A quick group think project, if anyone would be so kind as to chip in their views.
Ideally, I need to split the pitches of the world into six or seven main types. I have an idea of this, but happy to reach out to others to see what their views are. I'd probably go with the following:
England - Grassy, Medium
Australia - Dry, Hard
Asia - Dusty, Medium
South Africa - Grassy/Dry, Hard (I think grassy/dry is a choice)
New Zealand - Grassy, Hard
West Indies - Dry/?, Hard (I feel like there's a pitch type that would work but can't think what and I'm not in front of my PS4 to check the full list of pitch types)
Could split "Asia" into India plus Pakistan/Bangladesh etc, lots of ways to do it. Either way, I need a list of 6 or 7 parts of the world and the pitch type and hardness for each.
There is however another layer, if you wanted to get more into it - such as individual tracks in these countries i.e. The Oval is the bounciest track in England generally, Trent Bridge the most bowler friendly in tests, the SCG is best track in Oz for spin - though this might be going too far?
There is however another layer, if you wanted to get more into it - such as individual tracks in these countries i.e. The Oval is the bounciest track in England generally, Trent Bridge the most bowler friendly in tests, the SCG is best track in Oz for spin - though this might be going too far?
No, that's all fine providing there's enough data to back it up. If there's enough of a lean to be more ground specific, I'm all for it. It can't just be for a handful of places though.
There is some data out there tho, I referenced it in my previous slider thread.
Friday update, as I don't normally get on much until the start of the week.
One, thanks for some of the feedback on pitch types. Once I've got six or seven nailed down I'll plough on with my project.
Speaking of which, here's a peek at what I'm currently working on:
An excel sheet with drop down box to select where you're playing and auto-populating base sliders. The current work is in honing the other pages in the spreadsheet to plug in what the slider values should be for those drop down options.
I've also added a home and away box for each slider. Red Ball Data is an excellent source of cricket data that you should totally check out if you're a nerd like me that enjoys stats and data.
This article shows how home advantage is a thing in test cricket. As such, the extra columns will show you what values you could use if you are playing at home or away. For example, if you are away, the AI timing is slightly higher (the AI is better, they're at home), and if you're at home, the AI timing is slightly lower (they're the away team, so should struggle a touch more). This is still a work in progress, both in terms of what sliders need to be altered, which don't, and by how much.
Of course, base sliders are still there for people who want to ignore all that, or just play neutral tests and whatever else.
Oh, and I found a great research piece on DRS in Test cricket, so I'll sift through that and see what sort of use it could give for umpire sliders.
It's muddled a bit by the referral slider in game just being 1-100, so is that a direct conversion to percentage, or do we just have to work it out? Either way, the take away is that LBW referrals trump all in terms of volume.
Happy playing folks, hope you're getting some fun out of the game. I know I have (when I do get on ha)!
Does anyone know if the run rate slider would mitigate the AI scoring one boundary every over? Regardless of where the ball is pitched, field, they must get that boundary. So bloody annoying.
Does anyone know if the run rate slider would mitigate the AI scoring one boundary every over? Regardless of where the ball is pitched, field, they must get that boundary. So bloody annoying.
Im on 18 currently and its far more palatable on that than it was on the 25 i had it. Can actually bowl reasonably regular maidens in a test, sure sometimes they will still do it but nowhere near as much - still go along at anywhere from 2.7 to 3.5 an over too so it doesnt artificially limit the AI when they bat - give it a go.
@WealeyH im going to start another test in the Windies later, given the discussions here im going to go with a grassy/dusty pitch to best represent the caribbean pitches - would you suggest any alterations from the base slider set we still have for Australia to more faithfully show WI games' nature?
Im on 18 currently and its far more palatable on that than it was on the 25 i had it. Can actually bowl reasonably regular maidens in a test, sure sometimes they will still do it but nowhere near as much - still go along at anywhere from 2.7 to 3.5 an over too so it doesnt artificially limit the AI when they bat - give it a go.
