Grand Prix-F1

[Maxkarter]

How would you explain a grid of 16 karts with 1st to 16th being covered by one second in qualifying and having more lead swaps than in 5 F1 races in 15 laps?

 

[barmyarmy]

How would you explain a grid of 16 karts with 1st to 16th being covered by one second in qualifying and having more lead swaps than in 5 F1 races in 15 laps?

By them being karts rather than F1 cars.

 

[Sureshot]

Really a difficult circuit to overtake on shouldn't hamper a driver too much. This is my angle, I race karts, now if I decided that a circuit was difficult to overtake on each time I wouldnt be racing anymore, if you have the will to overtake you will get it right no matter how difficult it may be. Now I do understand that the characteristics of an F1 car make things slightly more different and harder but if the desire is there a pass WILL happen.

Yeh ok then. I've never raced but I've been involved with motorsport since I could first understand it.

No driver would've got past Schumi today in that slow bit.

There is no real long straight at Imola (bar maybe the main straight) but even that isn't that long. The Corners aren't wide enough to make daring moves into.

Plus remember Alonso didn't I think really push to his ultimate because 8 is better than none.

Imola is being revamped though and may be dropped, thankfully.

About time Italy only had one Grand Prix.

Oh and only Ferrari can get away with Team Orders.

 

[Maxkarter]

I think I said something along the lines of the two being very different, but I neglected to say that the aerodynamics are what causes the main problems with overtaking (wings and all cause turbulent air etc etc) but really in tight twist bits and along straights Alonso behind MS, KR behind FM showed that you can follow at close proximity without too much trouble, now all he needed to do was to take a dive lock up a wheel run MS wide and Bobs your uncle! He didnt have to do it because of his considerable championship lead at the moment but if the circumstances were different he could have quite easily pulled off a pass.

 

[barmyarmy]

Your disappointment gives me an impression that you aren?t a Ferrari fan.

I've never been a Ferrari fan but I don't much like Alonso either. I used to be a Williams or MacLaren fan back in the day but probably just cos they won a lot.
This season I honestly don't have a team, I like to see the British drivers do well and I still have a soft spot for the British teams but I don't care that much.
In terms of drivers the two I like most are probably JPM and baby Schumi.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Oh and only Ferrari can get away with Team Orders.

I haven't really got a problem with what they did today, it was proper team work. Massa didn't have a chance of winning, Michael did, fair enough in my book. It's when teams order one driver to move out the way of the other I have a real problem with, unless they are on completely different strategies or the other has a problem.

I stand by this. The only time a team should be punished is if a driver is told to move over for no real reason e.g. Barrichello in Austria in 2001 and 2002.

 

[barmyarmy]

but if the circumstances were different he could have quite easily pulled off a pass.

I respectfully disagree.
There's an arguement that there was no need to get past him before the final pit stop as he had a great chance of taking the lead through that but after it he still couldn't get past. This despite MS's pace being way below Alonso's.
Add that to the fact that Alonso has said in several interviews that he intends to be more aggressive this season. At the post-race he also said that "It's difficult to overtake if not impossible."
For me your statement is completely unsupportable.

 

[taimurasad]

Even when it was clear that Alonso could brake much later than MS, all Schumi had to do was cover the line into the corner and the chance was gone for another lap.

Credit to Schumi for doing it for as long as 32 laps and Alonso behind him kept on making mistakes.

Nowadays people just can?t bear a Ferrari or an MS victory. I thought what MS did today was awesome. He defended for about 32 laps with so much of pressure in front of thousands of Tifosi's with absolute brilliance. Had this been done by any other driver Kimi for instance, you guys would have gone mad in praising how well he defended etc.

 

[barmyarmy]

Credit to Schumi for doing it for as long as 32 laps and Alonso behind him kept on making mistakes.

Nowadays people just can?t bear a Ferrari or an MS victory. I thought what MS did today was awesome. He defended for about 32 laps with so much of pressure in front of thousands of Tifosi's with absolute brilliance. Had this been done by any other driver Kimi for instance, you guys would have gone mad in praising how well he defended etc.

To be fair I was criticising the sport not Michael Schumacher. I would have said exactly the same had an inferior car won the race from pole despite its lack of pace whoever was driving it.

 

[Maxkarter]

Most of his attempts were nothing short of half harted at best just putting in little dabbles, now if I could i'd get into that car and show him how it should be done, but I cant do that now can I? Fine at this point I have no real evidence to how easy it could have been (should have been) for that pass to be made, he quite obviously had better speed when he pulled out of the Ferrari's slipstream when he took a slightly odd line out of a corner to get a good run at MS but always backed out as he approached the corner. Another thing is Alonso looked more shaky than what I've ever seen him since he's left a Minardi while following MS so I dont think he had the head to even try the pass anyway. Alonso's race director actually made a huge mistake by bringing him in early since the Ferrari guys are no noobs at strategies, had Alonso actually waited until his scheduled stop which would have been after the Ferrari's one anyway he would have romped away with that race.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Credit to Schumi for doing it for as long as 32 laps and Alonso behind him kept on making mistakes.

Nowadays people just can?t bear a Ferrari or an MS victory. I thought what MS did today was awesome. He defended for about 32 laps with so much of pressure in front of thousands of Tifosi's with absolute brilliance. Had this been done by any other driver Kimi for instance, you guys would have gone mad in praising how well he defended etc.

Not at all, he deserves a lot of credit for keeping Alonso behind him, I was actually glad he won because I dislike Alonso more. However, the fact is the current aero rules do not really allow for close racing, Alonso didn't have the speed where he needed it (coming off the final chicane and down to Tamburello) which made it easier for MS. Australia was eventful, but wasn't full of overtaking. There have only been two GP's where there has been a lot of overtaking, Suzuka last year and Bahrain at the start of this season, that is two out of the last 23 races.

 

[barmyarmy]

Alonso's race director actually made a huge mistake by bringing him in early since the Ferrari guys are no noobs at strategies, had Alonso actually waited until his scheduled stop which would have been after the Ferrari's one anyway he would have romped away with that race.

Yup, I agree with you there. They panicked at the thought of getting backed up so far they'd end up in traffic.
He had the fuel and the pace although I don't think MS had to stop the next lap so we don't know exactly how many laps difference there was between them in terms of fuel.

On a slightly different note, what did everyone think of that Albers crash? It says a hell of a lot for how safe the cars are these days that the guy walked away without as much as a sore neck!

 

[Maxkarter]

On a slightly different note, what did everyone think of that Albers crash? It says a hell of a lot for how safe the cars are these days that the guy walked away without as much as a sore neck!

Other than the safety issue, it also shows how dangerous Yuji Ide has been this season leaving nothing but a wake of destruction behind, race after race. My point was heavily put forward on Maxmotorsport.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

On a slightly different note, what did everyone think of that Albers crash? It says a hell of a lot for how safe the cars are these days that the guy walked away without as much as a sore neck!

Certainly crash of the season so far! Hopefully it was the last nail in Ide's coffin. One thing that I don't think helped this race much was the TV director, there was hardly any coverage of the battles down the field, Montoya, Massa and Raikkonen were all covered by about 1.5 secs at the end!

 

[barmyarmy]

He's still not quite as bad as Ricardo Rosset who used to pay for his drive. I remember him reversing onto the track just after the tunnel at Monaco, straight into Jacques Villeneuve!

Certainly crash of the season so far! Hopefully it was the last nail in Ide's coffin. One thing that I don't think helped this race much was the TV director, there was hardly any coverage of the battles down the field, Montoya, Massa and Raikkonen were all covered by about 1.5 secs at the end!

Not to mention no pitlane radio etc.