy. Probably the most nailed-on player in this side.
- Denly to me is a proper test batsman. A very average one, but at least he has the ability and patience to play a test knock. But the only reason I would have him in the side is if Root is adamant on returning to four and he proves himself to be more than just average at test level. He shouldn't be in the side for his part-time spin, Root can already offer that. IMO, I wouldn't have him in the side due to his age and mediocre record. Buttler is the one that has confused me the most, he has a lot of ability and can also grind it out if clearly instructed to unless the pitch is a monster but is it really worth having a secondary keeper who can't bat in the top five with a very average first-class record? I do not think his keeping is good enough either, he has made a number of elementary errors in ODIs that will be heavily scrutinized in tests. If he is serious about playing test cricket, he should forego a season of IPL and play county cricket to completely prove himself. A pretty unlikely prospect given the potential earnings that he would miss out on and his status as an established player.
- With all of that in mind, I'm opting for England's best gloveman and a more than handy batsman as the number seven in Ben Foakes.
This leaves me with a lineup of..
- Burns
- Sibley/Crawley
- Root
- Hildreth(if age isn't a barrier)/Northeast(if his current form isn't an issue)/Clarke(unlikely due to his misbehaviour)/Livingstone/Lawrence(if you want someone with potential)
- Pope
- Stokes
- Foakes
Haven't spoken about the captaincy as this post is already long enough without it, will do so if this gains traction! My lineup is pretty similar to @Aislabie's with just one significant alteration in Root's position.
