South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[grkrama]

How can a good wicket have all teams been bowled out for such low totals every game? Utter nonsense...

Batsman ineptitude doesnt mean pitch is bad, this whole generation of pitch whiners sickens me!

Even NZ had said adelaide had too much grass after one game that is after gallons of runs in matches before what is wrong with this gen of batmsan, 200 used to be a very good score mind it!

India won world cup defending 183 Viv richards or fans didnt whine about pitches ..its time the batsman man up!

FFS being NO1 team is a position of pride! Should be taking on anything thrown at them!

 

[PokerAce]

I think most would say, Perth as there were plenty of runs being scored on it, and afterall people do like to see runs more than wickets falling.

 

[Aalay]

How can a good wicket have all teams been bowled out for such low totals every game? Utter nonsense...

What's nonsense about it? When none of your batsmen plays well, you can be bowled out for low totals every game. Apart from Vijay, none of the batsmen in this series have played well. None of the team has batted well and therefore you are seeing these scores.

I would watch Nagpur test over Perth one any day because it keeps you involved in the game all the time as a viewer. In Perth test, it got boring because evryone was coming out and scoring runs.

 

[stefan]

Lets not forget SA have the best record in Asia of any non SC team in the last 20 years. The great AUS team took 3 tries to win in India - no one was saying they weren't a proper # 1 because of those issues - since they won everywhere else.

Obviously this is first SC tour they have been without Smith & Kallis - if they were playing this series at the peak of their powers it might have aided the proteas..

Forgetting Sri Lanka 2014...Amla's first tour as captain no smith nor kallis won the series 1-0, first time in a long time we had beaten sri lanka in Sri Lanka and first time in a long time anyone had beaten them in Galle.

Every pitch that has been produced on this South African tour has been a "good wicket". The difference is, this South African team struggled against spinners more than the previous South African teams. Just because one team failed to adapt to the conditions does not mean it's not a good wicket.

Depends on your definition of good pitch...These pitches were nowhere close to the pitches produced for previous SA tours to India but you can keep on denying that if it makes you feel better.

 

[themusketeer]

Depends on your definition of good pitch...These pitches were nowhere close to the pitches produced for previous SA tours to India but you can keep on denying that if it makes you feel better.

You can keep denying the fact if it makes you feel better that none of your batsmen stepped up to show any type rigidity. They played rubbish shots, getting out on straight deliveries. Fact they are not good against spin.

 

[Markkkkk]

Batsman ineptitude doesnt mean pitch is bad, this whole generation of pitch whiners sickens me!

Even NZ had said adelaide had too much grass after one game that is after gallons of runs in matches before what is wrong with this gen of batmsan, 200 used to be a very good score mind it!

India won world cup defending 183 Viv richards or fans didnt whine about pitches ..its time the batsman man up!

FFS being NO1 team is a position of pride! Should be taking on anything thrown at them!

I never watched the Adelaide test so I cant comment on that but for these tests Im not saying its a bad pitch because people didnt score runs (even though I might have been implying that which I was wrong). The fact is you cant have a pitch where there is no need to have any pace bowlers. The same bowlers who have been destroying teams in any conditions now came here and couldnt buy a wicket. This pitch has made for spin bowling and to limit pace bowling which makes it a bad pitch. Its one thing to create a pitch slightly favouring a certain aspect but to completely remove every other part of the game makes it a bad pitch...

 

[Markkkkk]

What's nonsense about it? When none of your batsmen plays well, you can be bowled out for low totals every game. Apart from Vijay, none of the batsmen in this series have played well. None of the team has batted well and therefore you are seeing these scores.

I would watch Nagpur test over Perth one any day because it keeps you involved in the game all the time as a viewer. In Perth test, it got boring because evryone was coming out and scoring runs.

Once again, wasnt intending that low scores equal bad pitch but as I said above when you can go in a TEST match with 5 spinners you really have to look at the pitch...

