Stuart Broad - is he worth his place in the Test XI?

[calebelfc]

Broad is almost 25 so undoubtedly has the best years ahead of him.

If England were losing games and Broad's performances remained consistently as they are now, then you'd drop him. But England are winning which means he'll get an extended run in the side despite form, just as Pietersen did for over a year when he wasn't firing but England were.

He's playing in these ODI's and T20's vs Sri Lanka and perhaps the added responsibility of captaincy, (a good move I think), will reignite some form come India.

The reality is, he will come good and we fans will be proven as fickle as ever.

 

[Owzat]

Ah the age (old) argument, had to come out sooner or later If he were improving that might be admissable, problem is he isn't. It might also be backed up IF it weren't for the fact he averages 25.68 and 21.57 with the ball in ODIs and T20s respectively, 'age' doesn't seem to be a problem there

England can't afford to carry a bowler in a quartet, and they don't have an all-rounder so the chances of him being a passenger in a five man attack are slim - unless he himself suddenly starts scoring a la Prior and England make that suicidal move

Stuart Broad (Test bowling - progressive)

Innings 01-22 : 35 wkts @ 38.69 (SR 72.91, ER 3.18)
Innings 23-44 : 42 wkts @ 32.64 (SR 61.07, ER 3.21)
Innings 45-66 : 30 wkts @ 38.47 (SR 76.33, ER 3.02)

Probably better off sticking with the defences of 'creating wickets at the other end' and injuries/bad luck. Considering that is 22 innings bowled per spell and two out of three he's taken much nearer 1.5 wickets per innings than 2.0, he's not done that much.

Invariably he's bound to have had some good series, but if you look at his record by series it paints the same picture

Stuart Broad (Test bowling - by series)

vs SRI (07/08) : 1 wkt @ 95.00 (SR 216.00, ER 2.64)
vs NZE (07/08) : 8 wkts @ 31.25 (SR 63.00, ER 2.98)
vs NZE (2008) : 7 wkts @ 43.57 (SR 78.86, ER 3.32)
vs SAF (2008) : 8 wkts @ 49.00 (SR 82.00, ER 3.59)
vs IND (08/09) : 2 wkts @ 67.00 (SR 120.00, ER 3.35)
vs WIN (08/09) : 12 wkts @ 30.58 (SR 65.50, ER 2.80)
vs WIN (2009) : 8 wkts @ 25.38 (SR 38.50, ER 3.95)
vs AUS (2009) : 18 wkts @ 30.22 (SR 51.39, ER 3.53)
vs SAF (09/10) : 13 wkts @ 33.46 (SR 71.54, ER 2.81)
vs BAN (09/10) : 6 wkts @ 46.00 (SR 79.00, ER 3.49)
vs PAK (2010) : 14 wkts @ 23.36 (SR 48.79, ER 2.87)
vs AUS (10/11) : 2 wkts @ 80.50 (SR 209.50, ER 2.31)
vs SRI (2011) : 8 wkts @ 48.75 (SR 89.25, ER 3.258)

Only in six series has he averaged under 34 with the ball - four out of those six series against Pakistan, New Zealand and West Indies who were no great shakes as batting sides go. Against the aussies in 2009 it was two 5wis that dragged his average down, in six of his eight bowls that series he was typically mediocre (or worse) In six of his 13 series he's conceded at less than 3.00 rpo, so I guess at least he's creating wickets at the other end

"undoubtedly has the best years ahead of him" - given what's gone before him I find it hard to believe those were his best years so I guess in a sense you're right!

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Ah the age (old) argument, had to come out sooner or later If he were improving that might be admissable, problem is he isn't. It might also be backed up IF it weren't for the fact he averages 25.68 and 21.57 with the ball in ODIs and T20s respectively, 'age' doesn't seem to be a problem there

Aren't you just cutting your own argument here? His ODI and T20 stats clearly show he has the raw skills for International cricket, and that where he is lacking in is probably just consistency or understanding how to bowl to a plan in Test cricket. Which is what everyone here seems to be arguing.

 

[Fenil]

As far as test side is concerned, Stuart Broad definitely deserves a place but can't say the same about him as far a place in ODI side is concerned.

 

[shravi]

As far as test side is concerned, Stuart Broad definitely deserves a place but can't say the same about him as far a place in ODI side is concerned.

Excuse me? Have you ever actually seen Broad play?

Broad isn't going to strike fear in the hearts of batsmen or bamboozle them the same way Steyn does but he has a very useful knack of picking up wickets. He is a very average test bowler but he is one of the better one day bowlers going around, with a strike rate of 29.7.

 

[Fenil]

Excuse me? Have you ever actually seen Broad play?

