ICC confirms 10 teams for next two World Cups

In summary, I'm in favor of reducing the number of teams as long as the associate nations have a fair chance of qualifying. For other development and a true "World Cup", Twenty20 is the way to go because it is short, exciting, easy to understand (comparatively) and won't constantly be made fun of by sports enthusiasts in other countries.

Two points:

1) That's the biggest issue at the moment, that Associates don't get a chance to qualify for the World Cup, but are locked out. 10 teams is okay as long as all of them have qualified to be there. Give the associates a shot.

2) The problem with spreading cricket via T20 is that you're gonna get a bunch of T20 specialists springing up in non-test nations. And what's the ultimate goal here? What are we trying to achieve? Are we going to just leave the associate nations as T20 specialists and limit their role in International cricket to just that, or are we trying to spread the game and get a larger fanbase to form, so that the nation will eventually become competitive in the proper formats (ODIs and FC).
If it's the first one, then that's just shutting out more than half the world from the full game, which is a disgrace. If you want to play Tests you already have to migrate to a test-nation; and now if you want to play ODIs and the World Cup you have to do the same again?
If it's the latter, then it's not going to work because at what point do you let them into the proper formats? When they're successful in T20s? Success in T20s relies on players good at T20 and such players are not guaranteed to do well in ODIs and FC games, and as such, promoting them to a higher level will not guarantee that they'll perform better than they already do. If anything, they'll perform worse, and you have the whole cycle repeating itself with people arguing that they aren't competitive and should be kicked out.

And to be fair, the logic that cricket will gain popularity by letting the nation play in T20 tournaments only is flawed in itself - popularity in T20 Cricket will grow, and no necessarily Cricket as a whole. And limiting a team to competing in just one format and just one Global tournament every 2 years (4 years?) isn't going to be enough to capture the imagination of casual fans.

Why not let Associates play in both the World Cup and T20 World Cup? Infact, if we are serious about spreading it, give them more tours and fixtures. Have the big nations visit and play them (or atleast send their A Teams). Have big teams play neutral fixtures in these grounds. Maybe fund them some-more.
The fact is that simply by letting more associates into the World T20 does NOT show you are intent on spreading the game. If you were truly intent on spreading Cricket in the world, we'd give Associates MORE games in ALL formats.


And to say cricket isn't dying is just ill-informed. It's already dying in the West Indies. Australia's generation of Greats are gone and as such, I guarantee you, a lot of youngsters will shift their attention to other sports where Australia is more dominant (or stuff like AFL). Who wants to support a losing side, let alone play for them one day?

The only places cricket is growing is Asia and possibly England.

And to add on to this - even if I'm wrong about cricket dying around the world, this move by the ICC does nothing to help it grow. Absolutely nothing. It just harms the growth in these countries because now youngsters have nothing to aim for apart from the World T20, which is widely accepted as a few rungs below Test and ODIs. Unless the ICC does a massive marketing shift to promote the World T20 as a flagship event in World Cricket, and in process demean the normal World Cup and ODIs in general, I don't see any cricket-enthusiastic youngster willing to put in as much effort or give up as much as current associate nation players do, because they don't have anything worth aiming for. If you can't, one day, through your struggles and efforts get to represent your nation in a World Cup...then what's the point? And not to mention sponsorship for these associate nations dwindling as a result of them not taking part in the most prestigious event in World Cricket anymore. The funds lost from that will definitely set development back a couple of years.

And incase we do start promoting the World T20 as the new Pinnacle of world cricket because it actually does include the whole World, and in the process turn the World Cup into a glorified Champions Trophy...well I don't have to explain how that is a bad move.


It's a Lose-Lose every way. There is not possible way to look at this decision and justify it as a good idea. It's just plain moronic, simple as that.
 
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Let me add to ZD's excellent observations.

The point is there's no guarantee that lesser number of teams will improve the quality of cricket.

In fact, I doubt you can have a format that guarantees 100% excitement or interest all the time.

The very nature of cricket, nay, sport, implies that you cannot control every aspect of the way a game or a tournament plays out.

The so-called minnows definitely add colour and interest in new up-coming talents and also evoke curiosity as to how they approach the game of cricket. Not having the associates in the World Cup will actually result in more predictability.

Take the England-Ireland game. It was a classic upset and a rare moment in World Cricket when a lesser team actually came from behind to win a match. Why would the ICC want to deny us those gems, rare though they might be?
 
