India tour of South Africa - 2013/14

[vaibhavtewatia]

@Aalay Abhishek Nayar is just like a sub standard version of Joginder Sharma in bowling. Has taken most of his wickets on green turfs like him, and hardly makes the ball bounce. Though he hasn't had much oppurtunities with the bat at International level, but don't really think of him to make any impact in Tests outside India.

 

[Aalay]

Abhishek Nayar is a military medium bowler who bowls dibbly-dobblies. His FC batting average is also inflated by playing on some very flat pitches. He has a very limited technique with a crouch that is geared towards playing big shots at the end of a limited overs innings. I think he would be found out by the short ball.

Haven't seen too much of Rishi Dhawan.

Even though he bowl military medium, he still has pretty impressive bowling average in FC. he has played before for India in ODI's in that 2009 season but didn't have much success at that time. I agree about him batting on flat tracks which helps him increase his average but we need to give him chance to see if he is worth taking a risk or not. As we know that in last 2 years, they have created some helpful pitches all around the India. Rishi Dhawan as I said in my last post is a bowling all-rounder. His batting still needs bit of improvement but his bowling is surely good enough. He bowls in mid 130's.

 

[playkid12]

It's obvious you didn't watch this game.

Strange accusation, especially considering that I was replying in this thread during the game with my emotions of the things that were unfolding.

Draw is still part of the game. And it was by no means a foregone conclusion until the last two overs.

That's exactly the point I was making. It was a good game until the last two overs, which were probably the biggest letdown that I've witnessed in sports after such an amazing contest for 4 days. If SA would've still tried to chase it down while India attacked them, I would've not felt let down. If It would've resulted in a draw despite them trying, I wouldn't have felt let down. However, I personally feel that just playing out the last two overs the way SA did should really be looked down on. It's poor, cowardice cricket. In my opinion, it's as bad as Mankading or deliberately affecting the surface of the ball.

And we watch Test cricket for more than results - we watch it for the skills involved

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think we should set the bar a little higher and look down on deliberate draws especially in situations where winning was a very real possibility.

Continue watching the slam-bang format of the game if you're so keen on results. In the meantime, true Test cricket fans will still savour this game in spite of the draw.

Don't get your knickers in a twist and create strawman fallacies to beat them down. It's a really poor form of discussion.

 

[War]

Also the BCCI's fault we didn't have a 7 match ODI series that we truly deserved!

7 match ODI series should be banned. A 5 match series would have been enough for these two teams.

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Welcome back War. Are you a little surprised that India are yet to lose a test at Jo`burg. They nearly won in 1997 where SA were 8 down and it rained on the final day, won by a big margin in 2006 and now this test match. Perplexing because many argue that the Jo`burg test match wicket is the toughest in SA. Also, lets give the Indian side its due. Most teams in recent times have come down to SA and been blown away by their pace attack. Australia for all their documented 'skills' against pace bowling got bowled out for 40 odd and Pakistan did similarly well. The heartening part of this Indian performance is not the runs but the intent. You may say that only Kohli and Pujara stood up but if you watched the test match many others did too without reflecting too much on the scores. Vijay occupied the crease long enough for the new ball to lose its sting in both the innings. He was looking really comfortable in the 2nd innings till he was out caught down the leg side. Rahane, in the first innings displayed immense maturity as well and does`nt look out of place at all. A test match like this would have been a wonderful training ground for these men and I`m now confident that our transition will be smoother than most sides.

Our bowling looked far more potent than anyone gave it credit for showing that they are`nt pushovers in helpful conditions.

Ye ha, i sort of didn't realize India's record at Jo'Burg in tests since 1997. I knew they did well in certain grounds in S Africa in the last decade, but i presumed it was at different grounds in the country.

When i say only stood up, i meant Kohli & Pujara showed the non-asian batsman tendencies of looking totally comfortable in the foreign conditions. Vijay & Rahane as you rightfully said, showed showed good intent, but they still have more holes in their game than Pujara/Kohli - that obviously we will know more about in upcoming India overseas tests this year.

Rahane in particular in his first test in a unusual # 6 position, after playing a few ODIs as an opener - was a unknown quantity. I personally wasn't sure what the strengths of his game was & i wonder if the S Africa's knew either - but of course, as he plays more - we will know more about him.

Also no doubt IND deserve much due, although S Africa showed why the are # 1 to get themselves into a position to win, IND dominated most of the match surprisingly & they deserve much credit for this - especially given the doom predictions they had before this match.

With England going true transition now & AUS potentially showing signs of revival, i see 2014 being a close test match battle for the # 2 spot between IND/AUS/ENG.

 

[harishankar]

Strange accusation, especially considering that I was replying in this thread during the game with my emotions of the things that were unfolding.

If you did watch the game, how does the last two overs ruin the entire game?

