South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[PokerAce]

All that's fair, I just hate ODIs lol, they're a drag and in general just bore the hell out of me, so in the long term what I'd like to see happen is the end of ODI cricket in favor of more T20Is and more Tests, that way we can both support the big money making format and real cricket better.

I differ here. I think ODIs are real cricket. Tests ofcourse the definitive form of cricket, but ODI cricket has a lot going for it. 50 overs is a decent no. of overs, and the batsmen have the pressure to score quickly while the bowlers still get a reasonably fair shot at the batsmen. Bowlers still get 5-6 over spells to expose a batsman, and work him over. An out of form batsman still has time to work and play himself in. He cannot just hit a senseless shot and get out. In T20s a batsman out of form can just lash out at the first ball he faces and if he gets out its still fine. Not the case in ODIs.

Also in ODIs there is more collective team planning than in any form. What score to get, there is a strategy for each 5 - 10 overs. These are the overs to build an innings, now lets hit out. You can see how the team build their innings to a big score, I really like that aspect in ODIs. Consequently the teams then plan to counter that. In T20s its different, there is really no real planning, all you are hoping for is that the big hitter you have pays off.

There is on disputing the status of test cricket as the greatest form, but there are elements of tactics in ODIs that I enjoy watching. However even so, a bilateral series is not that great to watch.

 

[Epic]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, because my argument is purely subjective, it's just boring to me, I can't do anything about it.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I think ODI cricket certainly has it's place. Like PA said, it has elements of both test and t20 cricket and I find it fascinating. The reason it's 'boring' is because bilateral series have no eventuality about them. Cricket needs a test championship over two years, a world cup every 4 years (ODI), a champions trophy every year (very short, knockout not restricted to the big 3 as hosts), a t20 WC every two years, not20 internationals (franchise cricket is enough of an overdose).

So what we are looking at is as a team say called X

Test championship, 3 tests against every nation spread over 2 years, 1 home, 1 away and 1 neutral.

A champions trophy for 14-16 nations in a knockout format every year held in a different country every year. (ODI)

A WC every four years. (ODI)

A T20 WC every two years.

Franchise cricket T20 in respective nations.

This way, each international has an eventuality attached to it and a meaning.

 

[PokerAce]

Dhawan I hear could be ruled out for the SA T20s ... and perhaps even the first few ODIs.

 

[PokerAce]

I think every knows by now, India SA series frm now on will be played for the Gandhi Mandela Trophy.

 

[aditya123]

I think SA will start slight favorites in the ODIs and the tests as I see it. The SA batting has a lot of firepower and most of them are used to playing short form cricket in India. The tests would depend on how Steyn goes and the nature of the tracks. Mohali and Ahmedabad could be real dead tracks and one or both of those could end up being draws. Delhi has the potential to be a dustbowl while Bangalore has been traditionally a very sporting wicket. Recent tests in Bangalore have even had something to offer for the seamers. I see SA taking the ODIs 4-1 and either of the sides winning the tests 2-1.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

India go in as favorites in the tests. The South African side has no leadership at the moment and their bowling just doesn't seem impressive. Apart from ABdV, Hash, and perhaps Faf, there are no batsmen who'd strike fear into Ashwin and Co. and their wicket keeping situation is still not resolved. If their senior players don't turn up, things could get ugly real quick ala Australia tour of India 2013

 

[aditya123]

India go in as favorites in the tests. The South African side has no leadership at the moment and their bowling just doesn't seem impressive. Apart from ABdV, Hash, and perhaps Faf, there are no batsmen who'd strike fear into Ashwin and Co. and their wicket keeping situation is still not resolved. If their senior players don't turn up, things could get ugly real quick ala Australia tour of India 2013

What we are underestimating is the ability of the SA batsmen to play spin here. Faf, AB and Amla are all fantastic players of spin and have played a lot in India. It only takes a couple of players to have good tours in order to put up a good fight (Cook and KP in 2012). Steyn is potent with the old ball which can be crucial in India. Add to it the fact that India tours can usually produce new heroes, I don`t see this as an easy series for India.

 

[Gaurav_7]

Whoever thinks this is going to be an easy series because we are playing at home is really kidding himself. Remember what Monty Panesar did? Nathan Lyon troubled our batsmen too. Imran Tahir can be a threat for current Indian batsmen if they survive Steyn & co. SA batting is good with Amla, AB, Faf and others. I don't see our spinners rolling them over so easily as some people here seem to be thinking. It is going to be a challenge for us.

