Jan 3-7: 5th Test: Australia v England at Sydney

[midgetwars]

Hauritz was Australia's best spin bowler from the selectors' point of view. But since the public mostly hated him and doherty came up and took a stack of wickets against Sri Lanka they turned to Doherty.

Reason why Haurtiz failed is a number of reasons. But mostly it's because of the lineup of India where the best spin bowlers failed and because Hauritz bowled crap. Until, we saw Doherty bowl we dindn't know that Hauritz was australia's best spin bowler. But reason's why O'Keefe is not being trailed is annoying and confusing.

Hilfenhaus was supposed to be Australia's swing king like Anderson. But Anderson obviously has out-performed Hilfy so people are seeing the differences. Yes, Hilf has bowled well, but he's lack of wicket taking ability and the lack of trying new things with the ball does not help take wickets. It was the battle between Captains, Wicket-Keepers and supposedly the swinging bowlers. Hilfenhaus was supposed to be Australia's Anderson. Hilf bowls well in England and so does Anderson, but with Anderson bowling well in Australia why can't Hilf??

 

[angryangy]

Hilfenhaus has a lot of good attributes, but he really does struggle to get wickets. He doesn't swing the ball late like Anderson or dare I say it, Johnson, but that's not an impasse. He has a lot of mileage in his stock ball, with over upon over of the ball swinging away or hitting the seam just outside off stump. Sometimes he even gets a few to beat the bat, but he lacks the killer blow, the one that fatally outsmarts the batsman.

 

[sami ullah khan]

^Yeah that is exactly whats wrong with Hilfy. He does not have any variations. I don't remember watching him swing the ball both ways. One dimensional bowlers are always going to struggle to get wickets.

 

[angryangy]

I've seen him bowl an inswinger. Plus an offcutter and he has a good bouncer that gets him wickets. It's not to say he doesn't have the skills, but he doesn't bring them together in an ideal strategy.

 

[midgetwars]

Hilfenhaus' choice of bowling are like Ponting's choice of bowlers. They both have the skills and the choice. But neither like to go and try something special. Ponting rarely goes to Katich, Hilfenhaus rearely bowls offcutters, inswingers etc.

 

[Lee1981]

Im a massive swann fan and having a worldclass off spinner is a huge advantage obviously, however having seen very little of hauritz i really dont think he is that bad and feel he could do a good job for the aussies, i didnt see any of him during the india series but im hearing alot on here that he got dropped on the back of that series.
That seems a bit harsh to me, he arguably bowled as good or some may say better than swann in the 2009 ashes, i would rather have someone who on his day can take a 5 wickets or more as from what little of hauritz i have seen he could do that, rather than a dud like doherty or the paperboy smith.

 

[lethalhughes]

''Until, we saw Doherty bowl we dindn't know that Hauritz was australia's best spin bowler. But reason's why O'Keefe is not being trailed is annoying and confusing.''
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Agreed.Most people on here were rubbishing Hauritz.Its amazing how good Hauritz has become being out of the test team.Hauritz was always the best spinner in Australia, if people don't think he is good enough to play in our test side then we might as well play an all pace attack, cause I've seen most of the spinners and apart from Hauritz the rest are so far from test standard its not funny.Holland and Boyce though have impress me , I see potential in those two ,but they're still a fair way away from test cricket.I've been saying this , if we really have to play a spinner then Hauritz is the best option by a mile.Btw I don't rate O'Keefe from what I've seen but his stats do make a compelling case.So he might be worth a shot.

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Hilfenhaus has a lot of good attributes, but he really does struggle to get wickets. He doesn't swing the ball late like Anderson or dare I say it, Johnson, but that's not an impasse. He has a lot of mileage in his stock ball, with over upon over of the ball swinging away or hitting the seam just outside off stump. Sometimes he even gets a few to beat the bat, but he lacks the killer blow, the one that fatally outsmarts the batsman.

Yes I get the feeling he doesn't see himself as an attacking bowler( maybe Punter is the problem then).For a guy who swings the ball this much he needs to have the batter play much more.I doubt very much he has an in swinger, or if he does he doesn't have command of it like Anderson does.

 

[SaiSrini]

Hope England keep their feet to the ground and not gloat too much about their Ashes win in Australia. Their formers (Vaughan and Gough) have been trying to hype up this win by talking a lot about how England will be No.1 in the world very soon and how others will suffer injuries, have retiring players, etc.

 

[War]

I've seen him bowl an inswinger. Plus an offcutter and he has a good bouncer that gets him wickets. It's not to say he doesn't have the skills, but he doesn't bring them together in an ideal strategy.

Yea exactly. Last Ashes 2009, as we all know Hilfy was head & shoulders above Anderson in even more bowler friendly conditions & was the leading wicket taking on both sides.

When the ball was swinging Hilgy matched Anderson. But when it stopped Hilfy still bowled well, while Anderson noticeably became a dud.

