England Team Discussion

[bigred]

Are you suggesting that you would not put Stokes in the side?

No, it was suggested that Borthwick should come in for Vince, an opener in for Hales and Stokes in for Ballance.

That would mean Jimmy, Broad, Woakes, Finn and Stokes in team, which clearly wouldn't be needed. Not saying I wouldn't pick Stokes, but that suggestion wasn't a solution.[DOUBLEPOST=1471434278][/DOUBLEPOST]

He had averaged under 30 over a period in excess of 2 years. That is not a bad year, that is being consistently shit.

And given he plays spin like he's blindfolded and has a stick of celery in his hand, a subcontinent tour would really not be the one to bring him back for.

I think even you know that Bell is a better player than Vince, Ballance and Hales.

 

[bigred]

Do you think if they gave Borthwick, Vince, Ballance, Duckett and co 2 years would they average under 30? Because I can tell you they wouldn't. Face it, Bell tried and failed, there's no point in having a guy who can't average 30 for the last 2 years to try make a comeback when there are so many young talents in England. Since everyone is posting a line up:

Cook
Duckett/Bell-Drummond
Root
Vince
Duckett/Borthwick
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid/Borthwick
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

So you are dropping Mo. Why?

 

[bigred]

our next 2 overseas tours are subcontinent and aus. I would give Roy a blast just to see.

Cook
Roy
Root
Borthwick
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson.

Lots and lots of bowling options plus batting depth. 2 leggies. Seamers can stay fresh.

Rashid and Ali out in Aus. Rashid might stay if he is bowling well. Not sure who they would be replaced by.

So you'd open with a guy who doesn't open.

Stokes shouldn't be that high in Asia. I think Ali, Bairstow and Woakes will all play spin better than him.

 

[blockerdave]

So you'd open with a guy who doesn't open.

Stokes shouldn't be that high in Asia. I think Ali, Bairstow and Woakes will all play spin better than him.

he opens in ODI - does he not in red-ball? my thinking was that in sub-continent the ball won't move early: let him smash it as he does in ODI. similarly in Aus the early movement isn't extravagant and the ball comes on nicely.

re Stokes I just genuinely think he is a class player. when he has the correct mindset to play properly rather than smash everything, he is excellent. originally i thought bairstow 4 and brothwick/stokes a place lower. but in asia we might be in the field a long time and i don't know if i want my keeper at 4 in that case?

 

[blockerdave]

No, it was suggested that Borthwick should come in for Vince, an opener in for Hales and Stokes in for Ballance.

That would mean Jimmy, Broad, Woakes, Finn and Stokes in team, which clearly wouldn't be needed. Not saying I wouldn't pick Stokes, but that suggestion wasn't a solution.[DOUBLEPOST=1471434278][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think even you know that Bell is a better player than Vince, Ballance and Hales.

Better than Vince and Hales, massively. Prettier player than Ballance, but when both were in the side together who scored more / averaged higher? (Answer - it wasn't Bell.)

 

[Markkkkk]

So you are dropping Mo. Why?

Don't think he's a good enough spinner to make the side and I don't rate him as a bat (Yes he's batted well recently). You could probably play him at 8 but I don't think he's good enough to be the main spinner or bat in the top 7.

 

[blockerdave]

I think even you know that Bell is a better player than Vince, Ballance and Hales.

from the time Ballance made his debut to when he was dropped last year, he and Bell were in the same team. This encompassed 3/1/14 to 28/7/15 - 18 months.

their respective records in that time:

Ballance: 15 Matches, 27 Inns, 4 centuries, 6 50's, 1194 runs at 47.76 (Only Root scored more runs, tons and a better average; cook had 2 more 50's but less runs and lower average.)
Bell: 15 Matches, 26 Inns, 2 centuries, 4 50's, 723 runs at 27.8

Against the same attacks, in the same conditions.

I wouldn't have picked Ballance this summer; I would have dropped Bell first last year. I rate Ballance higher.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

He mentioned Bell. You couldn't even quote the right comment. Do one.

And when he mentioned him, you came right back with your typical hate and a post you've posted a million times before. You probably only know how to do just that. You've been on about Vince in the same way as if you hold some crystal ball and yet you heap praise on Ballance who doesn't have a quarter of the test record that Bell does. Anyway, posters like you belong to a certain list of mine, and that's exactly where you go from here on. Good luck to the others with your myopic, endless and brainless rants.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Do you think if they gave Borthwick, Vince, Ballance, Duckett and co 2 years would they average under 30? Because I can tell you they wouldn't. Face it, Bell tried and failed, there's no point in having a guy who can't average 30 for the last 2 years to try make a comeback when there are so many young talents in England. Since everyone is posting a line up:

Cook
Duckett/Bell-Drummond
Root
Vince
Duckett/Borthwick
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid/Borthwick
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I'm with you on that. He doesn't deserve a recall. BUT, before those two years he was a part of a formidable England middle order and did win England an Ashes. I'm not claiming him to be some sort of national hero, but the man did contribute significantly to a successful period in English cricket. My post was more so directed at another chap.

