India Vs Australia 2007/8 Race Row

[Cricketman]

Harbhajan Singh hit Brett Lee for four and tapped Brett Lee on the arse. It is a slightly derogatory but not malicious gesture. It is the equivalent of "better luck next time", but delivered in a smarmy way.

Andrew Symonds, always up for an arguement, interpreted Harbhajan's tap as a sign of physical agression and shouted something (I have not found information as to what this it).

Harbhajan Singh takes offense to the remark and calls Symonds over. The two exchange heated words with Harbhajan Singh calling Symonds a monkey. I believe that there was intention to offend here, but he did not realise the significence of the phrase, he just understands it as an insult toward black people.

Ricky Ponting asks Symonds what was said and Symonds mentions the word 'monkey'. Symonds is 'smarting' but not highly offended by the remark. However, Ponting finds an opportunity to eliminate his number one rival by crying to some visibly weak umpires and takes it and reports the issue.

Mike Proctor sees no proof that Harbhajan called Symonds a monkey but yet concludes that Harbhajan probably did say it. Consequently, following the no tolerance policy on racism, Harbhajan gets a three match ban.

Spot on. This is exactly what I feel has happened, just give me proof!

 

[barmyarmy]

I'm going to post something controversial that in no way reflects the considered view of the planetcricket management etc etc...

I think part of the problem here is an Aussie attitude of "no-one beats up on my little brother except me". Australia has an appalling record when it comes to respecting difference on the grounds of race. The aborgine population are one of the worst treated of any indigenous population in a former colony and I have seen some horrendous attitudes displayed by white Australians towards outsiders both when I was over there and have heard of others from my friends. I'm not for one moment saying that everyone in Australia is racist nor am I saying that everyone in Britain is multi-culturally aware, I'm suggesting that the indignation being summoned here comes from a situation where Australians can feel smug about tackling racism as it wasn't perpetrated by a white Australian to start with. The zealotry of the convert is a terrifying force.
Thus when Hogg racially abuses an Indian player or when fans at the MCG start "racist" chants some in Australia are prepared to turn a blind eye when those are the very people who are standing up now and shouting loudest. Racism is deplorable and the world would be a better place if we could rid it of it but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Is Australia's inherent guilt over its own shady past (and present) causing this to exponentialise? (if that can be made into a verb)
Just some thoughts that no doubt will offend some although I assure you that is not my intention.

 

[jordox]

I'm going to post something controversial that in no way reflects the considered view of the planetcricket management etc etc...

I think part of the problem here is an Aussie attitude of "no-one beats up on my little brother except me". Australia has an appalling record when it comes to respecting difference on the grounds of race. The aborgine population are one of the worst treated of any indigenous population in a former colony and I have seen some horrendous attitudes displayed by white Australians towards outsiders both when I was over there and have heard of others from my friends. I'm not for one moment saying that everyone in Australia is racist nor am I saying that everyone in Britain is multi-culturally aware, I'm suggesting that the indignation being summoned here comes from a situation where Australians can feel smug about tackling racism as it wasn't perpetrated by a white Australian to start with. The zealotry of the convert is a terrifying force.
Thus when Hogg racially abuses an Indian player or when fans at the MCG start "racist" chants some in Australia are prepared to turn a blind eye when those are the very people who are standing up now and shouting loudest. Racism is deplorable and the world would be a better place if we could rid it of it but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Is Australia's inherent guilt over its own shady past (and present) causing this to exponentialise? (if that can be made into a verb)
Just some thoughts that no doubt will offend some although I assure you that is not my intention.

First you call Brad Hogg a racist for calling one a b**tard, then you say the chant "where's your visa" is racist.. You do know that the Australian crowds used that chant against the South African team also, but nooo, it wasn't racist then because the majority of the SA team is white, so there is no big deal, but once the same old joke is used to an Indian, that's it. RACIST CHANTS :

Then, to prove your point that you think Australians are generally pretty racist, you bring up the whole 'aboriginal' thing and say "The indigenous aboriginals are one of the worst treated in a formal colony, ect.." Yep you're right they were badly treated, although I don't know why you are posting this because the people who treated them badly lived 200 years ago, and they were English people. Care to give us some examples in today's society of how Aborginal's are treated badly, and no, your straw man argument of "when I was in Australia the people there all hated Aboriginals" wont work here.

The only racism involved in this whole test was, if he did say it, Harbhajan's 'monkey' incident to Symonds, thats it, don't try and call the chants racist because they weren't racist when South Africa were in Australia.