Having just 10 teams in the next two WC is a great decision in my view. That will allow frequent tough competitions in the tournament which were a rare case in the previous two World Cups. I also support 1992 World Cup Format in the Next WC taking place in Australia
 
Full Member Status for the Irish Cricket Team - Petition Spot

Another petition for Full member status for Ireland. Why the hell not, they are better than Zimbies and Ban, two TEST nations.
There's an option for donation by paypal as well, but I don't know who that will go to? I'd donate if it were official Ireland board.

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Cricket: England try to gag Irish fury over exclusion - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

Hey England, why don't you tour Ireland instead of trying to shut them up and steal their players.
 
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Oh man, Owzat, looks like someone got their panties in a twist because they can't understand a joke.

T20 will get the wrong kind of fan, fad fans. If they're not interested in cricket for the bowling, batting, deliveries, strokes, tactics etc then they're not really interested at all. To watch cricket and be a fan you need to have a love for all aspects of the game, not just watch it because it is over quickly. T20 and ODIs may be relatively fast, but to a non enthusiast it is still quite a slow game, much derided by the small minded I may add, yet we're expecting to appeal to the small minded??!?
Who are you to decide who is a "right fan" or a "wrong fan". Last I checked you didn't own the right to who is allowed to enjoy cricket. People come and have a sook about "expanding the game" and then pretend that everyone in the world will be interested in a game that is mainly followed by nations where it was a grassroots sport.

Cricket is not boring over seven hours/five days unless it is a runfest or one-sided. The same is true of other formats.
How old are you? Do you have a job? Do you realize how difficult it is to follow a 7-hour game if you actually have a real life that you have to keep up with? There is a reason that sports such as soccer, basketball, hockey, American football, etc. are so popular. It's because you don't have to spend half your day watching it. It doesn't matter if its boring or interesting--it's still 7 hours.

The obvious mix-up you're having is that you're not able to differentiate between an existing market and an expansion market. An expansion market, where there is no grassroots cricket following, is not going to get hooked on a 7-hour game. Or Test cricket. They're going to become interested in a sport that they can digest in small chunks, like the other sports they are watching.

Big fail on the "my opinion is usually correct", because the tournament won't be (significantly) shorter. Each team plays the other = 45 games + 3 knockout games = 48 games in total compared to 2011's 49 games :rolleyes
I was not aware of the everyone-plays-everyone format. I was under the assumption that the format used would split the teams into two groups, which is what I believe the format should be.

There is still quite a gap between between levels within the Test nations at ODIs, unless the format is the risky 2007 format then you will still end up with the top teams in the top positions in the table - so effectively it should reflect the rankings.
In other news, grass is green and it is boring to watch paint dry.

The problem with the notion of qualifying is you may end up with a weaker side than Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and even West Indies 'fluking' their way through to the World Cup. If it is done as a durable qualifying process then I expect you'd end up with them anyway.
The ICC cup was a fairly durable process in determining who should qualify to the world cup--this was evidenced by the fact that it was typically the same teams that kept coming back (Netherlands, Scotland, Ireland, Kenya before they had ODI status, etc.). I believe back in the day there was a round-robin stage followed by a knockout stage. I wouldn't mind if the tournament was stretched out over the year leading up to the WC to make sure it accounted for injuries.

Your predisposition that West Indies and Zim would qualify is just a hunch based on averages. In reality, looking at the associates in this WC, it is possible that they would be able to challenge some of the Test nations consistently. At the very least, they'd gain experience of playing against teams on the next level.

I think the whole "qualifying" bandwagon that is gathering momentum is short-sighted. Sure Ireland are capable of causing an upset, but look what happened in 2007 when they got past Pakistan - the only other Test team they beat was Bangladesh. Point being they may be a lot of people's idea of "the team that deserves Test status" or "10th best team in the world", but they are some way off being any or much better than Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, it's just some people want them to do well (more than existing Test nations)
It's funny how you choose to use results from 4 years ago instead of 4 weeks ago. The Irish only really got blown out in their game against the Saffers. They may not have been in a winning position in every game, but they performed a lot better than associates performed 8-12 years ago--which shows that they are showing consistent, iterative improvement.

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I guarantee that 100% of this post is correct.

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The problem with spreading cricket via T20 is that you're gonna get a bunch of T20 specialists springing up in non-test nations. And what's the ultimate goal here? What are we trying to achieve? Are we going to just leave the associate nations as T20 specialists and limit their role in International cricket to just that, or are we trying to spread the game and get a larger fanbase to form, so that the nation will eventually become competitive in the proper formats (ODIs and FC).
The primary goal of Twenty20, for me, is to spread knowledge about the game. It is hard to envision becoming an ODI or FC cricketer straight off the bat (pun unintended) if you've never been exposed to the game. ODI/Test cricket has a reputation of being a "posh sport" where players take breaks for "tea" and "crumpets". That is obviously not the reality, but you're not going to break the stereotype by shoving 5-day cricket down the throats of non-grassroots followers.