@WealeyH im going to start another test in the Windies later, given the discussions here im going to go with a grassy/dusty pitch to best represent the caribbean pitches - would you suggest any alterations from the base slider set we still have for Australia to more faithfully show WI games' nature?
Im on 18 currently and its far more palatable on that than it was on the 25 i had it. Can actually bowl reasonably regular maidens in a test, sure sometimes they will still do it but nowhere near as much - still go along at anywhere from 2.7 to 3.5 an over too so it doesnt artificially limit the AI when they bat - give it a go.
@WealeyH im going to start another test in the Windies later, given the discussions here im going to go with a grassy/dusty pitch to best represent the caribbean pitches - would you suggest any alterations from the base slider set we still have for Australia to more faithfully show WI games' nature?
To build on this @GuyIncognito, I'd echo what Ken said about an 18-20 run rate. I bowled 6 maidens in 7 overs in my last test, with Broad at one end and Root at the other. That was with a run rate of 20, I believe.
The AI will always score, but as Wealey has suggested in the past, giving the AI a reasonable release valve is the best solution. Instead of trying to stop every run, drop your point out to deep point, or mid-off to deep mid-off, or backward square to deep backward square etc.
That way the AI can run you down there for a single or two in an over, but won't do five dots than auto find the gap for a boundary. Sounds daft that providing easy scoring opportunities would actually make game play better, but I've certainly found merit in it.
@Ken Tremendous, for your WI pitch, all the data points to that being a part of the world that favours bowlers the most. That and SA.
This graphic suggests as much anyway:
The explanation is in this post, if you've not seen it before (I am a shameless self-promoter of the stuff I've already posted, so you probably have!).
Can I suggest you use the last "bowler-friendly" slider set that I posted to see how you get on. I think the settings I posted are a bit too far towards a bowler for England, though it was a good data capture/test. I would say such sliders would be better for somewhere like the West Indies, with a few modifications. Maybe turn the spin revs up a bit to bring the spinners into play more, that'd be one for sure.
I think there's some gains to be made in the relationship between bowling min/max speed and the new visual speed sliders, tuning one to give better gameplay whilst utilising the other to address any visual effects. That'd need more testing.
I'd suggest more of a 70/80 Gabba style min/max spread to get the ball zipping through on a WI pitch, or experiment with leaving the min/max on my English grassy 67/78 or even 65/75, and turn the visual speeds up by 2/3/5 to compensate.
Im on 18 currently and its far more palatable on that than it was on the 25 i had it. Can actually bowl reasonably regular maidens in a test, sure sometimes they will still do it but nowhere near as much - still go along at anywhere from 2.7 to 3.5 an over too so it doesnt artificially limit the AI when they bat - give it a go.
@WealeyH im going to start another test in the Windies later, given the discussions here im going to go with a grassy/dusty pitch to best represent the caribbean pitches - would you suggest any alterations from the base slider set we still have for Australia to more faithfully show WI games' nature?
On the run rate argument as well I tend to find the AI bat far FAR better when they have a release valve. I always have attacking fields but will sometimes play with no mid on. Or have a sweeper on cover boundary etc.
If they are allowed to tick a few singles etc they never do the last ball smash etc.
I at one point only had four boundaries in 15 overs against me.
Also lower shot force!
To build on this @GuyIncognito, I'd echo what Ken said about an 18-20 run rate. I bowled 6 maidens in 7 overs in my last test, with Broad at one end and Root at the other. That was with a run rate of 20, I believe.
The AI will always score, but as Wealey has suggested in the past, giving the AI a reasonable release valve is the best solution. Instead of trying to stop every run, drop your point out to deep point, or mid-off to deep mid-off, or backward square to deep backward square etc.
That way the AI can run you down there for a single or two in an over, but won't do five dots than auto find the gap for a boundary. Sounds daft that providing easy scoring opportunities would actually make game play better, but I've certainly found merit in it.