 

[NuttyBrown]

I'm going to post something controversial that in no way reflects the considered view of the planetcricket management etc etc...

I think part of the problem here is an Aussie attitude of "no-one beats up on my little brother except me". Australia has an appalling record when it comes to respecting difference on the grounds of race. The aborgine population are one of the worst treated of any indigenous population in a former colony and I have seen some horrendous attitudes displayed by white Australians towards outsiders both when I was over there and have heard of others from my friends. I'm not for one moment saying that everyone in Australia is racist nor am I saying that everyone in Britain is multi-culturally aware, I'm suggesting that the indignation being summoned here comes from a situation where Australians can feel smug about tackling racism as it wasn't perpetrated by a white Australian to start with. The zealotry of the convert is a terrifying force.
Thus when Hogg racially abuses an Indian player or when fans at the MCG start "racist" chants some in Australia are prepared to turn a blind eye when those are the very people who are standing up now and shouting loudest. Racism is deplorable and the world would be a better place if we could rid it of it but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Is Australia's inherent guilt over its own shady past (and present) causing this to exponentialise? (if that can be made into a verb)
Just some thoughts that no doubt will offend some although I assure you that is not my intention.

I can see where your coming from, just to clear up a bit in brief do you mean 'What comes around goes around' that sort of thing?

 

[barmyarmy]

First you call Brad Hogg a racist for calling one a b**tard, then you say the chant "where's your visa" is racist.. You do know that the Australian crowds used that chant against the South African team also, but nooo, it wasn't racist then because the majority of the SA team is white, so there is no big deal, but once the same old joke is used to an Indian, that's it. RACIST CHANTS :

A few points I want to address here.
I put racist in inverted commas for a reason as I didn't consider the chanting to be anything like the nature of what has happened in the past.

Care to give us some examples in today's society of how Aborginal's are treated badly

I really can and the UN human rights committee agrees with me. If you want to me to start listing some of the things the Howard government did I will but I'd need some time to research it properly as it might take a while.

and no, your straw man argument of "when I was in Australia the people there all hated Aboriginals" wont work here.

Not what I said. I've lived in New Zealand as well and attitude towards the Maori is totally different. I have both friends and relatives in Australia and it's common knowledge that a/ the treatment of aborigines in a shocking embarrassment and b/ Australians get very touchy whenever it is brought up.

I can see where your coming from, just to clear up a bit in brief do you mean 'What comes around goes around' that sort of thing?

I'm saying that now Australia is belatedly and slowly getting its own house in order they're reacting far more strongly to someone racially abusing one of their own.

 

[jordox]

A few points I want to address here.
I put racist in inverted commas for a reason as I didn't consider the chanting to be anything like the nature of what has happened in the past.



I really can and the UN human rights committee agrees with me. If you want to me to start listing some of the things the Howard government did I will but I'd need some time to research it properly as it might take a while.



Not what I said. I've lived in New Zealand as well and attitude towards the Maori is totally different. I have both friends and relatives in Australia and it's common knowledge that a/ the treatment of aborigines in a shocking embarrassment and b/ Australians get very touchy whenever it is brought up.

The UN human rights agree with you? Haha. C'mon, I'm waiting, I want some down right political proof that the Aboriginals are treated poorly. For once, they get extra money whilst on the doll than a white person, for two they need a lesser mark to get qualifications than a white person and there are hundreds, literally benefits they get to make amends for something your people did. That's a good idea, dump your rubbish in Australia, terrorise the natives and build a platform for a society riddled with racism, leave and then 200 years later sit back and call them racist. Love it.

And stop making straw man arguments, my brother lives in England, I'm sure I could ring him and ask him for the names of at least 20 racists, then say "yep, get this my brother lives in England, he knows 20 racist out of the very few people he knows, but the funny thing is, when I was in the US, I never knew one racist" See how this goes? It's stupid.

I'm sick of all these people calling the word 'b**tard' racist, and simple chants racist. You wanna know what real racism is? I've seen people shot for being the 'wrong colour', thats racism not all this "Where is your visa" stuff. I'm sorry, but I don't like what you are doing here, you are calling people racist for just plain insulting someone and then as 'proof' that they are racist you make a straw man argument that I can't even argue against.