 

[Aalay]

The thing is Imran Tahir is very inconsistent bowler in the test format. I can say this from what I have seen of him before at the test level. However, the problem also is that Indian batsmen are not good players of spin anymore. They struggle to rotate strike and that is why we have struggled against the likes of Moeen Ali and Nathan Lyon. I am pretty sure that Imran Tahir won't start as the leading spinner and I think it will be Simon Harmer who has played the most recent test matches for South Africa. I also won't be worried too much about South Africa's spin bowling because their fast bowling is good enough to cover it up. Dale Steyn is clearly not at his best from what I have seen of him in last few matches of South Africa. Clearly not as lethal as he was when he came to India in 2009-10. However, he is a world class bowler so he is capable of turning that around.

As mentioned above, their batsmen are actually good players of spin and won't crumble against it like Australia did. AB, Faf, Amla are all good players of spin. I can't believe I am saying this but I think we will miss Ishant's bowling in the first test. It finally looked like he was getting some zip back to his bowling in Sri Lanka and now he is banned. Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are very raw right now so a bowling combination of both of them does not sound too promising.

I feel that test series will be very close and South Africa will start as favourites. However, I will be tempted to say that India will start as favourites in ODI's.

 

[Aalay]

Squad announced for preparatory camp - News - BCCI.tv

M S Dhoni, Virat Kohli, Shikhar Dhawan, Murali Vijay, KL Rahul, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Stuart Binny, Wriddhiman Saha, Naman Ojha, R Ashwin, Amit Mishra, Harbhajan Singh, Ishant Sharma, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron, Karun Nair, Suresh Raina, Mohammed Shami, Axar Patel, Pragyan Ojha, Ravindra Jadeja , Mohit Sharma, Karn Sharma, Ambati Rayudu, Dhawal Kulkarni, Kedar Jadhav, Manish Pandey.

Good to see Pragyan Ojha is still in selector's radar. Also good to see Shami back.

 

[Markkkkk]

Imran Tahir doesnt do very well because he bowls in South Africa where an attacking leg spinner wont do very well. Tahir will be a handful in subcontinent conditions where the ball actually spins...

 

[aditya123]

The thing is Imran Tahir is very inconsistent bowler in the test format. I can say this from what I have seen of him before at the test level. However, the problem also is that Indian batsmen are not good players of spin anymore. They struggle to rotate strike and that is why we have struggled against the likes of Moeen Ali and Nathan Lyon. I am pretty sure that Imran Tahir won't start as the leading spinner and I think it will be Simon Harmer who has played the most recent test matches for South Africa. I also won't be worried too much about South Africa's spin bowling because their fast bowling is good enough to cover it up. Dale Steyn is clearly not at his best from what I have seen of him in last few matches of South Africa. Clearly not as lethal as he was when he came to India in 2009-10. However, he is a world class bowler so he is capable of turning that around.

As mentioned above, their batsmen are actually good players of spin and won't crumble against it like Australia did. AB, Faf, Amla are all good players of spin. I can't believe I am saying this but I think we will miss Ishant's bowling in the first test. It finally looked like he was getting some zip back to his bowling in Sri Lanka and now he is banned. Umesh Yadav and Varun Aaron are very raw right now so a bowling combination of both of them does not sound too promising.

I feel that test series will be very close and South Africa will start as favourites. However, I will be tempted to say that India will start as favourites in ODI's.

On a more positive note, it is the off-spinners that have troubled us more than the leggies in the recent past. Even traditionally, Murali had more success against us than Warne. We have been pretty severe on legspinners. If Tahir gets picked, I don`t think we will have a problem. He was smashed around in Jo`burg as well if you remember.

 

[War]

I think S Africa should start young Rabada over Philander on Indian pitches, they way how he was bowing light speed on those flat Bangladesh surfaces recently was a sight.

 

[PokerAce]

[QUOTE="aditya123, post: 2986928, member: 2094"]I think SA will start slight favorites in the ODIs and the tests as I see it. The SA batting has a lot of firepower and most of them are used to playing short form cricket in India. The tests would depend on how Steyn goes and the nature of the tracks. Mohali and Ahmedabad could be real dead tracks and one or both of those could end up being draws. Delhi has the potential to be a dustbowl while Bangalore has been traditionally a very sporting wicket. Recent tests in Bangalore have even had something to offer for the seamers. I see SA taking the ODIs 4-1 and either of the sides winning the tests 2-1.[/QUOTE]

To be very honest, if the evidence of what SA did in B'desh is anything to go by, I would not bet on it. The slow bowlers had SA in a spin and India will have plenty of those to throw at SA. I am not saying India are going to wallop SA or anything like that, or that it is going to be a cakewalk or something.

But I haven't seen SA play spin convincingly enough. SA in B'desh apart from AB were a full strength batting unit, and they really found it hard to get the slow bowlers away. That is where the ODIs will hinge, just like tests. Could SA deal with the spinners? Going by what they did in B'desh, I would say things looking good for India in that dept.