South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[Aalay]

So what are you saying how Mooen bowled vs PAK suddenly disqualifies him as spin-bowling all-rounder?

That's exactly what I am saying. He failed on helpful surfaces where Pakistani spinners did very well. Yes Moeen Ali was very successful but that's not because he bowled amazingly well but because current Indian players are not as good players of spin as we had before. Also that series was the start of India's new approach of attacking the spinners and hitting them out of the game. India underestimated Moeen Ali and tried to hit him every time he came on to bowl. Ravi Shastri accepted this in the verdict that they underestimated them. Comparing Moeen Ali with Shakib-Al-Hasan is an absolute non-sense. Shakib is a proven performer over last few years. Moeen is just starting out and apart from that one series against India, he hasn't had any good series as a bowler. He is definitely under-rated in Enlglish cricket and I noticed this in Ashes. When everyone was talking about Root and Anderson but for me, it was Moeen Ali who performed consistently in tough phases. But to say he is as good as Shakib is just a bit too much. South Africa will expose his bowling even more.

 

[War]

That's exactly what I am saying. He failed on helpful surfaces where Pakistani spinners did very well. Yes Moeen Ali was very successful but that's not because he bowled amazingly well but because current Indian players are not as good players of spin as we had before. Also that series was the start of India's new approach of attacking the spinners and hitting them out of the game. India underestimated Moeen Ali and tried to hit him every time he came on to bowl. Ravi Shastri accepted this in the verdict that they underestimated them. Comparing Moeen Ali with Shakib-Al-Hasan is an absolute non-sense. Shakib is a proven performer over last few years. Moeen is just starting out and apart from that one series against India, he hasn't had any good series as a bowler. He is definitely under-rated in Enlglish cricket and I noticed this in Ashes. When everyone was talking about Root and Anderson but for me, it was Moeen Ali who performed consistently in tough phases. But to say he is as good as Shakib is just a bit too much. South Africa will expose his bowling even more.

I didn't compare him or say he is a good as Sakib at all, my post was implying he was closest thing to a good spin bowling all-rounder in test cricket after Sakib at the moment.

Yea IND batsmen under-rated him we all accept that, but he bowled well vs AUS & was up and down in other series. I at times have called for Rashid to start ahead of him in tests, so there is no issue here really.

 

[SaiSrini]

Well done India for a very good series win. We have done a good job in proving that these SAF players are pathetic at playing spin. Our batsmen definitely played better than their batsmen, who include the likes of Amla, De Villiers, Du Plessis, etc. Hope India go for the kill in the last test by preparing another pitch like this and crush the South Africans again.

A huge round of applause to the curators for preparing pitches that have proper home advantage and test the skills of the visiting team. Next time we go out to a country that prepares seaming pitches, we will play on it and if we lose, we won't complain. On the contrary, our media will first blame us for being inept against pace. But the moment western teams come to subcontinent and flounder on spinning tracks, our media is the first to jump onto the "bad pitches killing test cricket" bandwagon. Such double standards when it comes to spinning tracks!

 

[PokerAce]

India vs South Africa: Pitches are diluting the joy of success | The Indian Express

Oh my Harsha Bhogle with a strong one here India fans

I like listening to Harsha Bhogle and at times he makes a lot of sense, and I kind of agree that this series doesn't feel like a triumph over the best test side in the world.

However I don't blame the pitch for it, I blame the attitude SA took in the test. They just saw the surface and gave up. They were like no way we are winning here, and there was only one team that was going to win from there on. It was a foregone conclusion.

To give you an example India scored 215 on the first day at Nagpur and were bowled out by tea. Usually I would worry if India scored 215, but against the SA side out there, their body language was so defeatist that I didn't care. I knew 215 was enough. SA never gave it a real go, and basically had already lost the game even before the first ball of the test was bowled.

It was a no contest, and sometimes that can happen, but honestly it bordered very really on being a no effort too be SA. They did try on the final day, but by the it was too late.

 

[PokerAce]

^ Just to add to the point above, Amla even said something like they were trying to lose with dignity. I mean what kind of an attitude is that going into a test match. Okay fine the pitch was not exactly a batting paradise, but so what. Two sides were playing on it. India didn't exactly invent spin yesterday, that SA came totally unprepared. Did they not have spinners, could they not have been expected to exploit the conditions too, like the Indian spinners?

India were batting on the same pitch too, you know. Why couldn't SA say well this pitch is great for spin bowling lets go out there and bury these Indian batsman in this surface. But no, they instead were trying to lose with dignity. It shows SA didn't have confidence in their batting to outscore the Indians on this surface, nor in the bowling to outbowl Indian spinners.

They had already lost in their heads and were just going through the motion, trying to keep the defeat as small as possible. Its a terrible attitude to take into a test and naturally beating a side that has already lost, doesn't really feel like a triumph.

 

[stefan]

^ Just to add to the point above, Amla even said something like they were trying to lose with dignity. I mean what kind of an attitude is that going into a test match. Okay fine the pitch was not exactly a batting paradise, but so what. Two sides were playing on it. India didn't exactly invent spin yesterday, that SA came totally unprepared. Did they not have spinners, could they not have been expected to exploit the conditions too, like the Indian spinners?

India were batting on the same pitch too, you know. Why couldn't SA say well this pitch is great for spin bowling lets go out there and bury these Indian batsman in this surface. But no, they instead were trying to lose with dignity. It shows SA didn't have confidence in their batting to outscore the Indians on this surface, nor in the bowling to outbowl Indian spinners.

They had already lost in their heads and were just going through the motion, trying to keep the defeat as small as possible. Its a terrible attitude to take into a test and naturally beating a side that has already lost, doesn't really feel like a triumph.