Anderson continued those struggles on ENG last winter tour to S Africa. While Hilfy continued to show improvement all year with his surprising efforts in India.

Hilfy came into this Ashes with all the plus points. While Anderson was the man who had to prove he could bowl on non-swinging AUS conditions. Although Anderson has got fairly favourable AUS conditions to bowl in.

Thats why i saw with Hilfy after one year of consistent improvement, he couldn't have just lose all his skills in one month, something technical is wrong.

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''Until, we saw Doherty bowl we dindn't know that Hauritz was australia's best spin bowler. But reason's why O'Keefe is not being trailed is annoying and confusing.''
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Agreed.Most people on here were rubbishing Hauritz.Its amazing how good Hauritz has become being out of the test team.Hauritz was always the best spinner in Australia, if people don't think he is good enough to play in our test side then we might as well play an all pace attack, cause I've seen most of the spinners and apart from Hauritz the rest are so far from test standard its not funny.Holland and Boyce though have impress me , I see potential in those two ,but they're still a fair way away from test cricket.I've been saying this , if we really have to play a spinner then Hauritz is the best option by a mile.Btw I don't rate O'Keefe from what I've seen but his stats do make a compelling case.So he might be worth a shot.

Not for me ever. I have always rated Krejza over Hauritz & he IMO is the best option by a mile if used properly by the captain.

But even if some also have their reservations about Krejza as you say, which i've always maintained AUS might as well build its attack on play an all pace attack long term.

 

[Lee1981]

War, i do find most of your stuff pretty good reading tbh and respect you feel very strongly about certain points.
But i have to disagree with you on the hauritz situation, i honestly think the aussies missed a trick by not selecting him, other than the occasional spell from siddle and johnson our batsmen looked pretty comfortable against pace.
Im not saying he would have ripped us to bits, but he would give our batsmen something different to think about, whilst allowing the quicks a rest period.

 

[War]

War, i do find most of your stuff pretty good reading tbh and respect you feel very strongly about certain points.
But i have to disagree with you on the hauritz situation, i honestly think the aussies missed a trick by not selecting him, other than the occasional spell from siddle and johnson our batsmen looked pretty comfortable against pace.
Im not saying he would have ripped us to bits, but he would give our batsmen something different to think about, whilst allowing the quicks a rest period.

Ok my friend. My simple rebuttal to this which i have articulated before is i dont view it as AUS missed a trick by not picking him. But rather they dropped him before he would before the ENG batsman continued to destroy him like what India & Ross Taylor had done throughout 2010.

You say as a other have are suggested that he would allowed the quicks a rest period, by presuming he would have been a competent holding spinner. But again i ask whats makes you & others so so confident he would have done that to ENG batsmen?. Why couldn't the ENG batsmen continued to same destruction that INDs bats caused him & hit him out of the attack like what they did to Doherty?.

Even in a FC game before the Brisbane test that i saw on live internet stream in the 1st innings a strong Victoria batting team (compared to joke S Australia & West Australia batting line-ups that has been giving him flattering FC figures in domestic cricket recently) played him just as comfortably & with similar disdain to what the IND batsmen where doing.

New South Wales v Victoria at Sydney, Nov 10-13, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

All of that would have aided in the selectors axing him as well.

As i've mentioned before, when people use Hauritz IND failures as excuse/pass not for him to have been dropped. Ross Taylor early this year did to Hauritz what the IND bats did to him, so the writing was on the wall a long time ago. All ENG had to do was bat properly as they have done throughout the Ashes & with KP back in form i really dont see how anyone could speculate anything other than Hauritz continuing to being hammered again if he played.

 

[lethalhughes]

Yea exactly. Last Ashes 2009, as we all know Hilfy was head & shoulders above Anderson in even more bowler friendly conditions & was the leading wicket taking on both sides.

When the ball was swinging Hilgy matched Anderson. But when it stopped Hilfy still bowled well, while Anderson noticeably became a dud.

Anderson continued those struggles on ENG last winter tour to S Africa. While Hilfy continued to show improvement all year with his surprising efforts in India.

Hilfy came into this Ashes with all the plus points. While Anderson was the man who had to prove he could bowl on non-swinging AUS conditions. Although Anderson has got fairly favourable AUS conditions to bowl in.

Thats why i saw with Hilfy after one year of consistent improvement, he couldn't have just lose all his skills in one month, something technical is wrong.

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Not for me ever. I have always rated Krejza over Hauritz & he IMO is the best option by a mile if used properly by the captain.

But even if some also have their reservations about Krejza as you say, which i've always maintained AUS might as well build its attack on play an all pace attack long term.

