Should M Aamer be shown leniency?

[Varun]

They shouldn't have publicised this news.

 

[sami ullah khan]

^Yes I totally agree. It would have been much easier for the lad had the whole thing been covert.

 

[pcfan123]

He is going to blow the lid after pleading innocent?

Do these guys even understand the meaning of the word innocent? There was some sympathy for him initially but since he is going this "innocent" route and denying it all, just about everyone is calling for his life ban. Vettori, Warnie, Murali and Chappelle so far

I hope he gets one

 

[khalek]

Whatever it is, they need to clear this mess up as quickly as possible so we could shift the focus back to the World Cup. A world cup with all these match fixing allegations going on wouldn't be great to watch.

Banning him would be the right thing to do since he's not opening his mouth.

 

[King Cricket]

He is going to blow the lid after pleading innocent?

Do these guys even understand the meaning of the word innocent? There was some sympathy for him initially but since he is going this "innocent" route and denying it all, just about everyone is calling for his life ban. Vettori, Warnie, Murali and Chappelle so far

I hope he gets one

Slapping a life ban straight on his face won't be a prudent thing to do at this juncture of time. It is imperative for the cricketing fraternity to know the names of other players/officials involved in match fixing and come down hard on the bookies who are tarnishing the image of the game we all love.

It's abundantly clear that the other two accused, Butt and Asif, are not going to co-operate the slightest with Scotland Yard or other relevant authorities on this regard. So, we are left with only Aamer who albeit pleading innocence and everything is ATM, as reported by Herald Sun, willing to open his mouth and let the cat out of the bag.

Sure, he has a dubious character, can't be trusted and all, but then again, we must know the names. For that, if we have to show some leniency while doling out his share of the punishment, I have no qualms with that. Stick and carrot strategy.

 

[pcfan123]

Except at the last second we should take back the carrot and bash him on the head with a stick.

 

[Themer]

Lets do what he did. Say they're going to let him off lightly if he cooperates then change you mind after he's given evidence.

Sort of how the other day he claimed he was 100% innocent...

 

[sohum]

First of all, Amir is right in proclaiming his innocence because you are innocent unless proven guilty in most courts of law (I'm guessing this includes the British courts of law). So his statement does have a basis even though it's just dirty.

From the leniency aspect, I'm still a little befuddled with this one. From what I understand, Amir/Asif basically fixed the outcomes of 1-2 balls in the innings. So what they did was indeed fixing but it is nowhere near as bad as throwing the game away, as we've seen in the past with cricketers. Hansie Cronje, Mohammad Azharuddin, Ajay Jadeja--these guys threw games away by underperforming. They didn't fix certain balls here and there--they actually underperformed and fixed a match. That, in my mind, is much worse than what these guys here have done.

What Amir in particular did was not good and probably in violation of the ACSU. But it seems that the only people benefiting/losing from the whole endeavor were those involved in illegal betting rings. Fixing a ball here and there does not usually affect the outcome of a game.

The counterargument for all this, is of course, that if they can fix just a ball and get away with it, what's to stop them from moving on to bigger things? Which is why I think the ICC should employ something other than a zero-tolerance policy, especially when the education they have provided to cricketers is questionable (probably because they delegate that responsibility to the home boards).

Asif has had enough strikes against him that he has a very questionable character and should probably be slapped with a large penalty.

Butt I imagine is playing a Cronje/Azhar-esque role in this whole matter by organizing the fixing and forcing his players to comply. He should be slapped with a life ban since as captain he's supposed to have more of a backbone and should be demonstrating leadership qualities.

Amir has kind of got caught in the middle and looking at realistically, this offense in and of itself shouldn't earn him a life ban since in the context of the game it is meaningless. If Asif was underperforming to cost Pakistan games, he should have been banned for life regardless of age.

The only leniency afforded to Amir should be because the crime he committed wasn't as bad as the crime that he could have (and may, in the future) commit.

sohum added 2 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

Additionally, does anyone have any information as to what crime he's being investigated for by the police? Participating in an illegal betting ring, perhaps?

 

[pcfan123]

"defrauding bookmakers"

Basically since betting is legal in England, purposely altering the outcomes is defrauding the legitimate bookies.

OFC that is not relevant to the ICC, they don't need a police conviction on that count to punish him.

 

[shravi]

Just a question. These no balls were made to order for the NOTW journalist. Maybe someone who Mazhar Majeed had already known for a while would have been given more information. These no balls were just used as signals to establish trust between Majeed and the undercover reporter. We don't know what else was going on or what else we could have learned about Asif, Amir, Butt and whoever else if he didn't break the story as early as he did. Perhaps there is more to it than just no balls?

Am I wrong in my understanding of the situation?

 

[ksduded]

First of all, Amir is right in proclaiming his innocence because you are innocent unless proven guilty in most courts of law (I'm guessing this includes the British courts of law). So his statement does have a basis even though it's just dirty.