Broad isn't going to strike fear in the hearts of batsmen or bamboozle them the same way Steyn does but he has a very useful knack of picking up wickets. He is a very average test bowler but he is one of the better one day bowlers going around, with a strike rate of 29.7.

I agree, my friend but the strike bowlers could be Tremlett and Anderson. Broad can one change bowler. He gets good bounce and add batting to the line-up.

Also, I don't think the bowlers like Shehzad and others are good enough to be in the test team. They are very good in ODIs but I think they need some experience and then they can be in the test side.

Finn could be an option in place of Broad in test team though.

 

[Owzat]

Over a month on I am surprised this hasn't been bumped by someone trying to make out like what was said wasn't true/fair.

Fair play to Broad, took him over 30 Tests to work it out, or be told, but he's finally worked out that you take wickets by pitching the ball up and has transformed his bowling. Let's just hope he keeps it up, although his averages of 14 & 40 with bat and ball outside England will need much improving.

I'm as annoyed with his captain and all those involved with him and getting him in the England set-up for not guiding his bowling. I mean what idiots sit back and let him bowl as he sees fit waiting for him to work out it doesn't work? Maybe it took huge public criticism and calls for him to be dropped to make him think his bowling was crap..................... Doesn't help all those berks who reckoned his "enforcement" style created wickets, he's conceded a mere 140 runs this series and taken 13 wickets so he can be tight and take wickets.........................

Broad (10/11 & 2011)

vs India : 13 wkts @ 10.77 (SR 30.77, ER 2.10)
vs Sri Lanka : 8 wkts @ 48.75 (SR 89.25, ER 3.28)
vs Australia : 2 wkts @ 80.50 (SR 209.50, ER 2.31)

nuff said. He did bowl ok vs Pakistan but then who didn't. In Bangladesh he took 6 wkts @ 46.00 (SR 79.00, ER 3.49), if you can't work out from playing against the weaker sides that pitching the ball up = wickets then you shouldn't be playing Test cricket.

He's a lucky boy that a) he can bat and b) the selectors are as stupid as he is (the stupidity was picking a bowler who was not taking wickets in a four man attack)

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And in answer to my own question, Broad is currently worth a place in the Test IX but only as long as he pitches the ball up, maintains good to acceptable form and doesn't revert to his old bad habits

 

[ZoraxDoom]

And in answer to my own question, Broad is currently worth a place in the Test IX but only as long as he pitches the ball up, maintains good to acceptable form and doesn't revert to his old bad habits

Now now, that's like saying Sachin Tendulkar is worth in a place in the Indian side only as long as he scores runs, stays fit, and doesn't get arrested.

Just admit you were wrong


I do find it baffling though that it took so damn long for Broad to start pitching the ball up. He must have been instructed to pitch it short, you can go that many games without thinking to yourself 'Hey, I wonder what'll happen if I just bowl a bit fuller.'

 

[Collingwood50]

Coh.....can't hindsight make people look awkward

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Indeed. Let's put this rubbish about Stuart Broad to bed now, eh?

Of course, that won't stop people moaning when he has another 'bad patch' - as all players do.

Now now, that's like saying Sachin Tendulkar is worth in a place in the Indian side only as long as he scores runs, stays fit, and doesn't get arrested.

 

[barmyarmy]

Just like everyone was saying about Cook before the Ashes.
Now Andrew Strauss on the other hand - is he worth his place?

 

[shravi]

Just like everyone was saying about Cook before the Ashes.
Now Andrew Strauss on the other hand - is he worth his place?

Please ask this question after the India series is over. I have suffered enough.

 

[sifter132]

Haha - indeed.

Same for Mike Hussey on the Aussie side last Ashes. He was on deathrow before Brisbane and had a great summer. Who'll be next? Ponting hopefully

 

[Fenil]

Judging by the current form, England will be more than happy to have Stuart Broad in their team even as an allrounder let alone as a bowler.

 

[puddleduck]

Are people aware that if a team scores on average 300-350 runs and you play four bowlers that roughly equates to two sets of 3-80 and two 2-80. Now obviously that's not how cricket works, but not every bowler can take every wicket every game they play. I would love someone to go back and count how many catches are dropped off Broad over the last two years, because it always seems to be off his bowling. Just something to think about. Yes he's bowling better now that he's pitching it up, but I'm pretty sure his job was to bang it in so batsmen would attempt to drive the likes of Jimmy and Swanny. Funnily enough, it's worked really well over the last few years...

*puts on old man hat and yorkshire accent* By gum tis tip top we don't still have the knee-jerk selection policies that were so wonderfully holding back English cricket when I were a lad *takes hat off, punches wife and waits for everyone to forget*