@Ken Tremendous, for your WI pitch, all the data points to that being a part of the world that favours bowlers the most. That and SA.
This graphic suggests as much anyway:
View attachment 259528
The explanation is in this post, if you've not seen it before (I am a shameless self-promoter of the stuff I've already posted, so you probably have!).
Can I suggest you use the last "bowler-friendly" slider set that I posted to see how you get on. I think the settings I posted are a bit too far towards a bowler for England, though it was a good data capture/test. I would say such sliders would be better for somewhere like the West Indies, with a few modifications. Maybe turn the spin revs up a bit to bring the spinners into play more, that'd be one for sure.
I think there's some gains to be made in the relationship between bowling min/max speed and the new visual speed sliders, tuning one to give better gameplay whilst utilising the other to address any visual effects. That'd need more testing.
I'd suggest more of a 70/80 Gabba style min/max spread to get the ball zipping through on a WI pitch, or experiment with leaving the min/max on my English grassy 67/78 or even 65/75, and turn the visual speeds up by 2/3/5 to compensate.
Going to put my Gabba sliders up in a bit. Batting wise it may be too hard or easy for you guys but it’s set up to be flatter than Rumples green deck. But the AI batted well on what I wanted to be a bit of a road!
Playing a test in Aus against Aus using the Dry Hard Aus slider set, on legend difficulty (wicket chance left at 50 but RR dropped to 18). This is my 3rd go at a test on these sliders and I have to say they are brilliant, currently Aus are 512-7 against me, 2 of those are run outs too which ive been trying to avoid by throwing to the wrong end because they annoy me. Couple of questions for you guys is how do you plan your bowling, ive gone into the team manager to look at my bowlers strengths and built from there but it just seems so monotonous bowling and you're almost just waiting for the scripted wicket rather than something youve planned. Second question is how does base difficulty affect the sliders, ie. Whats the difference between 50 wicket chance on veteran vs legend? Sorry for the long post but in short, love the sliders and appreciate what you guys do
Playing a test in Aus against Aus using the Dry Hard Aus slider set, on legend difficulty (wicket chance left at 50 but RR dropped to 18). This is my 3rd go at a test on these sliders and I have to say they are brilliant, currently Aus are 512-7 against me, 2 of those are run outs too which ive been trying to avoid by throwing to the wrong end because they annoy me. Couple of questions for you guys is how do you plan your bowling, ive gone into the team manager to look at my bowlers strengths and built from there but it just seems so monotonous bowling and you're almost just waiting for the scripted wicket rather than something youve planned. Second question is how does base difficulty affect the sliders, ie. Whats the difference between 50 wicket chance on veteran vs legend? Sorry for the long post but in short, love the sliders and appreciate what you guys do
Firstly, I'll just plug away line and length on 5th stump with a new batsman. That's my stock strategy. Bring the stumps into play if I can, but that's the goal.
If that doesn't work, I usually move on to working through a mixed bag of deliveries, different deliveries with different lengths and speeds, then exploit something if I find any success. A play and miss, an edge that's safe, something that hits the pads.
I'll throw down the fuller out swinger to drive, the in swinger on the toes, the cutter, bounce them, slower ball yorker, cross seamer back of a length, see if the AI struggles or plays and misses. If they do, I'll generally try and work with that delivery to see if I can challenge them to find a solution. Bit of a one day approach, keep it varied.
I'd already bowled nearly 80 balls at Roston Chase, but then found success with an off-cutter from wide of the crease that keeps coming in. Nearly got an LBW. Decided to do the same thing but with in swing, AI still had no answer. Third time I took his peg out. Job done.
I agree that bowling to a plan is tricky in this game at times, and things can be scripted, because, well, they are I suppose. It's always tough when the AI is piling on the runs regardless. Sometimes that's just the pitch and the players and you can't do anything about it regardless of approach, just hope you do the same when you do get a bat!