It really comes down to this for me. If a country cannot generate enough interest to become semi-competitive at Twenty20 cricket, what hope do they have of prospering in 50-over or Test cricket? If the country cannot show that they are willing to get into a game that fits their timespans, then I don't think it's worth the investment to look for bigger things in there.

When they're successful in T20s? Success in T20s relies on players good at T20 and such players are not guaranteed to do well in ODIs and FC games, and as such, promoting them to a higher level will not guarantee that they'll perform better than they already do. If anything, they'll perform worse, and you have the whole cycle repeating itself with people arguing that they aren't competitive and should be kicked out.
I think the Bangladesh and Kenya experiments in Test/ODI respectively have shown that it is cricketing infrastructure that is at the root. If you don't have a proper infrastructure in place, you really have no hope of becoming a Test nation in the future. I advocate that the infrastructure is laid with Twenty20.

And to be fair, the logic that cricket will gain popularity by letting the nation play in T20 tournaments only is flawed in itself - popularity in T20 Cricket will grow, and no necessarily Cricket as a whole. And limiting a team to competing in just one format and just one Global tournament every 2 years (4 years?) isn't going to be enough to capture the imagination of casual fans.
I argue that a 7-hour/5-day game isn't going to capture the imagination of casual fans.

The fact is that simply by letting more associates into the World T20 does NOT show you are intent on spreading the game. If you were truly intent on spreading Cricket in the world, we'd give Associates MORE games in ALL formats.
I disagree. This is the kind of strategy that I would describe as banging one's head against the wall until one of them breaks. History has shown us that it is nigh impossible to create a strong Test team without grassroots. History has shown us that teams can be competitive in ODIs for short periods (without grassroots) but the lack of a proper infrastructure prevents them from being consistently competitive and taking the next step into Test cricket. What do you have to show for your theory that teams WILL improve and become solid Test nations? Nothing.

I'm perfectly happy being elitist with regards to Test cricket. It is a game that a very small percentage of the world will be excited about if they didn't grow up around it.

Twenty20 is an area that I think the future globalization of the game should be headed since it is easier to become competitive at that form of the game. Going in this direction leads us one thing to be wary about--Test nations losing interesting in Test cricket.

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With regards to the "cricket is dying" comments, you will notice that I did not prefix "cricket" with any specific form of the game. I think ODIs are dying and in fact I think in a few years ODIs won't really exist any more. Am I overly concerned about this? Not really. ODIs were a form of the game that were invented to regenerate interest in cricket when Test cricket was becoming too boring. Shortening from 30 hours of cricket to 7 was a massive improvement (not to mention that you could take just 1 day off work).

I think ODIs were very relevant in the previous generation where countries were still developing. Our global economy is in a very different stage now--where efficiency is at the core. Sports are obviously going to fall to the wayside unless they reinvent themselves to be applicable to the reality of the situation. ODIs succeeded at what their goal was--keeping the interest in cricket intact. That is now a responsibility of Twenty20 cricket, imo.

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In summary, my arguments are:

1. Keep Test cricket elitist since there is no historical evidence that a team can become competitive from scratch.

2. Use Twenty20 cricket as the vehicle to look at the game for the rest of the world.

3. Keep the ODI format around for a few more years until it dies a natural death. But don't siphon off the associates. If they show real improvement that I possibly thought was impossible (signs exist with pretty much just the Irish) then there may be an argument to keep ODI cricket around for longer.
 
3. Keep the ODI format around for a few more years until it dies a natural death. But don't siphon off the associates. If they show real improvement that I possibly thought was impossible (signs exist with pretty much just the Irish) then there may be an argument to keep ODI cricket around for longer.

Ireland, Netherlands are the nations that have shown good potential for ODI. What has ICC done to help them though? Where are the ODI tours for them? For Afghanistan? How do you expect countries to show interest in ODI's in the first place if ICC keeps this elitist attitude up with associates?

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Oh and btw, anybody know how many matches India won in the world cup before 1983? And if Ireland did better, same, worse in 2011?

