Probably CA wants to taste him before the tour of india, he was there before I guess, Sunil Gavaskar Rates him " Very Good Batsman
South Africa Tour Of Australia : 3 Test & 3 ODI : (17 Dec 2022 till 17 Jan 2023)
- Thread starter Gurukirat
- Start date
Theunis Bruyn to miss sydney test.....
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Mitchell Starc doubtful for india tour with finger injury -- Cricinfo. Com
Theunis de Bruyn to miss Sydney Test for birth of first child
The batter will return home meaning the visitors will need to make at least one change to their line-up
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Mitchell Starc doubtful for india tour with finger injury -- Cricinfo. Com
Bevab
Staff Member
I noticed a very decent post on the cricketing subreddit for once on the topic of a SA lineup that isn’t trash and discovered in the end that it was made by none other than our @Aislabie. I don’t think there’s been a period of extended time when multiple fans and observers of cricket have made up a lineup for a test side that would actually function better than the one currently being put out. Just putrid stuff from SA’s selectors and captain really.
wasteyouryouth
Verified
I don't see much South African domestic cricket but I just don't imagine there's any great quality being held back. Temba Bavuma has the best average in test cricket over the last five years (aside from de Villiers) and he's not scored a century. Erwee, Markram, Verreynne and de Bryun are four players that have centuries but none of them average above 30 in that time. There's a few players knocking around with good records but I imagine some are probably inflated by provincial cricket or just lower standard of bowling in franchise cricket.
If anything they're probably a team that would benefit from an injection of Bazball cause they can't score runs when trying to play 'traditional' test cricket - which was a big problem for England. It seems like the format is on an accelerated decline in South Africa anyway. I couldn't see much harm in backing a younger side but that might lead to worse results, might not do them any harm to take a leaf out of Australia's book and give Rabada the captaincy.
Bevab
Staff Member
There’s definitely an argument to be made that this is not SA’s best test XI. I made this remark a year or two ago that their youngsters were not only equalling the efforts of the current ‘experienced newbies’ in domestic cricket but a few of them were even better which probably still holds true. They missed the boat on van Tonder for one. Rickelton has multiple centuries since he was omitted for having a dodgy ankle. Mulder only gets a token game every odd series which is the worst way to induct an all-rounder into the team. There are other blokes like Richards, de Zorzi who have demanded a fair run in the side for a while now. The older second division records do make it judge by purely averages (some are inflated and some are deflated badly due to early promotion for quotas) but the names I’ve listed all have solid recent FC records and time on their side to improve with potential. Blokes like Rassie, de Bruyn, Erwee do not have that upside of ‘well they’ll improve with time’ either so it makes no sense to even back them this much. It’s a very ‘his chance to play’ style of selection that we saw with Mahmood and Pakistan recently.
I don’t think SA have a three test series till 2026 after this and they’ve cut down on the number of tests internationally they wanna play alongside shortening their FC calendar so yeah… it does seem like they’ve put all their eggs in the SA20 basket both financially and from a cricket perspective. Their test selection policy is no doubt a reflection of that. The sport’s also not as popular as you’d expect with the majority of the population and the minority that enjoys it seems more willing to emigrate en masse with every passing day.
@Aislabie I'd say brilliant stuff on Reddit, but my account got banned for "connected account violations", unusual considering I have no connected accounts. But yeah, marvellous work.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
I'll copy the text of that post over to here:
So there is obviously more to the issue than just changing some names around, but at the same time let's change some names around.
Opening Batters
- Dean Elgar - He averages 27 as captain and 23 in his last 10 Tests. His captaincy has harmed his team, and his batting output has collapsed in turn. His 80-Test career has certainly earned him a long leash, but as captain he's run his race.
- Sarel Erwee - An average in the low-20s pretty much reflects his level at the moment. He's had flashes, but at 33 years of age he's not shown enough to cement a place in the team ahead of younger players who may well have more upside.