As for the difficulty thing, I believe it was @MattW that said somewhere else (I honestly can't remember where) that sliders are difficulty relative. Think of them as like a continuation of a scale. So a slider of 30 on Legend will be harder than a 75 on veteran, but it will be easier than the base difficulty of legend but still harder than anything you can do on veteran, if that makes sense.
How much difference there'd be between say, 99 on veteran and 1 on legend idk, but they should pretty much be next to each other on the "scale", as it were.
Hopefully Matt can pop on and tell me how terrible my memory is!
Firstly, I'll just plug away line and length on 5th stump with a new batsman. That's my stock strategy. Bring the stumps into play if I can, but that's the goal.
If that doesn't work, I usually move on to working through a mixed bag of deliveries, different deliveries with different lengths and speeds, then exploit something if I find any success. A play and miss, an edge that's safe, something that hits the pads.
I'll throw down the fuller out swinger to drive, the in swinger on the toes, the cutter, bounce them, slower ball yorker, cross seamer back of a length, see if the AI struggles or plays and misses. If they do, I'll generally try and work with that delivery to see if I can challenge them to find a solution. Bit of a one day approach, keep it varied.
I'd already bowled nearly 80 balls at Roston Chase, but then found success with an off-cutter from wide of the crease that keeps coming in. Nearly got an LBW. Decided to do the same thing but with in swing, AI still had no answer. Third time I took his peg out. Job done.
I agree that bowling to a plan is tricky in this game at times, and things can be scripted, because, well, they are I suppose. It's always tough when the AI is piling on the runs regardless. Sometimes that's just the pitch and the players and you can't do anything about it regardless of approach, just hope you do the same when you do get a bat!
As for the difficulty thing, I believe it was @MattW that said somewhere else (I honestly can't remember where) that sliders are difficulty relative. Think of them as like a continuation of a scale. So a slider of 30 on Legend will be harder than a 75 on veteran, but it will be easier than the base difficulty of legend but still harder than anything you can do on veteran, if that makes sense.
How much difference there'd be between say, 99 on veteran and 1 on legend idk, but they should pretty much be next to each other on the "scale", as it were.
Hopefully Matt can pop on and tell me how terrible my memory is!
Sorry late to the party , have you guys published screenshots of the complete set of sliders anywhere you use for test or ODI , or is it a case of read through this section to find everything, just being lazy as used the screenshots published by forum members for C19 settings ?
Sorry late to the party , have you guys published screenshots of the complete set of sliders anywhere you use for test or ODI , or is it a case of read through this section to find everything, just being lazy as used the screenshots published by forum members for C19 settings ?
Can I suggest you use the last "bowler-friendly" slider set that I posted to see how you get on. I think the settings I posted are a bit too far towards a bowler for England, though it was a good data capture/test. I would say such sliders would be better for somewhere like the West Indies, with a few modifications. Maybe turn the spin revs up a bit to bring the spinners into play more, that'd be one for sure.
I think there's some gains to be made in the relationship between bowling min/max speed and the new visual speed sliders, tuning one to give better gameplay whilst utilising the other to address any visual effects. That'd need more testing.
I'd suggest more of a 70/80 Gabba style min/max spread to get the ball zipping through on a WI pitch, or experiment with leaving the min/max on my English grassy 67/78 or even 65/75, and turn the visual speeds up by 2/3/5 to compensate.
Im about to start this, at Sabina Park, a very bowler friendly deck.
Ive gone with your bowler friendly setup a couple of pages back (even the ump settings) and upped Spin Revs from 25 to 30 as you suggest and gone with 70/80 min/max speed.
Made both teams (me WI, AI is NZ) play two spinners.
Ive even set the crowd cap to low to simulate how few people attend tests in the Windies - place sounds dead only a few hundred in!
Ill let you know how i get on, probably when im skittled for 100!
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