From the leniency aspect, I'm still a little befuddled with this one. From what I understand, Amir/Asif basically fixed the outcomes of 1-2 balls in the innings. So what they did was indeed fixing but it is nowhere near as bad as throwing the game away, as we've seen in the past with cricketers. Hansie Cronje, Mohammad Azharuddin, Ajay Jadeja--these guys threw games away by underperforming. They didn't fix certain balls here and there--they actually underperformed and fixed a match. That, in my mind, is much worse than what these guys here have done.

What Amir in particular did was not good and probably in violation of the ACSU. But it seems that the only people benefiting/losing from the whole endeavor were those involved in illegal betting rings. Fixing a ball here and there does not usually affect the outcome of a game.

The counterargument for all this, is of course, that if they can fix just a ball and get away with it, what's to stop them from moving on to bigger things? Which is why I think the ICC should employ something other than a zero-tolerance policy, especially when the education they have provided to cricketers is questionable (probably because they delegate that responsibility to the home boards).

Asif has had enough strikes against him that he has a very questionable character and should probably be slapped with a large penalty.

Butt I imagine is playing a Cronje/Azhar-esque role in this whole matter by organizing the fixing and forcing his players to comply. He should be slapped with a life ban since as captain he's supposed to have more of a backbone and should be demonstrating leadership qualities.

Amir has kind of got caught in the middle and looking at realistically, this offense in and of itself shouldn't earn him a life ban since in the context of the game it is meaningless. If Asif was underperforming to cost Pakistan games, he should have been banned for life regardless of age.

The only leniency afforded to Amir should be because the crime he committed wasn't as bad as the crime that he could have (and may, in the future) commit.

sohum added 2 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

Additionally, does anyone have any information as to what crime he's being investigated for by the police? Participating in an illegal betting ring, perhaps?

good counterargument for the life ban. When a trail is put forward, the situation and context comes into play as well, and that is why there has been a lot of support for leniency to be shown for Aamir and not the others.

Now only if we can somehow frame Ijaz Butt and get a life ban imposed on him.

 

[Insomniac]

Just a question. These no balls were made to order for the NOTW journalist. Maybe someone who Mazhar Majeed had already known for a while would have been given more information. These no balls were just used as signals to establish trust between Majeed and the undercover reporter. We don't know what else was going on or what else we could have learned about Asif, Amir, Butt and whoever else if he didn't break the story as early as he did. Perhaps there is more to it than just no balls?

Am I wrong in my understanding of the situation?

No, you're right.

But the thing is, how much money could NOTW afford to give Majeed, since they already gave him so much just for the 3 no balls.

But we do know enough - that the Pakistan vs SL game in the Asia Cup was fixed, as was Sydney (suppousedly).

Look at Kamran Akmal and Umar Akmal's wickets in that game - complete suicide, both getting out the same way.

Shahid Afridi was the only man who could've won that game, and he nearly did it. What if somehow Afridi did win that game, I wonder, because all the bookies would have lost a lot of money.

 

[Cricketman]

Maybe those were again just shows of spot fixing. "Umar Akmal will get out In X overs and Y balls". Perhaps the outcome doesn't matter

 

[Aoun13]

To me there must be a life ban on those who even fix a single ball. You are professional and fixing a ball is as same as giving secrets of your country to enemy.
I do have sympathy for Aamer and I am in support of some leniency because he was indulge in all these things due to Asif and Butt. We can't expect a 18 year old child to perfectly recognize what is good and what is bad.But for Asif and Butt a sure life ban with a heavy punishment like sealing all their bank accounts inside and outside the country and ruining them to a beggar.

 

[sohum]

You are professional and fixing a ball is as same as giving secrets of your country to enemy.

Actually the two aren't related very much at all. Spot fixing is a way to make a quick buck and yes, you are taking a crap on the honor of your country, but you are not doing so to endanger anyone. Whereas if you are giving secrets to an enemy you are doing so primarily for the purpose of defrauding your country, not to make money. And certainly the effects will be far-reaching.

Cricketman, I don't think spot fixing extends to the getting out at a certain circumstance. That is definitely more related to old-school match-fixing, where they would probably have bets such as x will get out for y runs. It also has a much bigger impact on the result of the game. If you have your top 3 batsmen all fixing to get out for less than some amount of runs, it's unlikely you will go on to win the game (or less likely, at any rate).

Something like bowling 3 no balls at certain moments in time has virtually no effect on the outcome of the match. And people betting on things like that need to get their head checked, to be honest. I can't see a scenario why someone would bet on something like that unless they had some "insider information".

Both bowlers involved in spot-fixing deserve punishments because what they did was wrong and probably in violation of the ACSU. However, we do need to take into account the fact that what they fixed was in respect to other corruption in cricket matches, very minor. I would certainly prefer players bowling no balls at opportune moments than them getting paid to bat or bowl worse than they are capable of, or running their teammates out because they've fixed the outcome of the game.

Butt, though, has to go for good, since it appears, at least from early reports, that his role was very much like the Cronje or Azhar role of past--in that he was basically interfacing with the bookies and setting up the fixed events. That is something your captain has to absolutely stay away from since you're picking him to lead the team with integrity and more than the other players, he is representative of your country.