- Joshua Richards - A first-class average of nearly 50 and ten centuries in his first 32 games all go to show that he has both the ability to make big runs and the mentality to see it through.
- Tony de Zorzi - His overall average of 38 isn't outstanding, but this is partly due to the quota requirements in domestic cricket offering him a debut before he was necessarily ready to make the most of it, and affording him the leeway to get it right eventually. The same could easily happen at Test level.
- Jordan Hermann - He's played only eight first-class matches, but he's also averaged 75 in them. He's perhaps the opener after the next one, but Abdullah Shafique is a recent precedent for giving such a young player a run in the Test team.
- Theunis de Bruyn - He's been playing Test cricket on and off for five years, and he's made one score over 50. He averages 19. He is not the answer.
- Aiden Markram - Five Test centuries as an opener, but increasingly he has lost his grip against the moving ball. I still believe he has the game to make himself a long-term Test number four, but he shouldn't get back into the side without making an impact at first-class level.
- Zubayr Hamza - He's recently back from a doping suspension, and has one of the strongest first-class careers of any player in South Africa. His Test career is only six Tests old, but has been positively de Bruynian so far. Another player who will have to bat his way back into the side, but the door shouldn't be shut on him.
- Rassie van der Dussen - A batter who suffers from Dippenaar syndrome, his ODI average is more than double his Test average. Although 30 isn't by any means the worst mark in the team, it probably makes sense to let him focus on his strengths and to look elsewhere for a Test batter.
- Keegan Petersen - As is often the case for players of colour who were promoted young, he has a long first-class career behind him. At Test level he's already had 10 caps and averages about 30. By no means the worst, and should probably continue in the side once he returns from injury, but a century or two would be extremely nice to have in 2023.
- Temba Bavuma - A walking talking contradiction: the SA T20 captain, but overlooked for the SA T20 league. Only one hundred in 52 Tests, but in the conversation for the second-best batter in the team. Never quite sure of his place in the team, but could easily become the next captain. It is very curious.
- Janneman Malan - He has a slightly home-baked technique, but he also averages 48 in first-class cricket. So far, CSA has seen him as a white-ball specialist and they might not be wrong - but he also would do no worse than Theunis.
- Matthew Breetzke - Hyped up as a big talent, but his first-class numbers fail to live up to it. If selected, it'd be a Crawleyesque punt from a selection panel that ran out of other ideas.
- Raynard von Tonder - Everyone expected him to get his Test debut two years ago against Sri Lanka, only for "Project Restart" to immediately derail and for any plans of giving players a "soft" introduction into Test cricket were shelved. He still averages 46 though, which suggests real quality.
- Khaya Zondo - If Khaya Zondo is the answer, I'm not completely sure what the question is. A first-class average of 31 inspires absolutely nothing, and his second string of "bowls some off-breaks" hasn't been used once yet in international cricket. A player that would make slightly more sense playing alongside a four-man bowling attack, but no sense at all batting up at five.
- Kyle Verreynne - A combative batter who's perhaps batting a place too high as a Test number six, he definitely looks like South Africa's next ten-year wicket-keeper. South Africa will want to make sure that he's not burnt out by the pressures of carrying a failing batting order and keeping wicket. Knowing CSA they'll make him captain too.
- Quinton de Kock - He's retired from Test cricket to manage his workload, but CSA has shown they're not above begging retired players to come back. If he does then he walks straight in to bat at number five or six.
- Ryan Rickelton - The pre-eminent South African domestic batter, averaging 53 and having already racked up 14 centuries. Out of everyone, he needs to be in this Test team because he has the ability to bat for a very long time. Also appeared to have an abundance of time even against Test bowlers.
- Heinrich Klaasen - Highly thought of as a white-ball basher, but somewhat slept on as a Test batting prospect, Heinrich Klaasen has a first-class average of 47, and has kicked it up a gear this year by making his runs at seven an over in the CSA comp. If South Africa choose to "Bazball" their way out of trouble, then Klaasen would be a perfect fit.
