Smith can give Australia leggie to stand on, but not before 2012: Jenner

[mattfb]

Wow, I was surprised to read Steven Smith on that quote there. I think everyone knows how biased i am towards NSW players () but this is too far. Yet to make a first class 50 or do anything spectacular, hes hardly played many shield games, the only time i remember seeing him is in a Twenty20 game, which he did ok mind you. I will no doubt keep a real close eye on him and Victorias spinner, Holland when I go to NSW vs Victoria. If I go to the Shield game I'll check out how much spin both players are getting on the pitch.

I still cant believe people have made this comparison. He wont even turn into a full time spinner. He's more of a bowling allrounder I think.

 

[genghis_khan]

Australia will look to McGain until Smith is ready. They just have to hope he lives up to potential or else they'll have to look at someone else.

Oh will they now...and how would you know that?

Xavier Doherty needs to be given a go ASAP...or Aaron Heal.

 

[angryangy]

We're turning into England, touting young spinners as the next Warne then we never hear of them again.

Yeah, this is a bit much, sensationalism at its best.

He won't be anywhere near contention until he's 23 and then letting him into the Test side at that age is to assume he's the ilk of Warne or MacGill. If he's not, it could take him many more years to be ready.

In the mean time, what could be about 10,000 deliveries of slow bowling are going to have to come from somewhere else.

 

[smssia0112]

We're turning into England, touting young spinners as the next Warne then we never hear of them again.

Well:

Cameron White - compared to Warne, now a batting all rounder. Test match spinner though.
Dan Cullen - compared to Warne (though as an off spin version), played a test early in his career, but has struggled to cement a spot in the SA FC side since (back in favour this year)
Cullen Bailey - compared to Warne, promised early and now in the SA 2nd XI.

Now here comes Steve Smith. Let's hope he's not as disappointing as the rest. I really hate it when people compare our spinners to Warney, there will probably never be another spinner like Shane Warne, and comparisons just make it harder for them to become stars in their own right.

aus5892 added 5 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

Oh will they now...and how would you know that?

Xavier Doherty needs to be given a go ASAP...or Aaron Heal.

There's another couple of promising ones, the problem is that McGain and MacGill were the only ones actually performing in FC cricket. Now MacGill is gone, and McGain is injured.

It's come to a stage where we have to pick on potential rather than form. And saying that, I reckon Dan Cullen is our best option.

 

[tassietiger]

Oh will they now...and how would you know that?

Xavier Doherty needs to be given a go ASAP...or Aaron Heal.

I'm all for Tassie boys playing for their country, but don't let Xavier Doherty near the Test team. He can contain batsmen, and he is a smart batsman too, but he won't be any better than Cameron White as far as wicket-taking is concerned. Heal is not the worst option.

 

[angryangy]

I think Heal has the containment ability and at the very least has proven that given sufficient conditions, he can get 10 wickets in a match. WA generally seem to prefer 4 pacemen and it's a shame. What we really need is to see guys like this on Aus A tours.

However, it is apparent that Australia don't really want a finger spinner; and really, lust for Warne comparisons aside, why should they? In Australia, Murali averages 75 and Harbhajan averages 73. Unless some serious change occurs in the pitches, wrist spin is more likely to be effective in Australia's home matches and thus more effective overall. At this point, 30 wickets in a season would put any wrist spinner in contention.

 

[sohum]

Terry Jenner would have to be the best spinning coach in the world. If he reckons this kid has what it takes, I'd take his word for it. New South Wales better start bowling him.

In the world minus India. You don't know names of any Indian spinning coaches (as don't I) because they're a dime-a-dozen. In fact, the only coach whose name I know is Ramakant Achrekar--who was Sachin's first coach.

 

[RoboRocks]

Oh will they now...and how would you know that?

Xavier Doherty needs to be given a go ASAP...or Aaron Heal.

You'd think with the amount of wickets that McGain has taken. He hails in caparison to the other spinners and Smith wouldn't be given a go until he does something impressive.

England are in the same boat to some extent with Rashid (as I mentioned earlier). Monty has not been at his best this year, which is slightly worring since his batting and fielding are substandard, and Greame Swann, although a good bowler, doesn't have the same wicket taking ablity. So England are just about resisting pick Rashid before he is ready.

McGain has to be the option for Australia at the moment until a young spinner comes on the scene and makes a postive impact and if managed right Smith maybe the man.

 

[aussie1st]

W

Cameron White - compared to Warne, now a batting all rounder. Test match spinner though.
Dan Cullen - compared to Warne (though as an off spin version), played a test early in his career, but has struggled to cement a spot in the SA FC side since (back in favour this year)
Cullen Bailey - compared to Warne, promised early and now in the SA 2nd XI.

Of the 3 mentioned here only White is the only one we can class as not for the future. Dan Cullen certainly started the season well. Bailey and Cullen both had the usual case of 2nd year syndrome which a number of players including Hilfy and probably Hughes this year have had. Hopefully with less spot light on them they will start to perform.

On Smith if he can turn the ball that is a good start for him as clearly our problem right now is the spinner not turning it. Then comes the other factors like flight, variation and control.