 

[blockerdave]

And when he mentioned him, you came right back with your typical hate and a post you've posted a million times before. You probably only know how to do just that. You've been on about Vince in the same way as if you hold some crystal ball and yet you heap praise on Ballance who doesn't have a quarter of the test record that Bell does. Anyway, posters like you belong to a certain list of mine, and that's exactly where you go from here on. Good luck to the others with your myopic, endless and brainless rants.

I have literally made 3 posts about Vince. 1 of which was saying I haven't seen enough of him to comment, the other 2 were today. This is the 4th. You're an idiot.

And as noted above, when they were in the same team, playing the same opponents in the same conditions, Ballance outscored Bell. There is no disproving that.

 

[bigred]

Don't think he's a good enough spinner to make the side and I don't rate him as a bat (Yes he's batted well recently). You could probably play him at 8 but I don't think he's good enough to be the main spinner or bat in the top 7.

Doesn't have to be main spinner. Could bat at 6 and be 2nd spinner in India, which we'll need.

If Vince and Ballance are good enough to bat in the middle order then Ali is.

 

[bigred]

from the time Ballance made his debut to when he was dropped last year, he and Bell were in the same team. This encompassed 3/1/14 to 28/7/15 - 18 months.

their respective records in that time:

Ballance: 15 Matches, 27 Inns, 4 centuries, 6 50's, 1194 runs at 47.76 (Only Root scored more runs, tons and a better average; cook had 2 more 50's but less runs and lower average.)
Bell: 15 Matches, 26 Inns, 2 centuries, 4 50's, 723 runs at 27.8

Against the same attacks, in the same conditions.

I wouldn't have picked Ballance this summer; I would have dropped Bell first last year. I rate Ballance higher.

I think we now know that Ballance can't play against top pace bowling. A big issue if you're going to play test cricket.

He may remain over the winter as he won't face a good quick, but he'll be in trouble again next summer and then again in the ashes.

 

[bigred]

he opens in ODI - does he not in red-ball? my thinking was that in sub-continent the ball won't move early: let him smash it as he does in ODI. similarly in Aus the early movement isn't extravagant and the ball comes on nicely.

re Stokes I just genuinely think he is a class player. when he has the correct mindset to play properly rather than smash everything, he is excellent. originally i thought bairstow 4 and brothwick/stokes a place lower. but in asia we might be in the field a long time and i don't know if i want my keeper at 4 in that case?

Roy has batted at 5/6 for Surrey his whole career.

The 'up the tempo' theory was what Hales was meant to do. Not so easy against top class opening bowlers. It's okay playing against Lakmal and Pradeep but Amir, Wahab, Steyn and Rabada are a different story.

 

[blockerdave]

I think we now know that Ballance can't play against top pace bowling. A big issue if you're going to play test cricket.

He may remain over the winter as he won't face a good quick, but he'll be in trouble again next summer and then again in the ashes.

I don't completely disagree with this... he was very poor last summer, and was there not another batsman who had been in worse form for longer I'd have had no problem with him being dropped. Equally as mentioned he would not have been my first cab off the rank this summer. I would keep him this winter as he is good against spin, and can play the sort of limpet role around which the likes of Root, Bairstow and Stokes can score more quickly.

It's also worth remembering his 70 in the 3rd test was vital otherwise we could well have lost the series just gone.[DOUBLEPOST=1471440482][/DOUBLEPOST]

Roy has batted at 5/6 for Surrey his whole career.

The 'up the tempo' theory was what Hales was meant to do. Not so easy against top class opening bowlers. It's okay playing against Lakmal and Pradeep but Amir, Wahab, Steyn and Rabada are a different story.

Interesting - I didn't know that he batted down there for surrey. In which case he could be a nice candidate to replace Vince?

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I think we now know that Ballance can't play against top pace bowling. A big issue if you're going to play test cricket.

He may remain over the winter as he won't face a good quick, but he'll be in trouble again next summer and then again in the ashes.

Ballance can't play spin either. Let him come to our part of the world. Our spinners will eat him alive.