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I think ODIs were very relevant in the previous generation where countries were still developing. Our global economy is in a very different stage now--where efficiency is at the core. Sports are obviously going to fall to the wayside unless they reinvent themselves to be applicable to the reality of the situation. ODIs succeeded at what their goal was--keeping the interest in cricket intact. That is now a responsibility of Twenty20 cricket, imo.

Wait

If I had to chose one between no ODI's and global T20.

And ODI's, T20 and Tests co existing in just a handful of nations. I'll pick the latter.

I understand your point. But if you're saying ODI has to die for cricket to spread, then the same has to be true for Test cricket.

Either that, or people all over the world can realize that this is just what cricket is. Long ass games but rewarding, not intended to be watched all on TV either but followed on the web. And people can accept that, and cricket can STILL spread in ODI forms. I've talked to Americans about the length of a cricket match. And most of them have said that they would love to kick back and watch a full game on a Sunday with some beer.

Cricket in just T20 is gonna suck ass even if it becomes more popular than soccer.
 
1000% agree with Sohum here.
 
I dont mind the WC to be of a 10 team tournament, just that there should be a qualification route. Maybe one that involves all the 10 teams, this way despite a few mismatches, associates will start playing the Full Members more often and it will help them get some experience.

Or even if you get the top 6-8 nations going through automatically. To give the Windies a free route is debtateable, but I personally would want them to get direct qualification for the next one. The thing is a year back same was being said of Pakistan, and they ended up in the semis. I think the Windies have the potential to do the same, so I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
[/COLOR]Cricket: England try to gag Irish fury over exclusion - Other Sports, Sport - Independent.ie

Hey England, why don't you tour Ireland instead of trying to shut them up and steal their players.

this is just pathetic. when you consider how much the asian teams did to help bangladesh qualify for test status (I read an article on their qualification for the 1999 and one of their key players said they felt that had to so as not to let down india and sri lanka for constantly sending teams over and helping set up their infastructure) why can't england do the same for ireland?
 
T20 is a joke and an apology for cricket. International T20 is pointless and should be banned.

People in the ICC or anywhere else arguing for T20 as a "vehicle for the growth of cricket" are using T20 to basically exclude other formats of the game from associate nations.

No matter how this is argued, this is what it comes down to and I'm sorry to say that it's downright elitist.
 
I don't think it is a joke to say that T20 is the best way we can grow the game. It is IMO the best way we can spread the game, as the 3 hour format just works. Plus it has the glitz and the shabang that can attract newer audiences. But to go in only with that is wrong imo. And it is unfair to cut countries like Ireland and Holland who have shown that they have the capability to become competitive teams in the longer formats from the WORLD CUP. The upsets make the world cup so great - Ireland tipping England and Pakistan, Kenya coming to the Semis...it is the beauty of the world event. This is just stupid.
 
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I don't think it is a joke to say that T20 is the best way we can grow the game. It is IMO the best way we can spread the game, as the 3 hour format just works. Plus it has the glitz and the shabang that can attract newer audiences. But to go in only with that is wrong imo. And it is unfair to cut countries like Ireland and Holland who have shown that they have the capability to become competitive teams in the longer formats from the WORLD CUP. The upsets make the world cup so great - Ireland tipping England and Pakistan, Kenya coming to the Semis...it is the beauty of the world event. This is just stupid.

Agreed, but T20 is a joke and nothing more than a match created exclusively for big sponsors and for ticket collection.

As a curiosity and a glamour event it is fine, but I don't think it is a vehicle for long-term growth of cricket in associate nations. One cannot become a good cricketer playing only the T20 game.

Cricket is all about the mental aspect, strategies and captaincy as well as skill which is only tested in the longer versions.
 
T20 is good for increasing the fan base for cricket but it does nothing for the players. Bowling 4 overs and smacking the ball around for 20 overs isn't going to help you for the pinnacle of our game.
 
Yep - use T20 to get the average idiot aware of cricket, but use the money from that to start some proper cricket programmes.

I don't give a rat's that Ireland isn't in the next World Cup to be honest, I'm far more annoyed that England keeps pinching their players and that they don't get enough good first class matches. I'd like to see some 'A' teams have a 'Test' series with Ireland - that would be a good place to start. Whining over not being in the WC is not helpful really.
 
Yep - use T20 to get the average idiot aware of cricket, but use the money from that to start some proper cricket programmes.

I don't give a rat's that Ireland isn't in the next World Cup to be honest, I'm far more annoyed that England keeps pinching their players and that they don't get enough good first class matches. I'd like to see some 'A' teams have a 'Test' series with Ireland - that would be a good place to start. Whining over not being in the WC is not helpful really.