 

[Will_NA]

The UN human rights agree with you? Haha. C'mon, I'm waiting, I want some down right political proof that the Aboriginals are treated poorly. For once, they get extra money whilst on the doll than a white person, for two they need a lesser mark to get qualifications than a white person and there are hundreds, literally benefits they get to make amends for something your people did. That's a good idea, dump your rubbish in Australia, terrorise the natives and build a platform for a society riddled with racism, leave and then 200 years later sit back and call them racist. Love it.

And stop making straw man arguments, my brother lives in England, I'm sure I could ring him and ask him for the names of at least 20 racists, then say "yep, get this my brother lives in England, he knows 20 racist out of the very few people he knows, but the funny thing is, when I was in the US, I never knew one racist" See how this goes? It's stupid.

I'm sick of all these people calling the word 'b**tard' racist, and simple chants racist. You wanna know what real racism is? I've seen people shot for being the 'wrong colour', thats racism not all this "Where is your visa" stuff. I'm sorry, but I don't like what you are doing here, you are calling people racist for just plain insulting someone and then as 'proof' that they are racist you make a straw man argument that I can't even argue against.

I think the question is, why does your brother hang out with so many racists?

 

[jordox]

I think the question is, why does your brother hang out with so many racists?

Well done, you completely got the point I was trying to make. He makes comments like that, I can easily say to him "when you were in NZ you were friends with nicer people and when you were in Australia you were in the wrong crowd" but there is no point because it is a straw man argument, and it's stupid. Because then he could respond "No more people are racist in Australia' and it just goes in circle, all the while he is probably lying.

 

[Supershtuffthat]

:

Then, to prove your point that you think Australians are generally pretty racist, you bring up the whole 'aboriginal' thing and say "The indigenous aboriginals are one of the worst treated in a formal colony, ect.." Yep you're right they were badly treated, although I don't know why you are posting this because the people who treated them badly lived 200 years ago, and they were English people. Care to give us some examples in today's society of how Aborginal's are treated badly, and no, your straw man argument of "when I was in Australia the people there all hated Aboriginals" wont work here.

The only racism involved in this whole test was, if he did say it, Harbhajan's 'monkey' incident to Symonds, thats it, don't try and call the chants racist because they weren't racist when South Africa were in Australia.

Well I work and pretty much live in the Western Australian outback town of Newman and I can tell you from first hand accounts that Australia is still a disgustingly racist country. It ashames me the attitude the people around here have.

Racism is alive in this country. And finally somethings cracked.

Plus I beleive that the ICC is totally incompotent. Look at the World Cup, the Indian League, drugs, the dominance of one team ruining the game, betting scandals, the fall of the Zimbabwe cricket team, the lack of development of the minnw nations, the fact that Aus, India and England play 3 times more test cricket than anyone else, the fact that the West Indies have no real domestic competition and people wonder why they are so bad. The ICC is a farce.Money is all they care about. Shame shame shame.

I'm going to post something controversial that in no way reflects the considered view of the planetcricket management etc etc...

IThus when Hogg racially abuses an Indian player or when fans at the MCG start "racist" chants some in Australia are prepared to turn a blind eye when those are the very people who are standing up now and shouting loudest. Racism is deplorable and the world would be a better place if we could rid it of it but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Is Australia's inherent guilt over its own shady past (and present) causing this to exponentialise? (if that can be made into a verb)
Just some thoughts that no doubt will offend some although I assure you that is not my intention.

The fact that the Cricket Australia and the ICC turn a blind eye IS racism.

 

[jordox]

Well I work and pretty much live in the Western Australian outback town of Newman and I can tell you from first hand accounts that Australia is still a disgustingly racist country. It ashames me the attitude the people around here have.

Racism is alive in this country. And finally somethings cracked.

Plus I beleive that the ICC is totally incompotent. Look at the World Cup, the Indian League, drugs, the dominance of one team ruining the game, betting scandals, the fall of the Zimbabwe cricket team, the lack of development of the minnw nations, the fact that Aus, India and England play 3 times more test cricket than anyone else, the fact that the West Indies have no real domestic competition and people wonder why they are so bad. The ICC is a farce.Money is all they care about. Shame shame shame.



The fact that the Cricket Australia and the ICC turn a blind eye IS racism.

Mate, the fall of the Zimbabwe cricket team was coming since I was living there. ICC did the right thing, Mugabe is the cause of it and good on the ICC for not sticking it's head into the problems of a dictator.

 

[prarara]

I think this is the best opinion on the matter. Something both sides can agree to, and something that we should agree to compromise on.