Yes I forgot about Krejza, he seemed a very good prospect and was axe way too quickly.Its a tough situation for selectors made even harder now they've turn their backs on Hauritz.The selectors just seem 2 pick names out of a hat try them and if the fail in a few games they get the axe.Selectors must be convince with their selections and stop chopping and changing.There just haven't been much purpose behind their selections.In the Pakistan series they didn't see Smith as being good enough to bat in the top 6, as proven with them batting him behind Paine.What change between then and now which made them see him as a top 6 bat.Was Smith chosen in the top 6 cause he can bowl?If they had doubts that he is a top 6 bat and stuck him in at 6 cause he can bowl then thats poor selecting.As I say I love Smith's game but I believe selectors got doubts about him in the top 6 and because of a lack of a proper spinner he is being played at 6 to be an all rounder.If one thing North's selection should have taught us is pick our best 6 bats if one or two happen to be an all rounder then thats great.If I'm wrong and they believe Smith is one of the best 6 bats in Australia and he is better than Khawaja then fair enough in picking him.Had we had a strong top 5 then there was a case for Haddin 6 and Smith 7 but we don't.Selectors need to go to the basic,Evaluate things and see their errors cause they've been many and rebuild the team.

Ponting can no longer bat at 3,is it time for him to go?Watson has been good opening but still his conversion rate hasn't been special.Is it time to forget Katich.Who are the players who we believe are long term propect ; Khawaja should be one, Hughes( I know some people aren't convince but I believe he is a top player),Copeland,Hazelwood, Maddinson, Boyce, Paine, Ferguson.Is there a role for Clarke?captain?If not who will be anointed as the next skipper.Welll here's my team moving forward 16 man squad;

1.Hughes
2.Katich
3.Khawaja
4.Watson( I know his been great at the top but hey its my team and I've alway believe Watto isn't an opener and he's almost convince me he is but conversion rate says otherwise)
5.Hussey
6.Clarke ( captain, was thinking of batting him ahead of Hussey but Hussey is in great form.
7.Haddin
8.Hauritz
9.Copeland( yes he takes Johnson's spot ,if Johnson was any good he would have shown that, class is something you just watch in a bowler an even on his off day u just say wow he just keeps trying and you never feel a class bowler is ''out of it'' ,Johnson is just useless.His bad days are so terrible and his good days are so few and far between that we can't keep carrying him).
10.Siddle( I know he is not the best thing since slice bread but he's still a fine bowler, btw Harris if fit takes his spot)
11.Bollinger( I'm convince this guy is the best pacer in Australia regardless of his last match, he does everything bowls quick , swing great control, has alot of heart.I don't know why people are against him being picked.

12.Ferguson
13.Maddinson
14.Boyce
15.Paine
16 Hazelwood( yes no Hilfy , I still think he is a good bowler but he needs to add that cutting edge to his game andd Hazelwood is the future of fast bowling in Australia).

 

[midgetwars]

Yea exactly. Last Ashes 2009, as we all know Hilfy was head & shoulders above Anderson in even more bowler friendly conditions & was the leading wicket taking on both sides.

When the ball was swinging Hilgy matched Anderson. But when it stopped Hilfy still bowled well, while Anderson noticeably became a dud.

Anderson continued those struggles on ENG last winter tour to S Africa. While Hilfy continued to show improvement all year with his surprising efforts in India.

Hilfy came into this Ashes with all the plus points. While Anderson was the man who had to prove he could bowl on non-swinging AUS conditions. Although Anderson has got fairly favourable AUS conditions to bowl in.

Thats why i saw with Hilfy after one year of consistent improvement, he couldn't have just lose all his skills in one month, something technical is wrong.

If Anderson can cause Havoc then it can be asked why can't Hilfenhaus?? It's obvious that Hilfenhaus can bowl better than andereson in the best conditions of swing bowling. But Hilfenhaus has struggled against England in Australia.

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You say as a other have are suggested that he would allowed the quicks a rest period, by presuming he would have been a competent holding spinner. But again i ask whats makes you & others so so confident he would have done that to ENG batsmen?. Why couldn't the ENG batsmen continued to same destruction that INDs bats caused him & hit him out of the attack like what they did to Doherty?.

Even in a FC game before the Brisbane test that i saw on live internet stream in the 1st innings a strong Victoria batting team (compared to joke S Australia & West Australia batting line-ups that has been giving him flattering FC figures in domestic cricket recently) played him just as comfortably & with similar disdain to what the IND batsmen where doing.

All of that would have aided in the selectors axing him as well.

Hauritz can now bat though... Also, it is better for Hauritz than Krejza since Krejza leaks a lot of runs.

 

[lethalhughes]

I would choose Anderson over Hilfenhaus in swinging conditions.

 

[Themer]

It's obvious that Hilfenhaus can bowl better than andereson in the best conditions of swing bowling.

Complete opposite. Anderson's the most dangerous bowler in the world when conditions suit its his bowling when its quiet that has always been the question which has been allayed slightly after this series.