England tour to South Africa December 2015/February 2016

[cricket_icon]

What I meant was that for me, an all rounder is someone that can win a test match with bat or ball. Kallis was one of the top 3 or top 5 batsmen of his generation but I don't think he was a 'genuine match winner' with the ball. His supporting act though, was invaluable.[DOUBLEPOST=1451896920][/DOUBLEPOST]

Don't count SA out for a win either. My only issue is that their bowling doesn't seem to have bite.

Missed today cos of uni but reading lots of positives about Amla's innings. Heard he got dropped twice off Ali, then again, even someone as elegant as Amla has to win ugly some times. Day four becomes crunch time for both teams, how close can SA get to the target score? Can England bowl them out? If so, does it leave enough time to bat and bowl SA out of the game?

 

[cricket_icon]

I know it's not the sub continent, but Broad has Bowles very well on both UAE tours he's been on. I also have a vague memory of him bowling well in Sri Lanka as well.

I don't think he bowled that well against Pakistan, he had a couple good spells and the number of wickets was buoyed by a 4 for or 5 for, can't quite remember. Didn't Ali, who let's be honest, is a classy batsman posing as a bowler, pick up more wickets? Broad is good, don't get me wrong but away from England he isn't all that and in his own time, in his own era, he lags far behind the best bowlers of the day, Swann, Ajmal, Shah, Steyn, Jimmy, Morkel and so on.

 

[bigred]

I don't think he bowled that well against Pakistan, he had a couple good spells and the number of wickets was buoyed by a 4 for or 5 for, can't quite remember. Didn't Ali, who let's be honest, is a classy batsman posing as a bowler, pick up more wickets? Broad is good, don't get me wrong but away from England he isn't all that and in his own time, in his own era, he lags far behind the best bowlers of the day, Swann, Ajmal, Shah, Steyn, Jimmy, Morkel and so on.

I don't think you can compare him to spinners. He is probably behind Steyn, Anderson and Harris within his generation, but apart from that, I can't think of a bowler consistently better than him.

Broad's figures in the last series against Pakistan don't reflect how well he bowled. However he has magnificent figures from the last time England toured there.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Missed today cos of uni but reading lots of positives about Amla's innings. Heard he got dropped twice off Ali, then again, even someone as elegant as Amla has to win ugly some times. Day four becomes crunch time for both teams, how close can SA get to the target score? Can England bowl them out? If so, does it leave enough time to bat and bowl SA out of the game?

Yeah, Amla won ugly but he was really determined today. The ugly innings is part of test cricket. Like I said, none of the batsmen were fluent and people might deny but the wicket isn't just up and down gun barrel straight. It is not decking around, but there's life if you're patient.

I feel England will bat SA out of it and I have no doubt that if they persist with patience, wickets will come. Specially, if SA try another blockathon. I feel a lot of 'trying' different things from Ali Cook yesterday were media preventive measures (bowling strategies) while his field settings were a throwback to the five zip Ashes debacle.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Also, for the people slagging off Cook's 'defensive' captaincy today, there has only been one wicket in this match that has fallen because of a good piece of bowling. The rest have been batsman errors. England weren't going to get people out caught behind the wicket today as there is more movement in the Statue of Liberty than there is out on that pitch. Therefore the only realistic way to take wickets was to frustrate batsman by cutting off their favourite scoring areas. Sensible if you ask me.

The 'only 1 wicket' is a weak argument mate. Like I've mentioned before, de Villiers hit a few straight drives, missed a handful of half volleys and was beaten often when England put it up. England's basic length has been just back of a length and short. Survival becomes easier then. The idea is to put it out there and mix it with the odd bumper, specially when the opposition is so unsure and make no mistake, SA were unsure yesterday.

I've been a critic of Cook with his captaincy, an admirer of his batting and ate humble pie with dignity when his captaincy was top notch in the Ashes in England lately. But, when the opposition is 400 behind and you have a new ball with 2 slips, a gully and third man, it's just bollocks. I don't care how flat you think the wicket is, match situation demands attacking fields. If you add another 100 runs to SA's total, it makes no difference to the match situation. But, if you add 2-3 wickets, England are on top. No harm trying when you can't lose.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Amla has 9 runs in the V out of 176. Shows how short England have been.

