Recess Mafia - Mafia (Hedger & IceAge) Win!

[thedon5]

OK, I was just in America for the last few weeks and barely had WiFi let alone a computer. Really I shouldn't have joined but forgot about my holiday and my activity was appalling.

Anyway, I am back now and should be back to normal activity. Will go through the rest now.

 

[thedon5]

OK. About me, my joejoe lynch was scummy as hell, but the truth is I thought of the two he was more likely scum than musk so went for him for no real reason, just to try and give the game a move on. I wasn't sure how active I'd be so wanted to keep it going, I didn't want to be the one stopping the game moving forward so went out on a limb which didn't work out. I then forgot to check sites for a week, hence no activity on day 3. Anyway no more of that from here.

Musk has been a bit lost all game and making some strange posts. Watcher seems like a scummy claim to me as I haven't seen it used before over a tracker and it's something in newbie wikis, but his explanations of his role usage and general play since his claim make me believe it. Loco's play doesn't quite sit right with me atm, but I will let it slide for now.

I am most suspicious of Varun atm due to some of his recent posts. His last post on page 16 is the strangest one to me. Just seems like Mafia filler and some of the phrases he uses are odd.

FOS: Varun

Suspicions of me are justified, but yash lynching me out of nowhere is unnecessary. It's yash though so I expect it and don't automatically see it as Mafia behaviour.

 

[Villain]

Nah that doesn't make sense . Actually if we go a few pages back, the write-up sounds as if there was a failed kill so, doesn't make sense. At this moment, Varun is topping my scum-read list but before doing anything; I'd like others' suggestions and yeah, please have Don replaced - might be someone having an important role (I'm not saying that he is having, just pointing out a probability).[DOUBLEPOST=1421274776][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's probably because he was the most suspected person after Joe so, lynching him would have obviously been a disadvantage for mafia. Also, I second the second part. Please reveal your role in any case we need it.

You're probably right there as I just forgot about the N1 scenario but my main reason for lynching was that he lynched Joe. Anyway, now Don's finally back and I also find his reasons valid enough to unlynch him already as I can't lynch someone based on my gut feeling/with nothing to prove. Unlynch: thedon5

I still hard fos Varun and I don't think that's going to change but I want to know why people think just because nobody visited him, that makes him mafia?

That's exactly what I tried saying in my previous post, if we follow it then Sulaiman should be considered as a mafia too as nobody visited him either. And by godfather I was pointing out the possibility.

FOS: Varun
Varun's play has been very strange already but I'm not convinced enough to lynch him right now as one more mislynch might take the game away from us. I'd anyway like him to post something good in his defense which definitely shouldn't be a claim.

 

[Varun]

Well, okay. I'll respond to everyone in a single post without quoting bits from everyone. I agree as someone who's been confused and (in the last few days) not being able to pay enough attention to the game, I've appeared extremely scummy. But it troubles me how there have flawed logics and over-the-top reasonings given in the support of the suspicion towards me. I believe themusketeer's claim, obviously since Gretchen Grinwald is supposed to be a main character and no one counterclaimed him. But I don't understand how not being targeted at night makes me scum. I don't think alignment draws the lines between the likelihood of being targeted? I can't say for sure if there are two or three mafia or anti-town - probably the latter - and how many night roles they have, but we know that they killed Simon and it shows in a way that obviously I wasn't targeted, more so by the town PRs. It shouldn't indicate anything at all. Also, I was on the right track with the 'lose your eye' thing. I thought it was a cop because I didn't expect a watcher or a tracker to be in a game so small. I never suggested that El Loco and themusketeer were partners; I was someone who was trying to figure things out as a vanilla townie (something I've been hinting at). And it at made sense as a possibility at the time, no matter how confusing. Therefore I'd like Sulaiman to be a little more explanatory in how all of it makes him believe I'm mafia. I'm not doubting him, but behind someone who's a town read for pretty much everyone, it could be clever mafia play. Also, my phrasing is strange (thedon5 mentioned this) because I haven't been getting time to think before I post. Everytime I post I just try to be coherent in a minimum of words.

I know thedon's back to activity, but I find this strange as well. "Suspicions of me are justified, but yash lynching me out of nowhere is unnecessary. It's yash though so I expect it and don't automatically see it as Mafia behaviour."

 

[Varun]

Think I'll claim to avoid further confusion. I'm Becky Detweiler, T.J.'s Sister. I don't know much about what's happening and although I couldn't really be bothered, it's upto me to figure it out on my own. I'm a Vanilla Townie.

 

[thedon5]

That screams fake claim to me. That is such a minor character, I have seen quite a bit of recess and had no idea who that was. The dead players so far have been Ashley and Vince. There are enough characters for User to use without having to get into obscure ones like Becky. The claim came at an odd time IMO as well, we still weren't at that stage yet.