So, that said:
Dean Elgar- Joshua Richards or Tony de Zorzi
- Keegan Petersen
- Temba Bavuma or Janneman Malan
- Ryan Rickelton
- Quinton de Kock or Heinrich Klaasen
- Kyle Verreynne
- Marco Jansen
- Keshav Maharaj or Simon Harmer
- Kagiso Rabada
- Anrich Nortje
- Lungi Ngidi is my first reserve bowler should any of the others need replacing for any reason.
So far so boring after 90 minutes of play on 3rd Sydney test, Aus won toss bats Lost Davey caught Jansen off Nortie for 10.I'll copy the text of that post over to here:
So there is obviously more to the issue than just changing some names around, but at the same time let's change some names around.
Opening Batters
Top-Order Batters
- Dean Elgar - He averages 27 as captain and 23 in his last 10 Tests. His captaincy has harmed his team, and his batting output has collapsed in turn. His 80-Test career has certainly earned him a long leash, but as captain he's run his race.
- Sarel Erwee - An average in the low-20s pretty much reflects his level at the moment. He's had flashes, but at 33 years of age he's not shown enough to cement a place in the team ahead of younger players who may well have more upside.
- Joshua Richards - A first-class average of nearly 50 and ten centuries in his first 32 games all go to show that he has both the ability to make big runs and the mentality to see it through.
- Tony de Zorzi - His overall average of 38 isn't outstanding, but this is partly due to the quota requirements in domestic cricket offering him a debut before he was necessarily ready to make the most of it, and affording him the leeway to get it right eventually. The same could easily happen at Test level.
- Jordan Hermann - He's played only eight first-class matches, but he's also averaged 75 in them. He's perhaps the opener after the next one, but Abdullah Shafique is a recent precedent for giving such a young player a run in the Test team.
Middle-Order
- Theunis de Bruyn - He's been playing Test cricket on and off for five years, and he's made one score over 50. He averages 19. He is not the answer.
- Aiden Markram - Five Test centuries as an opener, but increasingly he has lost his grip against the moving ball. I still believe he has the game to make himself a long-term Test number four, but he shouldn't get back into the side without making an impact at first-class level.
- Zubayr Hamza - He's recently back from a doping suspension, and has one of the strongest first-class careers of any player in South Africa. His Test career is only six Tests old, but has been positively de Bruynian so far. Another player who will have to bat his way back into the side, but the door shouldn't be shut on him.
- Rassie van der Dussen - A batter who suffers from Dippenaar syndrome, his ODI average is more than double his Test average. Although 30 isn't by any means the worst mark in the team, it probably makes sense to let him focus on his strengths and to look elsewhere for a Test batter.
- Keegan Petersen - As is often the case for players of colour who were promoted young, he has a long first-class career behind him. At Test level he's already had 10 caps and averages about 30. By no means the worst, and should probably continue in the side once he returns from injury, but a century or two would be extremely nice to have in 2023.
- Temba Bavuma - A walking talking contradiction: the SA T20 captain, but overlooked for the SA T20 league. Only one hundred in 52 Tests, but in the conversation for the second-best batter in the team. Never quite sure of his place in the team, but could easily become the next captain. It is very curious.
- Janneman Malan - He has a slightly home-baked technique, but he also averages 48 in first-class cricket. So far, CSA has seen him as a white-ball specialist and they might not be wrong - but he also would do no worse than Theunis.
- Matthew Breetzke - Hyped up as a big talent, but his first-class numbers fail to live up to it. If selected, it'd be a Crawleyesque punt from a selection panel that ran out of other ideas.
- Raynard von Tonder - Everyone expected him to get his Test debut two years ago against Sri Lanka, only for "Project Restart" to immediately derail and for any plans of giving players a "soft" introduction into Test cricket were shelved. He still averages 46 though, which suggests real quality.