 

[PokerAce]

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the spirited show by SA and the innings by Amla. However is there really any plan here. Are they trying to win, or will they just keep this blocking session on for the next two days. SA should really get a move one here. Only one side can win this now, and that side is SA. 7 wickets in hand is no joke, get a move on. Score another 100 - 150 runs quickly and put England in.

SA can't lose this game now, England shouldn't either, but they are now the only side that can lose this test. There is not way there are enough overs to take 17 SA wickets, but 10 England wickets can fall in the 3rd innings if there is a collapse. Its unlikely, I know but SA, have to give it a shot. Get a move on, let England have a 50 run lead and put them in just before tea.

If England collapse great, SA in with a shot at winning. There is no risk for SA here. If England don't collapse, then there is no way they can build enough of a lead to feel comfortable asking SA to chase it down. Even if they do, England would have to bat till one hr past Lunch on the final day to do that. That will leave Eng the thankless task of getting 10 SA wickets in 1 and a half sessions on the final day.

SA have to push on here, if not now, then after tea for sure.

 

[grkrama]

either that or just bat the whole tomorrow and dont put in ENG, atleast tire the Eng bowlers for the next match!


would be best to give qdk a chance to get a hundred for himself and some confidence going into the next game!

 

[PokerAce]

either that or just bat the whole tomorrow and dont put in ENG, atleast tire the Eng bowlers for the next match!

There is a week's gap between this test and the next one. Won't work.

 

[richowebbo]

@richowebbo - You are correct in some regards but Ace has a legit point. They were surprisingly poor today. Also, the pitch is looking flatter because of poor bowling. I can bet my bottom dollar that if Jimmy was up to it and at his best in terms of match time, SA would have been in a world of trouble. Amla and de Villiers were fed with back of a length and short stuff. AB was poor today to be honest. Amla has been a rock and huge props for his mental toughness but England just didn't 'get it up there' consistently enough. It was an impatient attack led by a defensive captain.

I'm not taking anything away from Amla, or for that matter ABDV, however, if England had clung on to there chances, it would have been a different game, and the pitch is obviously a batting pitch, or we wouldn't have seen so many runs!

I said before the match on this thread that I would not have selected Jimmy until he was 100% fit, and I would have kept Woakes in, as I believe it would have been another match in his development. A few people pointed out that he bowled through a spell in the nets in the first test so should be selected because he is much better than Woakes. Well bowling a spell in the nets is nothing to having to bowl in the SA sun over and over and being in the field.

England's bowling has been poor, yes, but I guess the 2 day turn around has been a hindrance, especially being over the festive period. However professional you may be, being away from your homeland over this period must be tough.

 

[stefan]

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the spirited show by SA and the innings by Amla. However is there really any plan here. Are they trying to win, or will they just keep this blocking session on for the next two days. SA should really get a move one here. Only one side can win this now, and that side is SA. 7 wickets in hand is no joke, get a move on. Score another 100 - 150 runs quickly and put England in.

SA can't lose this game now, England shouldn't either, but they are now the only side that can lose this test. There is not way there are enough overs to take 17 SA wickets, but 10 England wickets can fall in the 3rd innings if there is a collapse. Its unlikely, I know but SA, have to give it a shot. Get a move on, let England have a 50 run lead and put them in just before tea.

If England collapse great, SA in with a shot at winning. There is no risk for SA here. If England don't collapse, then there is no way they can build enough of a lead to feel comfortable asking SA to chase it down. Even if they do, England would have to bat till one hr past Lunch on the final day to do that. That will leave Eng the thankless task of getting 10 SA wickets in 1 and a half sessions on the final day.

SA have to push on here, if not now, then after tea for sure.

Think SA's aim after england big first innings is to make sure they go to joburg only 1 -0 with the series still alive and with the possibility of steyn and philander back.

I would like to see them go for it and have a bowl at england tonight but I doubt given the confidence levels that we will see that.

 

[RUDI]

Catches win matches! The only result here is a draw.

 

[PokerAce]

England are shattered physically, why are SA not forcing them to bat.

 

[dp458]

Will the runs of Morris, convince SA to play him as an allrounder and drop van zyl?

 

[Markkkkk]

Will the runs of Morris, convince SA to play him as an allrounder and drop van zyl?

No. If Van Zyl is dropped Cook is coming in. No other option. Dont speak about it, dont ruin my hope, please dont...