It is looking like either musk or Varun could be Mafia. Musk had a much better claim and Varun's play is making me suspicious moreso than musk's.

Phrasing isn't what's strange, it's the choice of phrases.

Re my yash comment, he is known as a hothead so I'm not surprised in the slightest. That's what his play is like.

Lynch: Varun

 

[Sulaiman7]

I still hard fos Varun and I don't think that's going to change but I want to know why people think just because nobody visited him, that makes him mafia?

Because not only nobody visited him but of his recent play has been scummy.

Varun, I've doubts that you're a scum; I never said that I believe that you are nor did I lynch you. I was just trying to make out something out of nothing as the game was almost dead. Also, as I said above, you just weren't not visited by anyone? or didn't visit anyone? but were scummy as hell - just like you said. So, me observing that shouldn't be something I've to explain about and also to the people who still have the thought that I forced the Joe lynch - well it was a lynch majority so it wasn't just me. Talking about Musk's claim, it's freakin clear that he's a townie and a pr - so, why the hell didn't I start supporting Loco from the start and lynch him easily if I were a mafia -_-? I instead supported Musk because of what Varun pointed out and that's something I couldn't have figured out at first. Varun's claim looks interesting although I've no information about the movie nor I've read the story or whatever so, I'll just leave it upto the town and be passive and do what the majority decides. I'm, however getting a bit suspicious of Hedger. Hedger, what do you say about the above happening and Varun's claim? also there's something I don't like you did..you said in a reply to someone that you can't scum-hunt well when being questioned - well tell me how much scum-hunting have you done? I see that as an escape tactic of mafia and now you're trying to keep a low profile so, please expand on that. I'm kinda neutral on Varun as of yet after his claim but I'd rather wait for other's saying.

 

[IceAgeComing]

First off; Unvote because that claim actually makes sense, plus the character claim makes me a lot more likely to trust it.

That does make things hard for us though since it takes away our prime lynching candidate - prior to that claim I think that everyone in the game had musketeer on their personal list! I'm not quite getting this big movement on Varun - I don't think that he's definitely town or anything, I just don't think that he's particularly scummy, and certainly not scummy enough to lynch him in a MLLO situation which most of us seem to think that we are in. Also one wonders why a mafia would claim vanilla in this situation in a closed setup game: as we have seen in a themed setup in some ways it'd be easier to fake a power role claim than a vanilla one since the latter might use strange and obscure characters since, y'know, "vanilla" seems to imply relative anonymity. I'm saying that with absolutely no knowledge of the theme of the game bar the fact that its some shit that I watched when I was 9, so I'm going to judge any claim based on gameplay first rather than if it fits in line with the theme. The timing of the claim did seem odd, but I think that was the direction that we were headed in so if it cuts out a page of "claim!!!" then I'm perfectly fine with it!

I still have my suspicions on thedon but since he seems to be back for good I'm not going to rush into anything since, y'know, MLL. I don't see the vote that Yash did as indicative of anything: one vote for pressure sometimes can be a townie technique to prod a player into doing something without being too threatening - with eight players around, one town vote isn't going to lead to a lynch but it does indicate "I think that you're suspicious". That's one reason I voted the way I did with musketeer at the start of day 3: it was a lynch that I'd be comfortable having but in terms of forcing a claim its much easier to do it with a vote on someone rather than with no one having voted.

At this point any lynch that needs to be made should be considered since if we mislynch then we are most likely done for. That's why we shouldn't rush into anything: if we fail to meet a deadline and thus get a no lynch then unless something odd happens then we're back for a day 4 in a LOL situation, which is pretty much the same situation as today but it would allow any PRs another day to get information. I wouldn't push for it since a successful lynch might help get us out of a situation where a wrong lynch is a loss but if we end up getting beaten by a deadline then it wouldn't be the end of the world...

 

[hedger_14]

Regarding Varun's claim, as don said, it seems more likely to be a fake claim. I do remember her from Recess but given that she never really played a main role (it was never with the actual Recess), I don't trust it one bit. That being said, if Varun was mafia, he did read musk as a pr, so I would think he'd be more likely to kill them at night, regardless of how scummy they were. However, it could have been all bullshit on his part, which honestly I thought it was. I thought the push on musk being cop and pointing it out for everyone to know just looked terrible and I already stated earlier why it's anti-town.

@IceAgeComing - I obviously can see where you're coming from with the claims, however disregarding everything claim wise, what about his gameplay would you say isn't scummy.