That's not what he actually said. He said whether we lose or win we try to do it with dignity. The fact that he refused to comment on the pitch says it all...

 

[War]

Well done India for a very good series win. We have done a good job in proving that these SAF players are pathetic at playing spin. Our batsmen definitely played better than their batsmen, who include the likes of Amla, De Villiers, Du Plessis, etc. Hope India go for the kill in the last test by preparing another pitch like this and crush the South Africans again.

A huge round of applause to the curators for preparing pitches that have proper home advantage and test the skills of the visiting team. Next time we go out to a country that prepares seaming pitches, we will play on it and if we lose, we won't complain. On the contrary, our media will first blame us for being inept against pace. But the moment western teams come to subcontinent and flounder on spinning tracks, our media is the first to jump onto the "bad pitches killing test cricket" bandwagon. Such double standards when it comes to spinning tracks!

You are over-exaggerating. In the last 5 years or so the most difficult Sub continent tour facing spin was going to UAE vs Ajmal/Shah/Babar/Rehman/Hafeez. When AUS/ENG/SA lost series/tests their heavily struggling vs the spin no one complained, since overall pitch assisted spin the normal way and all the technical deficiency were exposed - no one complained.

Fact is despite how bad SA batted, IND the traditional great players of spin have been poor too on these wickets and haven't scored 250 either. Surely in future home series when they inevitably play 3 spinners, its not in their best interest either as they as all teams seek to show they can win home/away - to have pitches that turn so much that early.

 

[PokerAce]

That's not what he actually said. He said whether we lose or win we try to do it with dignity. The fact that he refused to comment on the pitch says it all...

Okay admit, I don't have the exact quote, and could be wrong, but I am fairly sure I heard something about trying to lose with as much dignity as possible or something to that effect. And of course he commented on the pitch, he said multiple times that these were the toughest conditions he had ever played it. He is clearly talking about the pitch.

 

[stefan]

Okay admit, I don't have the exact quote, and could be wrong, but I am fairly sure I heard something about trying to lose with as much dignity as possible or something to that effect. And of course he commented on the pitch, he said multiple times that these were the toughest conditions he had ever played it. He is clearly talking about the pitch.

He was twice asked to comment on the pitch but refused, saying as the losing team he can't say much. But this being Amla can clearly know what he means. If he thought the pitch was good he would have commented...

 

[themusketeer]

^ Nice assumption you made.
I really like the way everyone jumping on India winning the series. Blame Pitch ! You didn't score 250 either.

[HASHTAG]#Hatersmakeindiastronger [/HASHTAG]

 

[themusketeer]

I am also waiting for a comment when somebody says " Oh! SO Shashank Manohar doesn't like Big 3 policy, Must be some other money game".

 

[PokerAce]

He was twice asked to comment on the pitch but refused, saying as the losing team he can't say much. But this being Amla can clearly know what he means. If he thought the pitch was good he would have commented...

First of all its a weird assumption to make that if Amla thought the pitch was good he would comment on it. Does he comment every time on the pitch, I would think not? Further he has spoken very openly about the pitch and the surface multiple times. I dont know why you keep saying he hasn't.

Toughest conditions I have experienced in my Test career: Hashim Amla | The Indian Express

“Probably these are the toughest I have experienced in my Test career. The surface was probably the toughest I have had as well, and the cricket itself was really difficult. So credit to India, they kind of bowled well and unfortunately we ended up on the wrong side of this game,”

Secondly, I don't think anyone thinks the pitch was good or ideal. Of course it was heavily in favor of the spinners. The pitch being good was never been the point. The point is that the pitch was unplayable, and it was not. There were some runs to be had if you dug in as, but no one dug in for long. It was at any rate not a 79 all out pitch.

On a pitch that favors bowlers, spinners or seamers, the score are naturally going to be low, but even with low scores there are degrees, and even if SA had gotten 170 in the first innings which was par on the surface, SA would have been in the game.

The point has been that both sides played on the same pitch, and SA never believed they could win. It was clear for all to see.

 

[themusketeer]

Any idea what is the ticket cost and where I can get it.

 

[SaiSrini]

You are over-exaggerating. In the last 5 years or so the most difficult Sub continent tour facing spin was going to UAE vs Ajmal/Shah/Babar/Rehman/Hafeez. When AUS/ENG/SA lost series/tests their heavily struggling vs the spin no one complained, since overall pitch assisted spin the normal way and all the technical deficiency were exposed - no one complained.

Fact is despite how bad SA batted, IND the traditional great players of spin have been poor too on these wickets and haven't scored 250 either. Surely in future home series when they inevitably play 3 spinners, its not in their best interest either as they as all teams seek to show they can win home/away - to have pitches that turn so much that early.

If no one complained then (about the pitches), why is everyone complaining now? Its so obvious that people are riling up India for preparing turning pitches to make use of their "perfectly within the spirit" home advantage. Your comments seem to be in the Indian team's interests. But from the majority of the comments that has been happening on social media, internet and from the media, it seems pitches like this should never be prepared for the so-called interest of test cricket. That according to me is BS. As you said, Ashwin/Jadeja/Mishra are not in that league of Ajmal/Shah/Babar/Rehman/Hafeez. But still SAF were flattened and bended by spin. That tells me, they are not a proper No.1 and they have a major weakness that can be exposed pretty easily. And the manner of their defeat here tells the world that they can be upstaged easily if teams put proper planning/effort and execution.

 

[Markkkkk]

Tests still shouldnt end in 3 days. Elgar/Harmer arent world class spinners but we bowled you out for 200s nearly every game...