 

[Aalay]

Depends on your definition of good pitch...These pitches were nowhere close to the pitches produced for previous SA tours to India but you can keep on denying that if it makes you feel better.

I have never denied it, infact I am saying that these pitches were produced to keep South Africa's pacers out of the game. Which is what it means when players say they want home advantage. However, neither Mohali nor Bangalore had surfaces which counts as a turner. They both were just regular Indian wickets and South Africa being the number 1 team in the world were thought to show some fight on it. They made a complete mess of it in both of that test matches and produced a low score. Again, I am not saying that India did any better but they were at least better than South Africa and that was good enough. Also had that Bangalore test gone ahead, you would have seen India posting a decent score because it was an absolute belter where South Africa could only post 214. You can complain about the pitch as much as you want but the truth is they simply did not play well.

The fact is you cant have a pitch where there is no need to have any pace bowlers. The same bowlers who have been destroying teams in any conditions now came here and couldnt buy a wicket. This pitch has made for spin bowling and to limit pace bowling which makes it a bad pitch. Its one thing to create a pitch slightly favouring a certain aspect but to completely remove every other part of the game makes it a bad pitch...

Again, you are just making it worse for yourself. So when we go abroad, they can have green tops where they can put 5 fast bowlers and no spinners and completely take our spinners from the game. When we do the same, it is a bad pitch?

 

[abhi_jacko]

The fact is you cant have a pitch where there is no need to have any pace bowlers.

Why not ?

If you can have wickets where spinners dont get any purchase and teams go with 4 pacers, then why cant you have a wicket where teams go with 4 spinners instead ? It almost sounds like spinners are considered second class bowlers

And just to add on, Morkel got 6 wickets in the first test. Philander got 3 wickets in the third test.

 

[Markkkkk]

Again, you are just making it worse for yourself. So when we go abroad, they can have green tops where they can put 5 fast bowlers and no spinners and completely take our spinners from the game. When we do the same, it is a bad pitch?

Why not ?

If you can have wickets where spinners dont get any purchase and teams go with 4 pacers, then why cant you have a wicket where teams go with 4 spinners instead ? It almost sounds like spinners are considered second class bowlers

And just to add on, Morkel got 6 wickets in the first test. Philander got 3 wickets in the third test.

Thats quite a lose arguement. Aslong as these green tops still offer to bat and spin (even a small amount) then its fine. It becomes a bad pitch where one of the three (spin,bat,pace) are removed completely. As far as I'm aware pitches have natural variations. So SA, Aus have more bounce where as NZ and England have seam and swing and the subcontinent have spin so wherever you go it is expected to be different to another location. However the difference is that in South Africa we can have Harmer picking up 5fers who is an average spinner aswell as Anderson taking 13 wickets in Pakistan but 76 wickets falling to spin and 13 falling to pace that is when it becomes a problem. I would be the first to say whether SA make a pitch that has nothing for spin or if England make a pitch slower then Ian Bell in Pakistan aswell as India making a pitch where you could 0 pacers and do just fine...

 

[Aalay]

Thats quite a lose arguement. Aslong as these green tops still offer to bat and spin (even a small amount) then its fine. It becomes a bad pitch where one of the three (spin,bat,pace) are removed completely. As far as I'm aware pitches have natural variations. So SA, Aus have more bounce where as NZ and England have seam and swing and the subcontinent have spin so wherever you go it is expected to be different to another location. However the difference is that in South Africa we can have Harmer picking up 5fers who is an average spinner aswell as Anderson taking 13 wickets in Pakistan but 76 wickets falling to spin and 13 falling to pace that is when it becomes a problem. I would be the first to say whether SA make a pitch that has nothing for spin or if England make a pitch slower then Ian Bell in Pakistan aswell as India making a pitch where you could 0 pacers and do just fine...