That's exactly the point I was making. It was a good game until the last two overs, which were probably the biggest letdown that I've witnessed in sports after such an amazing contest for 4 days. If SA would've still tried to chase it down while India attacked them, I would've not felt let down. If It would've resulted in a draw despite them trying, I wouldn't have felt let down. However, I personally feel that just playing out the last two overs the way SA did should really be looked down on. It's poor, cowardice cricket. In my opinion, it's as bad as Mankading or deliberately affecting the surface of the ball.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think we should set the bar a little higher and look down on deliberate draws especially in situations where winning was a very real possibility.

Don't get your knickers in a twist and create strawman fallacies to beat them down. It's a really poor form of discussion.

I think you are doing an injustice to both teams here. Neither could afford a loss after such efforts over 5 days. Especially India who dominated days 3 and 4. To lose after setting a target of 458 in the last innings and have the dubious record of being in a world record losing side?

Also I think what most viewers don't consider is that both teams were probably mentally and physically exhausted at that stage. Again 16 runs in 3 overs might not sound much in an ODI situation, but then you had only the tail enders to come and only Philander looking good enough to score those runs without much risk... Sure SA had the best chance of winning, but India had a duty to save the game and bowled accordingly.

Neither team wanted to lose and played accordingly. The possibility of Draw adds an extra dimension to the game.

 

[surendar]

Plus, all it takes to change a match was one more wicket that would have put SA into situation of a loss.

Reason why I referred that chennai test match was - all it took for India to go from winning situation to a loss was just TEN minutes with we ended up loosing 4 wickets for 17 runs.

Claiming as coward & disgrace and all doesn't make any logical meaning to the feel which this SA match created in us. For me, definitely one of the classy matches.

 

[Epic]

7 match ODI series should be banned. A 5 match series would have been enough for these two teams.

C'mon now, you know full well how I feel about ODIs in general.

 

[scratch978]

I made a separate thread(a poll) for this question 'Your opinion', but the idea flopped.. So I am asking in this thread itself:- (Do give your suggestions)

Do you think South Africa will go with an all-pace attack in the second and final Test against India in Durban?

Keep three possibilities in mind while answering:-

1) Imran Tahir(spinner) was ineffective at the Wanderers. Also, Kingsmead is traditionally regarded as one of the fastest pitches in the world.

2) They would need to include a spinner to add variety to their attack.

3) Kyle Abbott(fast bowler) might be a good addition to the eleven but the attack might get too one-dimensional.

 

[SaiSrini]

Kingsmead is not expected to be fast. Pitch reports from Cricinfo say that the pitch is going to be slow, and should take turn in the last 2 days.

I am very sure Dhoni will persist with Ashwin and maybe rightly so. I dont see India making any changes to their XI, as the combination we have from Jo'burg is good enough. We could possibly rest a fast bowler and bring in Yadav, but all 3 of Zak, Ishant and Shami did very well in Jo'burg which makes it impossible to rest any one of them, more so Zak who is absolutely needed due to his experience.

 

[lion100lion]

Kingsmead is not expected to be fast. Pitch reports from Cricinfo say that the pitch is going to be slow, and should take turn in the last 2 days.

Yes, you are right. Durban pitch has changed over the years..
As Graeme Smith said in the press conference today,
'Kingsmead track has lost its earlier character of being a pacer's haven, post the T20 boom. It's much slower now, making it a little easier for the batsmen.'
Also, the spinners have had a good run in Durban in recent years. So it will keep them interested..

I think the option number 2 will be great for SA..

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

SAF have lost their last 4 matches at kingsmead. australia, england, india and south africa.

on the last 3 occassions spinners have taken significant hauls.

means Tahir will probably keep his place but also makes it a huge match for ashwin, he has to start doing damage outside india and this is a wicket he'll need to perform well on.

 

[SaiSrini]

It seems India is pondering about the inclusion of Ravindra Jadeja in place of a batsman. Considering that the pitch looks very dry and suited for spinners, it makes sense to bring in Jadeja who can also bat a bit in place of either Rahane or Rohit Sharma. I would personally keep Ashwin in the side. If Rohit Sharma can be given enough chances before he started clicking, Ashwin can be given half as many chances overseas. Ashwin has Kumble for inspiration. Kumble was very ineffective overseas for a major part of his early career. It was only in 2002-03 (12 years into his career) that he started changing that tide overseas.

I think the XI for India will most likely be (though I prefer Rahane over Rohit):

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rohit
Dhoni
Jadeja
Ashwin
Zaheer
Ishant
Shami

 

[Epic]

We need the extra batsman if you ask me, and as long as the lone spinner has something to work with, a 4-man attack works, so unchanged for me.

 

[surendar]

Jadeja would be a good addon to gamble with due to his left arm action. He might be handy on slow conditions, who knows on last 2 days, he might turn the tables in better speed than Ashwin.

 

[scratch978]

Ravindra jadeja can replace Rahane. That's OK, considering the track.

But Dhoni's biggest tension will be whether to choose Ashwin or Ojha.