I know it's a difficult question but given his play, his flawed reads and now using the fact he was 'confused' as a defence to how scummy he's been, when all in all I don't know what there's been to be confused at, I just can't see him as town.

Maybe I read it differently because of his push on me (and others) and how bad it's been, but like joejoe, nothing he's done, apart from small bits of his play that are overwhelmed by the rest of his scummy play, has been enough to make me think he's town.

I didn't really feel comfortable pushing earlier but as the game has gone on, his whole game has shifted slowly and he has been way less townie and while I am using a lot of PoE here to come to this read, I do see it being right more likely than not.

FOS: El Loco

Looking back at day 1, I found him townie, but when I outted that townread, he tried to discredit it and take it with 'a grain of salt', what I have learnt to be a regular mafia ploy, trying to be modest. (Of course town can do it as well so only along with everything do I find it a major scumtell). The towntells since day 1 have become a bare minimum, and the fact that he couldn't see joejoe as scum despite the fact that he had not done anything but even tried to just make it not look obvious by just being like "I'll take the blame if he does flip mafia", and still continuance to push on musk, and even today basically just stated he was gonna death tunnel him (until he claimed at least), his play just doesn't seem right. I think he felt a bit stuck and he did look to push on me but couldn't find any reason to do so. Why he pointed it out I'm not sure but it just really comes off like he's not sure who else to push on, and post musk's claim, did look to slightly push on Varun without going full on that way.

I don't know if anybody has anything to go on to refute this claim but I'd like them to do it ASAP if it is the case because I don't want time wasted by a fake claim.

That just seems unecessary and feels like a slight effort to buy some more time.

I know everyone has kinda fallen off Loco and nobody has really found him scummy but I think it's time to just put everything on the table, so my entire reads.

Sulaiman - town, has to be, everything coming from him is fluent and genuine, if he was mafia I think he'd be more over the place and his confidence in joejoe's lynch despite him flipping town screams town to me, especially if musk is town which is what it's looking like. I don't think he'd put himself in the line of fire with a Town v Town cross, by trying to hard push on joejoe.

Yashdude - most likely town, still wary. He still remains inconsistent which is difficult to read, but he's been logical enough, stepping off the death tunnel on me I'm not exactly sure what happened but I think just being spoken to by the mod, and just having a night to get our heads right was the reason for that. I think yash would have failed under pressure by now if he was scum, so for the moment marking him as town.

Musk - town, thought he was town before, sadly enough I actually find him more scummy because of his claim and the fact he wasn't watching someone who would die last night, but his character claim is too risky and I think he just doesn't know how to use his role properly.

Varun/Loco - scum, I've already stated my reasons above/throughout the thread and I'm not really going to go on much about that now.

That leaves thedon5/IceAgeComing.

I think I'm right to assume that there's 3 scum, I haven't mentioned it before although if there was a third party I'd have to rethink my reads as I'm taking a lot of partner interactions into account right now.

Anyway, both still remain null reads to me. thedon was leaning scum but his post today is somewhat decent, although his push on Varun could be an attempt to distance himself from his partner. So I would probably lean still on thedon being mafia than IceAge. The latter has not done enough to prove he's town, and while reading his posts, I cannot see anything that blatantly points him as scum, I think he needs to do a lot more, and be a lot more forceful in his reads if I'm ready to mark him as town. He's not giving much away and his posting seems well thought out and careful, but not having played forum mafia in a while makes it hard to read those kinds of posts. For the moment I think I'll put him as slight town but it's probably the read I'm least confident with.

There, that should be about everything.

tl;dr Varun/Loco + one of thedon5/IceAge mafia.

 

[Abhas]

Lynch: User2010

 

[El Loco]

Looking back at day 1, I found him townie, but when I outted that townread, he tried to discredit it and take it with 'a grain of salt'

If I actually to wanted discredit your townread of me, I would have come out and done it rather than beat around the bush. I have no choice but to always remain sceptical without any cast iron evidence. Do you expect that you townreading me is going to put you in my townie books as well?
Whether you're town or mafia, I reckon the fact that I'm not willing to abide by the general consensus unsettles you. As a townie, I will always try and deduce and reason what I think the state of play is myself, regardless of what anyone else thinks I should do.

Also, maybe you should try sometime to look at the game from a different perspective rather than your own. But then again, there is no way that would even cross a mafia aligned player's mind. However, I am just suggesting that because l literally haven't the faintest clue.

Why he pointed it out I'm not sure but it just really comes off like he's not sure who else to push on, and post musk's claim, did look to slightly push on Varun without going full on that way.

Obviously I'm not sure who to push on. There is one thing I have to go on but there is literally nothing I can find to give it some driving force that I've all but abandoned it. But I'm not going to resign to anything being bad play on my part, even if it, in hindsight, does rub off slightly scummy, because everything I've done in this game, I've done for a reason.