 

[tassietiger]

In the world minus India. You don't know names of any Indian spinning coaches (as don't I) because they're a dime-a-dozen. In fact, the only coach whose name I know is Ramakant Achrekar--who was Sachin's first coach.

Terry Jenner mentored Warney, changing him from a tubby slogger who would rather play footy into one of the greatest bowlers of all time, if not the greatest. He can spot talent. I'm not saying he's the only spinning coach out there, but he's the most sought after one. He's done a fair bit of work in India, as well. Can't think of why he would bother if spinning coaches are a dime a dozen over there.

 

[smssia0112]

Jenner was definitely a major influence in making Warne a good bowler, every time Warne was going downhill it was Jenner who got him back on track, back being a good bowler. He is definitely a genius.

aus5892 added 1 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

Of the 3 mentioned here only White is the only one we can class as not for the future. Dan Cullen certainly started the season well. Bailey and Cullen both had the usual case of 2nd year syndrome which a number of players including Hilfy and probably Hughes this year have had. Hopefully with less spot light on them they will start to perform.

On Smith if he can turn the ball that is a good start for him as clearly our problem right now is the spinner not turning it. Then comes the other factors like flight, variation and control.

Shame that Cosgrove hasn't got out of his rut now that the attention has died down though.

But certainly I still rate them as good prospects for the future. Jenner said something interesting about Bailey, that limited overs cricket was ruining his action because his coaches told him he needed to be more economical and tried to change him, which ruined his wicket taking.

I knew Twenty20 was ruining cricket!

 

[angryangy]

I don't think it's just Jenner, I think Australian coaches in general have found a lot of attention in the world. Troy Cooley is probably one of the bigger names in bowling, but I know Dennis Lillee and Bruce Reid have mentored fast bowlers. Beyond specialist coaches though, there's also been Dav Whatmore, John Dyson, Jamie Siddons, Bennett King, Tom Moody, Trevor Bayliss, Greg Chappell and Geoff Lawson in recent memory as international coaches. Rod Marsh was also a key developmental figure in ushering the current era of English cricket. Even someone like Michael Mott, who's only been in charge of NSW since Bayliss took over Sri Lanka is said to be in contention for the New Zealand job.

I don't know whether it's mostly reputation, the competition in which they ply their trade or what, but it is obvious that they are a popular resource.

 

[aussie1st]

Shame that Cosgrove hasn't got out of his rut now that the attention has died down though.

But certainly I still rate them as good prospects for the future. Jenner said something interesting about Bailey, that limited overs cricket was ruining his action because his coaches told him he needed to be more economical and tried to change him, which ruined his wicket taking.

I knew Twenty20 was ruining cricket!

Probably needs a chance by SA to prove himself again.

I agree that 20 and 50 over cricket is ruining our spinners and in a way our pacemen too. Bracken and Johnson are prime examples of players that have had to change their game for ODI and struggled to recover for Test. Both of them lost their swing to be more economical, Bracken at least has got it back. Hauritz would be the spinning example, being again told to keep it economical and thus losing his wicket taking ability. The bowlers have to be told to play their normal game or we are always going to be seeing bowlers losing their ability to take wickets in the longer form of the game.

 

[sohum]

Terry Jenner mentored Warney, changing him from a tubby slogger who would rather play footy into one of the greatest bowlers of all time, if not the greatest. He can spot talent. I'm not saying he's the only spinning coach out there, but he's the most sought after one. He's done a fair bit of work in India, as well. Can't think of why he would bother if spinning coaches are a dime a dozen over there.

I think he may well have become lucky with Warnie, just as Ramakant may have gotten lucky with Sachin. After all, if he was as good as you make him out to be, surely there would be a factory of half-decent spinners being generated in Australia?

From the little research I did, Jenner has conducted one camp in Chennai but not much apart from that. I'm not sure if what he did had a great effect in the long-run, since we have a host of resources available to us in the form of former players. I would like to know if Amit Mishra and Piyush Chawla were among those at the camp, although one has to keep in mind that the camp seemed to be held sometime in 2007, whereas Mishra and Chawla had been dominating the domestic and junior circuits for a while.

sohummisra added 2 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

I don't think it's just Jenner, I think Australian coaches in general have found a lot of attention in the world.

Australian coaches are generally favored due to their work ethic and their competitive attitude towards the game (never say die-ish) rather than talent in their respective departments of the game. Though I will admit that Dennis Lillee and I think Bruce Reid (as well as maybe Thompson) have been really active on the MRF Pace Academy in mentoring Indian pace bowlers. I just find it a bit rich that a bloke from a country that has produced 1, maybe 2, world-class leg-spinners is being treated as a kind of messiah just because one of his students was extremely successful.

 

[angryangy]

I just find it a bit rich that a bloke from a country that has produced 1, maybe 2, world-class leg-spinners is being treated as a kind of messiah just because one of his students was extremely successful.

I tend to agree, as I said earlier, the media love to turn a sound bite into a headline, but if there's only been one Australian leggie that was "world class", there can't exactly have been too many from elsewhere.