There aren't presently any all-rounders I can easily think of with the ability to bat in the top six and contribute with the ball. The plan I have in mind would mean switching to a four-man bowling attack, so there's certainly room for one or more of these players to work on their bowling to at least offer a Markramesque part-time option.
- Khaya Zondo - If Khaya Zondo is the answer, I'm not completely sure what the question is. A first-class average of 31 inspires absolutely nothing, and his second string of "bowls some off-breaks" hasn't been used once yet in international cricket. A player that would make slightly more sense playing alongside a four-man bowling attack, but no sense at all batting up at five.
- Kyle Verreynne - A combative batter who's perhaps batting a place too high as a Test number six, he definitely looks like South Africa's next ten-year wicket-keeper. South Africa will want to make sure that he's not burnt out by the pressures of carrying a failing batting order and keeping wicket. Knowing CSA they'll make him captain too.
- Quinton de Kock - He's retired from Test cricket to manage his workload, but CSA has shown they're not above begging retired players to come back. If he does then he walks straight in to bat at number five or six.
- Ryan Rickelton - The pre-eminent South African domestic batter, averaging 53 and having already racked up 14 centuries. Out of everyone, he needs to be in this Test team because he has the ability to bat for a very long time. Also appeared to have an abundance of time even against Test bowlers.
- Heinrich Klaasen - Highly thought of as a white-ball basher, but somewhat slept on as a Test batting prospect, Heinrich Klaasen has a first-class average of 47, and has kicked it up a gear this year by making his runs at seven an over in the CSA comp. If South Africa choose to "Bazball" their way out of trouble, then Klaasen would be a perfect fit.
So, that said:
I've also not listed a captain because honestly, I have no idea who that should be. As the most secure player in the team there's an argument for Kyle Verreynne, just to add to his workload a little bit. Out of everyone listed, I'd lean to either Temba Bavuma (because of the respect he clearly commands within the team) or Heinrich Klaasen (for the vibes), but who really knows. I just know that it can't be Elgar in future.
Rain forcast for next 4 days.
Dull & Slow Proccedings so farI'll copy the text of that post over to here:
So there is obviously more to the issue than just changing some names around, but at the same time let's change some names around.
Opening Batters
Top-Order Batters
- Dean Elgar - He averages 27 as captain and 23 in his last 10 Tests. His captaincy has harmed his team, and his batting output has collapsed in turn. His 80-Test career has certainly earned him a long leash, but as captain he's run his race.
- Sarel Erwee - An average in the low-20s pretty much reflects his level at the moment. He's had flashes, but at 33 years of age he's not shown enough to cement a place in the team ahead of younger players who may well have more upside.
- Joshua Richards - A first-class average of nearly 50 and ten centuries in his first 32 games all go to show that he has both the ability to make big runs and the mentality to see it through.
- Tony de Zorzi - His overall average of 38 isn't outstanding, but this is partly due to the quota requirements in domestic cricket offering him a debut before he was necessarily ready to make the most of it, and affording him the leeway to get it right eventually. The same could easily happen at Test level.
- Jordan Hermann - He's played only eight first-class matches, but he's also averaged 75 in them. He's perhaps the opener after the next one, but Abdullah Shafique is a recent precedent for giving such a young player a run in the Test team.
Middle-Order
- Theunis de Bruyn - He's been playing Test cricket on and off for five years, and he's made one score over 50. He averages 19. He is not the answer.
- Aiden Markram - Five Test centuries as an opener, but increasingly he has lost his grip against the moving ball. I still believe he has the game to make himself a long-term Test number four, but he shouldn't get back into the side without making an impact at first-class level.
- Zubayr Hamza - He's recently back from a doping suspension, and has one of the strongest first-class careers of any player in South Africa. His Test career is only six Tests old, but has been positively de Bruynian so far. Another player who will have to bat his way back into the side, but the door shouldn't be shut on him.