To be fair discussing matches, what captains should have done, who's the better player, best all time XI, whether rules need changing or not, who should have been picked...none of it's useful really :p

Doesn't mean we stop.

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@Sohum

It really comes down to this for me. If a country cannot generate enough interest to become semi-competitive at Twenty20 cricket, what hope do they have of prospering in 50-over or Test cricket? If the country cannot show that they are willing to get into a game that fits their timespans, then I don't think it's worth the investment to look for bigger things in there.
But I'd like to counter this with what do you do about nations that have proven themselves competitive at ODI level - IE Ireland and Netherlands. Kenya once upon a time, Canada have a future with all their young talent. They also have a fanbase who shows enough interest in it. By restricting their global appearances to just T20s, it sets their development back several years.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if the World Cup became a Test-Nation only farce and the World T20 was the real global event (even though I think ODIs is a better test of a player than T20) - as long as these Associates got more game time in FC/OD fixtures to make up for the global exposure and experience they lose from not playing ODIs.


I think the Bangladesh and Kenya experiments in Test/ODI respectively have shown that it is cricketing infrastructure that is at the root. If you don't have a proper infrastructure in place, you really have no hope of becoming a Test nation in the future. I advocate that the infrastructure is laid with Twenty20.
I'd advocate an infrastructure is laid with all three formats. If not all three, then T20 and some sort of FC. An infrastructure on T20 or Thirty30 alone (such as those found in UAE and Hong Kong) will lead to no where. You need some proper, substantial cricket to encourage the development of a higher caliber of cricketer worthy of international level.
Although if we are going into a completely new, cricket-devoid nation, then I agree with you. However my discussion is based on the Associates who are already currently doing well - such as Ireland, Netherlands, Scotland, Afghanistan, Canada, Kenya, etc.


3. Keep the ODI format around for a few more years until it dies a natural death. But don't siphon off the associates. If they show real improvement that I possibly thought was impossible (signs exist with pretty much just the Irish) then there may be an argument to keep ODI cricket around for longer.
I'm just using this to sum up your third point because the rest is too long to quote.

This is something we're going to agree to disagree on. My main premise is that Test and ODI cricket are the main fundamentals of the sport at the moment, and T20 is just an extra format for fun/casual fans/club league structures/spreading the game. But not one to be taken seriously.
You on the other hand don't mind ODIs dying and T20s taking their place.

I foresee a future where we have more teams in the world capable of playing Test cricket, even if it's in a Division-structure (because sides like India/England/Australia/South Africa/Sri Lanka and Pakistan are always going to be way, way stronger given how tightly cricket is wound into their culture). And for that what I feel the ICC should be doing, in order to spread it, should be helping these nation set up an domestic structure along with giving them a lot of global exposure, as much as possible, in order to catch the public's imagination.
Use T20, by all means, but also give them FC games and a chance in the World Cup - so that the existing fanbase and talent pool have something to look forward too, and any new fans attracted by the T20 and who want to learn more about cricket can seamlessly shift to supporting their nation in the the other more serious formats.

What you foresee, however, is spreading cricket by T20, getting new nations to play T20 only for a while, and if the interest and talent is their, let them into the other formats.

What I would argue is that while your method is excellent in spreading cricket to nations who don't know it well at all, what it does is essentially set back development in nations where a decent sized fanbase and talent pool already exists - ie Ireland, Kenya, Canada. Infact, removing them from the World Cup will actually make them lose a lot of their fanbase AND a lot of their talent, as the World Cup was one of the biggest draws for fans/biggest incentives for cricketers to continue playing. And that's why I think this decision is a big mistake.

I'd say carry on with spreading the game via T20...no problem. Just don't, for the love of God, cut them from the World Cup.

Competitiveness isn't a huge issue because face it, West Indies, BD and Zim are barely competitive anyways. You get a lot of one-sided games even with the Test sides, a few more won't always hurt. And seeing the minnow players - youngsters with talent, the middle-aged man with a part time job turning out for his country, the former test player showing up for an associate...these are some the things we look forward to (or atleast I look forward to) in a World Cup. Their passion, dedication and talent deserves to be rewarded and deserves to be shown.
The number of matches in the WC isn't being significantly reduced either. And finally it's supposed to be the World Cup, the whole principal is that the World is invited. This makes it a glorified Champions Trophy (with the supposed 10 best teams in the world), and makes the World T20 the new pinnacle of the sport.

I think ODIs > T20s, so that idea sounds horrible to me. But you don't mind it, so I guess that point isn't valid with you.
 
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