Smith can give Australia leggie to stand on, but not before 2012: Jenner

[sohum]

I tend to agree, as I said earlier, the media love to turn a sound bite into a headline, but if there's only been one Australian leggie that was "world class", there can't exactly have been too many from elsewhere.

I don't understand your sentence. There have been plenty of strong leg-spinners around the world, though obviously not as good as Warne has been.

From India, Chandrasekhar, Gupte and Hirwani come to mind, apart from Kumble. Pakistan had Abdul Qadir and to a certain extend Mushtaq Ahmed. Of course these bowlers did not reach the dizzying heights of Shane Warne, but they were match-winners for their country and had nearly as much utility.

Basically, you cannot measure a coach's talent based on his best pupil. You have to look at the median pupil and see how well he has fared. Otherwise, it could well have been a coincidence that one met the other.

 

[manee]

Clever headline, it has to be said.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

I don't understand your sentence. There have been plenty of strong leg-spinners around the world, though obviously not as good as Warne has been.

From India, Chandrasekhar, Gupte and Hirwani come to mind, apart from Kumble. Pakistan had Abdul Qadir and to a certain extend Mushtaq Ahmed. Of course these bowlers did not reach the dizzying heights of Shane Warne, but they were match-winners for their country and had nearly as much utility.

Basically, you cannot measure a coach's talent based on his best pupil. You have to look at the median pupil and see how well he has fared. Otherwise, it could well have been a coincidence that one met the other.

If you are going by older spinners, the Aussies had Bill O'Reily, Benaud, Grimmet, Kerry O'Keefe, Armstrong...

 

[sohum]

If you are going by older spinners, the Aussies had Bill O'Reily, Benaud, Grimmet, Kerry O'Keefe, Armstrong...

Of the guys you've listed, only Benaud played against subcontinental teams (apart from O'Keeffe's 5 test matches against Pakistan where he didn't even have much success). Taking wickets against opponents like England, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies as a spinner, back in the days when no one really understood spin, should be something that is not overlooked. No doubting that these guys had abilities, but we never really got the chance to see them play against the quality players of spin (of course, Indians probably weren't really quality players of spin at that time, anyway).

From Australia, I would put down Warne, Benaud and MacGill as the biggest leg-spinners to come out of the country. However, the line seems to stop there when it comes to spinners.

In my opinion, Australia should stop trying to replace Warne. Good wrist spinners only come along once in a while. In fact, if you look at international sides today, the only real wrist-spinners you see in action are Muralitharan and Kaneria (barely). Wrist spin is hard to perfect at the international level, and I think a lot more credit should go to Warne for his achievements than to Terry Jenner. If Jenner is indeed a miracle man of sorts, he should have unearthed someone else by now, no?

 

[Left_Hander]

Saw him in a the Glenn McGrath testimonal Twenty20 (yeah I know it is only Twenty20 ) match against Queensland and Queensland looked certain that they were going to win but he came one and got 4/15 off 3 overs to give win us the match.

Here is the link to the scorecard:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/australiandomestic/engine/match/298386.html

 

[angryangy]

Yeah, I don't think coaches are miracle workers. I think that was Warne's own problem with Buchanan.

 

[mattfb]

Saw him in a the Glenn McGrath testimonal Twenty20 (yeah I know it is only Twenty20 ) match against Queensland and Queensland looked certain that they were going to win but he came one and got 4/15 off 3 overs to give win us the match.

Here is the link to the scorecard:
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/australiandomestic/engine/match/298386.html

Yep, thats the one I saw.

 

[smssia0112]

Jenner certainly didn't get lucky with Warne, as I said, he took Warne from a fat, overweight cricketer with talent but the wrong attitude and turned him into one of the best spinners of all time. And whenever Warne was losing his rhythm, in stepped Jenner and fixed him up.

That doesn't make him the best coach of all time, maybe he's not even the best in the world, but it does make him a great coach.

 

[sohum]

Jenner certainly didn't get lucky with Warne, as I said, he took Warne from a fat, overweight cricketer with talent but the wrong attitude and turned him into one of the best spinners of all time. And whenever Warne was losing his rhythm, in stepped Jenner and fixed him up.

That doesn't make him the best coach of all time, maybe he's not even the best in the world, but it does make him a great coach.

What did the "turn him into" and "fix him up" entail? Are there no other fat, overweight cricketers with talent in Australia who bowl leg-spin, these days?

 

[Animator!]

I do think Jenner is a fantastic coach. I think that argument that there are plenty of un-noticed guys in India who coach these good standard spinners is a bit redundant because India is so spin friendly and it's such a popular art over there that by the very nature of statistic you're likely to get a few good spinners and a couple of world class ones. However for everyone one of those I'm sure there are 10 who are utterly hopeless and won't even play past local level. Whereas in Australia, mostly the enviroment is so set up at times for spinners to be utter canon fodder, as has been shown by world class spinners failures to make an impact - Murali's average in Australia - then taking that into account, I think we do have to credit Jenner with some considerable knowledge and ability to create a great bowler. I'm not saying he can take anyone, Warne obviously did have something about him, but he played a vital role in turning Warne into the player that he became.

 

[smssia0112]

What did the "turn him into" and "fix him up" entail? Are there no other fat, overweight cricketers with talent in Australia who bowl leg-spin, these days?

He fixed a lot of flaws in his bowling action and technique, and was also someone who could help Warne calm down when he was out of control. A lot of it is detailed in 'Spun Out', an unauthorised biography by journalist Paul Barry (one which wasn't very complementary in a lot of ways, plus Barry is a Brit).

 

[aussie1st]

Once again we have a Steven Smith article around this time.

Smith back aiming for his peak Smith back aiming for his peak - Cricket - Sport

I like the look of his flipper, it's got Warne like potential and its already got a few batsmen including the ones I saw in the Champions League. Its nice to see him working with Warne on his leg break, if he gets that right, it shouldn't be too long before he makes it.

Never knew the English were chasing him but why wouldn't you when hes taking 6-14 for Surrey Second XI against Kent.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I would like to see some of the young australian spinners look to work on their spinning their own way. Maybe consult some other players, it just seems whenever a young aussie spinner emerges all they do is go on about how they're going to get Warne to show them how to bowl.

I remember Hussey speaking about advice Warne gave him on entering the test team, and it was "be yourself." none of them are going to be the next warne so why bother trying.

Mendis hasn't tried to be murali in a single way and he's the most succesful young spinner about.