- Rassie van der Dussen - A batter who suffers from Dippenaar syndrome, his ODI average is more than double his Test average. Although 30 isn't by any means the worst mark in the team, it probably makes sense to let him focus on his strengths and to look elsewhere for a Test batter.
- Keegan Petersen - As is often the case for players of colour who were promoted young, he has a long first-class career behind him. At Test level he's already had 10 caps and averages about 30. By no means the worst, and should probably continue in the side once he returns from injury, but a century or two would be extremely nice to have in 2023.
- Temba Bavuma - A walking talking contradiction: the SA T20 captain, but overlooked for the SA T20 league. Only one hundred in 52 Tests, but in the conversation for the second-best batter in the team. Never quite sure of his place in the team, but could easily become the next captain. It is very curious.
- Janneman Malan - He has a slightly home-baked technique, but he also averages 48 in first-class cricket. So far, CSA has seen him as a white-ball specialist and they might not be wrong - but he also would do no worse than Theunis.
- Matthew Breetzke - Hyped up as a big talent, but his first-class numbers fail to live up to it. If selected, it'd be a Crawleyesque punt from a selection panel that ran out of other ideas.
- Raynard von Tonder - Everyone expected him to get his Test debut two years ago against Sri Lanka, only for "Project Restart" to immediately derail and for any plans of giving players a "soft" introduction into Test cricket were shelved. He still averages 46 though, which suggests real quality.
There aren't presently any all-rounders I can easily think of with the ability to bat in the top six and contribute with the ball. The plan I have in mind would mean switching to a four-man bowling attack, so there's certainly room for one or more of these players to work on their bowling to at least offer a Markramesque part-time option.
- Khaya Zondo - If Khaya Zondo is the answer, I'm not completely sure what the question is. A first-class average of 31 inspires absolutely nothing, and his second string of "bowls some off-breaks" hasn't been used once yet in international cricket. A player that would make slightly more sense playing alongside a four-man bowling attack, but no sense at all batting up at five.
- Kyle Verreynne - A combative batter who's perhaps batting a place too high as a Test number six, he definitely looks like South Africa's next ten-year wicket-keeper. South Africa will want to make sure that he's not burnt out by the pressures of carrying a failing batting order and keeping wicket. Knowing CSA they'll make him captain too.
- Quinton de Kock - He's retired from Test cricket to manage his workload, but CSA has shown they're not above begging retired players to come back. If he does then he walks straight in to bat at number five or six.
- Ryan Rickelton - The pre-eminent South African domestic batter, averaging 53 and having already racked up 14 centuries. Out of everyone, he needs to be in this Test team because he has the ability to bat for a very long time. Also appeared to have an abundance of time even against Test bowlers.
- Heinrich Klaasen - Highly thought of as a white-ball basher, but somewhat slept on as a Test batting prospect, Heinrich Klaasen has a first-class average of 47, and has kicked it up a gear this year by making his runs at seven an over in the CSA comp. If South Africa choose to "Bazball" their way out of trouble, then Klaasen would be a perfect fit.
So, that said:
I've also not listed a captain because honestly, I have no idea who that should be. As the most secure player in the team there's an argument for Kyle Verreynne, just to add to his workload a little bit. Out of everyone listed, I'd lean to either Temba Bavuma (because of the respect he clearly commands within the team) or Heinrich Klaasen (for the vibes), but who really knows. I just know that it can't be Elgar in future.
Harmer in for South Africa.
Agar/ Renshaw & Hazelwood in playing xl.
Labu 602 in 7 test at Sydney.
Aus 12/1
48/1*
Unwell Renshaw test positive for COVID 19.i hope he recover but he already in playing xl.
Aus eye on Nagpur test
Bevab
Staff Member
On par for all the luck Marnus seems to get though.
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Third successive ton at the SCG.
wasteyouryouth
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