I think you are missing the point again. You can still bat on these pitches but you need to have a good technique to play spin well. Unfortunately neither South Africa nor India (surprisingly) have anyone right now who showed that and that is why it was a low scoring match. I also felt Morkel bowled really well in both the innings in Nagpur. It wasn't a dead track for seamers. In the first inning, Morkel got all his 3 wickets when he got some swing and when he put it in right areas. I am posting the video here so you can see it as well.

This is his first inning wickets.

This is his second inning wickets.

He also got some reverse swing going in the second inning and that is how he got his last 2 wickets. So if you have enough skills, you can bowl well and that is exactly what Morkel showed.

So from your definition of a good pitch, it did offer a small amount to both bat and pace but South Africa didn't use it as well as they would have liked.

 

[RUDI]

Looks like this is a debate for the ages! In this Test series India prepared pitches than suits their spin bowlers... can we all agree upon that at least ? India won the series, congratulations... the plan worked! Did the South African apply themselves, definitely not. Did South Africa find it hard to bat on these pitches, absolutely! So did India. Was the pitches ideal for test cricket... absolutely NOT! The mere fact that this topic is talked about so much in international cricket circles alone, makes it questionable! Can the result change? Can we take anything out of this? Definitely... in the spirit of the game.. hopefully not just India, but all Test playing countries... prepare pitches that's in the best interest of the game... ultimately may the best team win... not the pitch... Hopefully next time we will discuss the highlights of awesome cricket and not discuss the pitch!

 

[grkrama]

Was the pitches ideal for test cricket... absolutely NOT!

Ideal test wicket no, but certainly not bad by any means!

Also im not one who wants ideal wickets always, atleast a match or two in a long series like this i would want the home team to throw up their most favorable one, if its aus its the gabba bounce or perth minefield, eng a greentop with cloud overhead, SL a galle turner, india a mumbai dust bowl, barbados soft bounce with pace, and the visiting teams need to go through it to win thats what makes their victory sweet!

Thats quite a lose arguement. Aslong as these green tops still offer to bat and spin (even a small amount) then its fine. It becomes a bad pitch where one of the three (spin,bat,pace) are removed completely. As far as I'm aware pitches have natural variations. So SA, Aus have more bounce where as NZ and England have seam and swing and the subcontinent have spin so wherever you go it is expected to be different to another location. However the difference is that in South Africa we can have Harmer picking up 5fers who is an average spinner aswell as Anderson taking 13 wickets in Pakistan but 76 wickets falling to spin and 13 falling to pace that is when it becomes a problem. I would be the first to say whether SA make a pitch that has nothing for spin or if England make a pitch slower then Ian Bell in Pakistan aswell as India making a pitch where you could 0 pacers and do just fine...

It doesnt aid the fast bowlers in the typical sense, but there was a lot of reverse going and like @Aalay pointed out morkel bagged quite a few! If steyn had been there for all we know it could have been way different, It needs adaptation just like a spinner would be required on a seamer!

 

[stefan]

Here is a question. If given the option, which game would you pay to watch regardless of the team you support - The Nagpur test ? or the Perth Test ?

Personally for me, it would have to be Nagpur.

I rather watch the game that goes 5 days thank you very much. Matches ending in 3 days denies
me of 2 days of viewing.

You can keep denying the fact if it makes you feel better that none of your batsmen stepped up to show any type rigidity. They played rubbish shots, getting out on straight deliveries. Fact they are not good against spin.

Never denied we played badly in this series. That doesn't change the fact that the pitches were bad and didn't allow either side to play properly. India won because they had the better spinners nothing else.

 

[grkrama]

India won because they had the better spinners nothing else.

Lets break that down a bit IND won because

they had quality spinners who the SA batsman couldnt handle for their life

Plus the SA didnt have spinners who could trouble indian batsman enough to not let them outscore on a nagpur turner

Indian batsman outscored their SA counterparts by pretty decent margins over the series


All that sums up to SA are neither good at bowling or batting spin doesnt it ?

I love the Denial these fans have apart from nagpur no other pitch was a rank turner! Anybody saying otherwise is just a load of tosh!