If he did, it was intemperate, insulting, impolitic, too. Symonds had the right to expect better from a fellow professional than from a mindless crowd. Harbhajan said he was sorely provoked. The Australians said he had a history. Both doubtlessly are true.

But did it warrant the throwing of the whole anti-racism book at Harbhajan? Did this walnut need a sledgehammer?

Cricket is right to be on the alert for racism, and even must make an example of an offender. But it must be the right example, the right offender.

Really, this ought to have been sorted out on the field, between players, captains and umpires.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/crick...t-of-proportion/2008/01/06/1199554486296.html

Let the healing begin.

 

[Cricketman]

Dude, its pretty clear from some of the posts we see on this forum, the way your press publishes racist and offensive material, and the way that some Aussies act that racism is well and alive in Australia.
Not saying all are, but it certainly is quite disgusting to see the sheer number of intolerable people living down under.

At work, my dad was the leader of his division in the Kellogg Company (you know, the one that makes ur morning cereals) He was told by someone under him, someone who gets paid because of him, to "go back to your mud house".
He was fired the next day.

Even at school, when I was six years old, I was told I was a "Stupid monkey" from the teachers. Normally, I dont think this is offensive at all, simply "fun". Only after coming here and reading the posts do I realize the spite in which it was said. I dont really care about that though, but seeing the way Symonds acts when people call him that, I guess its a pretty bad insult down there.

 

[smssia0112]

I'm going to post something controversial that in no way reflects the considered view of the planetcricket management etc etc...

I think part of the problem here is an Aussie attitude of "no-one beats up on my little brother except me". Australia has an appalling record when it comes to respecting difference on the grounds of race. The aborgine population are one of the worst treated of any indigenous population in a former colony and I have seen some horrendous attitudes displayed by white Australians towards outsiders both when I was over there and have heard of others from my friends. I'm not for one moment saying that everyone in Australia is racist nor am I saying that everyone in Britain is multi-culturally aware, I'm suggesting that the indignation being summoned here comes from a situation where Australians can feel smug about tackling racism as it wasn't perpetrated by a white Australian to start with. The zealotry of the convert is a terrifying force.
Thus when Hogg racially abuses an Indian player or when fans at the MCG start "racist" chants some in Australia are prepared to turn a blind eye when those are the very people who are standing up now and shouting loudest. Racism is deplorable and the world would be a better place if we could rid it of it but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Is Australia's inherent guilt over its own shady past (and present) causing this to exponentialise? (if that can be made into a verb)
Just some thoughts that no doubt will offend some although I assure you that is not my intention.

Colin is the biggest racist on this entire board

But seriously, what happened to the Indigenous Australians is terrible, but all countries have their dark pasts, and today Australia is one of the best countries in the world in terms of tolerance. We are a very secular country, which is very good for a Jewish family like my own, or for anyone. There are blips on the radar, but free speech is allowed and everyone is allowed to express themselves in their own way.

I think that you make an interesting but poorly paragpraphed point there, that Australians do enjoy defending their honour, but will often attack others for what they do themselves. As I said in the India tour of Australia thread, the Indians seem to be doing the same at this stage, condemning Australian crowds for banter that can be interpreted as racist, ignoring the fact that their own fans were under fire a few months ago for racist chants towards Symonds.

Hypocrisy seems to be as big a problem as racism at the moment. But on the other hand, not everyone on this board is guilty of the original offence, and if that is so, they should be condemning both their own fans and the others, or none at all. Personally I suppose that I am guilty of defending my own fellow fans and condemning others. I believe there's a difference, but my bias has to be in play.

I think that as an impartial observer, I appreciate the fact that you can see a lot Colin. First time I've seen something that shows your worthiness of best poster

 

[sjdigitall]

The only racism involved in this whole test was, if he did say it, Harbhajan's 'monkey' incident to Symonds, thats it, don't try and call the chants racist because they weren't racist when South Africa were in Australia.

Mate if u think calling someone a monkey is racist then you seriously have some mental problems. Australians over the years have said far worse things than "monkey" and i just find it hard to believe that they or symonds were really offended by this. Monkey will never EVER have any racial connotations no matter what you say.

 

[prarara]

No, not necessarily. I'll amongst the few Indians to say it does carry racial connotation depending on the context it is used. In this case, in Australia, it is used as a term of derision against people of color.

For instance, in Tibet, sticking your tongue out at someone is a form of respect because it is considered the cleanest place on the body-but in India or China or a few other places it is used as a gesture to tease someone.