England Team Discussion

[wasteyouryouth]

I wouldn't completely bin off Buttler, primarily as captain. If he still has the hunger and desire to play until 2027 I'd say sure, why not.

 

[Supreme General]

for me Buttler is cooked in ODI cricket and should just target being great in T20.

Since 2020:
He averages 28.52 against nations not named Netherlands in 40 innings. That goes down to 22 in 17 innings since start of 2023 WC.
He’s passed 40 8 times since 2020 (6 50s and 1 century).
Passed 40 3 times since start of 2023 WC.(2 50s).

Only 3 of these 40+ scores from 2020 have been in winning matches (1 of them since start of 2023 WC).

His SR is 20 below his career rate in the whole time range but that is probably down to coming in earlier not just a decline.

 

[zakcrawley76]

I've said this before but we don't have the players we had from 2015-19. Skillwise, we aren't far off, but they are not playing at that standard. Consistency of selection is a problem, lack of experience playing regular, good standard one day cricket for the new, younger players is an issue. Not having an all rounder of the quality of Ben Stokes is a problem (no sh!t). England took ODI cricket seriously for four years and were excellent. It's just back to normal and not caring about it, domestically and internationally. Except, when we were crap at it we still had 2, 3 (4 in the 90s) one day tournaments that most players would at least come through as youngsters.

I'd bin most of the top 7.

Duckett - I'd make him captain
Salt - Good for about 3 overs. In the bin.
Smith - looks crap at 3. In the bin.
Root - can do what he wants.
Brook - clearly doesn't work in the ODI cricket at the moment. I'd let him open with Duckett or bin him.
Buttler - in the bin. A great player between 2015-2019 just does not have the captaincy chops in the same way Morgan did IMO. The killer instinct he had as a batter in 15-19 seems to have gone, the lack of a good platform from the top 3 and a reliable middle order hasn't helped him in that regard.
Livingstone - in the side because he bowls well in my opinion.
JOverton - I wouldn't write him off entirely, we could potentially get a good 3rd/4th bowler who can add runs at the end out of him. But that makes it sound easy when Plunkett was an excellent bowler who had 15/16 years of List A behind him when we won in 2019. JOverton averages less than 4 matches a year in a 12 year career.
Archer - looks so inconsistent. Can't deny his talent but I'd rather he focussed on the possibility of playing test cricket in Australia.
Rashid - can do what he wants, preferably clone himself into a younger version
Wood - stick to test cricket for now

I do still think we binned of Jason Roy as an ODI cricketer too soon. Only to then dump his replacement who had probably been our most consistent player. Probably Bairstow was unlucky too. They're both younger than Rohit or Kohli and India has stuck by them. As openers they consistently laid the foundations, along with Root at 3, for the middle order.

Holy shit that’s so bizarre - I’ve just downloaded your South Africa team and while I’m waiting I’ve logged in here and see your reply!

Duckett captain is a shout you know…

Agree 100% other than Buttler in the bin; he’s too good a batter just needs to not be captain. & Livingstone binned for me - he just flatters to deceive too often.

We binned Jason Roy off too early 100%.

Zak Crawley opens with Duckett, Root back at 3, Brook 4, Jacob bethel 5, Buttler 6, smith 7, then 4 specialist bowlers like everyone else does.

Looking to ODI WC South Africa 2027:

Rashid for as long as we’ve got him is 1st name on the team sheet but doubt he makes 2027.
Jofra will prob be there
Carse/Atkinson/Mahmood/Ahmed

Is there a cricketer still there in Sam Curran?

 

[zakcrawley76]

Hilarious take.

Brook and Livingstone fit into completely different parts of the team so keeping or binning one is completely unrelated to the other. Brook's role is to make big scores and play the situation the way Eoin Morgan used to: he isn't capable of doing so right now, so get him gone and replace him with someone (Hain) who can.

Livingstone is a role player who's supposed to hit boundaries in the last 10 overs and be a stock bowler in a six-man bowling attack. He's not doing especially well recently, but it's also not one where I can think of such obvious replacements. I could see the argument for a Jacks, Mousley, SCurran or even Saif Zaib in that same role and I'd not be against them being tried.


I personally would not do this, based mostly off alleged exploits that have gone down in Northants folklore.


I really want to like Salt but agree that he's not managing his role at all. I also binned him.


Talk about a hospital pass. Poor bloke got thrown straight under the bus as soon as they picked him at 3.


Ideally what he wants to do will be play every game batting 3. He's only allowed to bat 4 if Hain bats 3.


Just bin him, but I do see your point. He's never learned how to play one-day cricket properly.


This is the most controversial take for me - but at the same time I also wouldn't keep him in the same role. It does also feel like he's living off five-year-old hype.


Yeah, he's a role player. You only bin him off if you can fill his role.



Yeah, the nostalgia for Roystow was understandable even though they were pretty done by the time they were moved on from. The concerning thing here though is that of the replacements only Duckett has been any kind of upgrade and you do still need two openers.

Apart from...

Dawid Malan was harshly judged and Malan-Duckett would have absolutely paid the bills.

I get what you’re saying & I know they’re not playing the same role.

I’ve seen Liam Livingstone in short format cricket since the 2019 World Cup, and other than a few big scores in bilateral series that meant nothing (and a big 6 that went out of the ground one time) he’s just not done very much for me?

He’s a bit like Jesse Lingard when he was at United “promising young talent” so gets given ample opportunity but now it’s 5 years on he’s not kicked on to be world class.

Like you said; try Will jacks / Sam Curran again?

IMO; Livingstone has got some dirty pics of Rob Key sent to him by accident that’s why he’s still being picked

 

[ddrap14]

Like you said; try Will jacks / Sam Curran again?

Curran's a like for like for Overton, not Livingstone. Bring him in and then you're either relying on Rehan (I know the intangible argument but he's still averaging 37 at List A) or the strapping tape holding Adil's shoulder together as your sole spinner.

Jacks vs Livingstone, there's a debate to be had there though. Or Dan Mousley. Big Dan Mousley guy here.

Zak Crawley opens

Ok I know you're biased but no

 

[zakcrawley76]

Curran's a like for like for Overton, not Livingstone. Bring him in and then you're either relying on Rehan (I know the intangible argument but he's still averaging 37 at List A) or the strapping tape holding Adil's shoulder together as your sole spinner.

Jacks vs Livingstone, there's a debate to be had there though. Or Dan Mousley. Big Dan Mousley guy here.


Ok I know you're biased but

My forum name is basically a joke not biased at all….. but tbh Zac bats in tests like an ODI opener, he’s better than Salt who throws his wicket

 

[ddrap14]

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/breaking-news/england-lose-a-game-of-cricket-in-a-dignified-manner-without-blaming-anyone-else/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0F51sN17_ZuwMtnnalYDqaV1s6X0sk79xpyScQ7WmjUImsiqUntmlTWok_aem_4VNMju3dzeGF_dzlSW1Dxw

 

[Supreme General]

We may still be useless and do not know how to play cricket but we still have Australian media wrapped our little finger with just one comment from 1 and a half years ago