That just seems unecessary and feels like a slight effort to buy some more time.

I don't know where this has come from. You're the first one to come out and try and FOS me with a load of drivel explaining why you have. I want as much time as it is possible in the day for the town to be able to make the first mafia lynch, I don't need any leeway made on my part, especially not by myself.

I stated in black and white that I wanted Muskateer lynched today before his claim. I also invited anyone to come and try and put a mafia spin on it, which is exactly what you're doing right now.
I have the feeling that I'm going to have to claim sometime soon now, which I'm reluctant to do. But on second hand it might be necessary so we can finally make some inroads.
I really wasn't anticipating anyone having to claim today though, and I really didn't think there was anything Muskateer would be able to say to stop me from lynching him. You referred to what I was doing as 'death tunneling', and it was exactly that. But all I've got to say to that is, and what? It's time somebody took this game by the scruff of the neck.

 

[El Loco]

Let me just explain how we can still find conclusive evidence to lynch a mafia today as if I haven't done so already, and in case anyone wants to take this as an attempt to divert attention from the discussion of the possibility that I might be scum, let me just remind you so you can carry on.

If a roleblocker blocked the kill on night 1, they find reason to lynch the person they blocked. If they can't they infer it, and I myself will be on the prowl to try and help facilitate it, and so should all the other town.
The possibility that the goings on on night 1 were the result of the actions of a doc is a different matter altogether. At the very least it clears one person of being town, provided that person wasn't one of jojoe or Simon...and one of them wasn't the doc, in which case, this is why this should have been done on the second day when I first suggested it. But there is nothing that can be done about that now if that is the case.

Edit: It didn't cross my mind that one of the dead could be an RB or doc. They were both each revealed to be one of the main protagonists. In which case this soft claim malarkey I've been banging on about all game could be useless. Great. The only other thing I can add to what I've said above is that at least some of joejoe's lynchers knew what they were doing, so I'm keeping tabs.
I'm going to analyse Varun's posts and see what's up with his claim and the general state of affairs tomorrow as it's a bit late and I think I've spewed out enough today. But by the looks of things I doubt T.J.'s sister would have a part to play here, and claiming as one of the protagonists would not be a good idea since all of them most definitely are/have been in play.

 

[thedon5]

Hmm. Tough. A couple of El_Loco's posts earlier in the day were a bit iffy for me, but aside from that he has been completely town for me in this game.

For me either hedger or Varun is definitely Mafia. Varun is obviously the one I am more concerned by now, but if he turns out town then it's hedger for me. Other possible Mafia are Sulaiman, yash and IceAge.

Interested to see the opinions of others.

 

[hedger_14]

Parts of that defence are townish but there is a few bothers that I'm not going to look past. Still I can't see Varun flipping anything but scum right now. Without trying to brag, there's no way my top 2 foses are both going to be wrong (in joejoe and Varun). So I'm not willing to take my vote off Varun, but I'll still just look at Loco

Whether you're town or mafia, I reckon the fact that I'm not willing to abide by the general consensus unsettles you

Maybe that's half-true. Not abiding by the general consensus is fine, that's not what bothers me. If I don't agree with a push on a player by everyone, I'll speak up and I encourage it. But yes, the fact that you don't agree with my logic unsettles me somewhat. When it comes down to it, it's much easier when I can convince people to listen to me and my reasoning, I trust in my own reads, (however much they may change), and if I'm wrong I'm fine taking the blame, I do not like to be right and then people not listening to me. That's the most frustrating thing.

And musk basically is confirmed town from his claim. Now what happens if he had a really obscure character? You're gonna death tunnel him, and I don't think I'd be able to sway you from that so if you are town, that could end badly. So as you can see it is somewhat unsettling.


Still frowning upon some of the rest of your post but for the moment I feel more comfortable letting it go and focusing more on Varun/thedon.

Other possible Mafia are Sulaiman, yash and IceAge.

Well I can see where you're getting one of me/varun is mafia and asking would be pointless, but I want to know why you think other possible mafia are those. I mean you just listed everybody but Loco who you apparently townread but adding that is pointless because the rest of your reads kinda implies that.....

 

[El Loco]

When it comes down to it, it's much easier when I can convince people to listen to me and my reasoning, I trust in my own reads, (however much they may change), and if I'm wrong I'm fine taking the blame, I do not like to be right and then people not listening to me. That's the most frustrating thing.

Spot on. Which is why you of all people should've seen the reasoning in me trying to box Muskateer in.
Also I don't think, from what I can see, that very many people have tried to see anything that I've alluded to, which makes being FOSed all the more exasperating.