Tendulkar v Inzamam TEST CRICKET ONLY

[Insomniac]

Wickets:

3.2 Anderson to Pathan, OUT: Gone! fulltoss outside off but the new
ball shapes in a bit and Irfan goes for a cover drive, ends up
playing away from his body and gets a inside edge which crashes
onto his off stump

10.3 Hoggard to Kumble, OUT: Got his man this time! fuller and it
pitched just outside off and Kumble pushes back and is beaten by
the nip-backer and it crashes into his pads in front of leg stump
and Taufel sends him on his way. First blood for England.

I doubt Kumble would survive long against new ball bowling, although he does now have a 100

18.2 Flintoff to Jaffer, OUT: Gone!fuller on a length, pitched just
outside off and it came back in sharply and Jaffer plunges forward
but is beaten by the movement and is rapped in front of the
middle. OUT!

Beaten by movement, nothing wrong with the pitch there

33.3 Flintoff to Dravid, OUT: England strike immediately post lunch! On
a length, outside off stump and it came in a bit, Dravid pushes at
it, away from his body, and nicks it to Geraint Jones

India 75/4, Partnership of 42
R Dravid c Jones b Flintoff 9 (60b 1x4 0x6)
SR Tendulkar 34* (54b 5x4) A Flintoff 7.3-3-11-2 (3nb)

Dravid didn't need to play at that ball if I remember correctly. No need to play, his problem, not the pitch's

Now in England, Inzamam was faced with a similar situation IIRC

However, Inzamam batted out the rest of the day in fine fashion.

Here's Sachin:


34.3 Udal to Tendulkar, OUT: Gone! SRT is out! tossed on the off and
middle stump line, turning in, and Tendular pushes forward, and
tries to turn it to on side, the ball spins bit more than he
thought, takes the edge, onto his pads and then pops to tt of
short leg

India 76/5, Partnership of 1
SR Tendulkar c Bell b Udal 34 (57b 5x4 0x6)
Yuvraj Singh 0* (3b) SD Udal 2.3-0-6-1


Tendulkar chokes again. All the wickets that fell initially had nothing to do with the pitch King Pietersen

zMario added 0 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

Having watched the game, I dispute how comfortably Joshi managed to score runs, ignoring the six, of course, which could have easily resulted in a wicket as any six attempt can. 'Inzamam would have taken Pakistan to victory' - Ha! Inzamam may be good in successful chases but you cannot guarantee that he'd win every single close situation definately - you are stepping a tad over the line with the Inzi love, here.

The fact that he could put on 57 runs for a last wicket partnership and take his team home by 1 wicket is more than anything Sachin's achieved pressure wise.

zMario added 4 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

Dean Jones when Tendulkar got dismissed:

And bang Tendulkar's gone... That could be the moment where India... just there... maybe lost this test match.

zMario added 4 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

Also manee, regarding Joshi, if he had managed to survive 20 balls, don't you think he could survive maybe 5 or 10 more?

He choked, thats the end of it.

 

[metallics2006]

Can you tell me one time-Just one time- when Inzy has made a score of about 143 or clse to it against the ausies(or any other team) in a deciding match to make his team qualify for the finals? Sachin did this in the 1998 Sharjah Tournament and if you have seen him bat in that match you would not have many doubts about his match winning ability or his pressure absorbing abilities. He went on to hit another hundred in the final to make India win that final. Has Inzy ever done something like this?

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRkHervQJc

See for yourself guys.

 

[Insomniac]

ODI cricket is not part of this debate so that completely throws your post out

 

[aditya123]

Zmario on the one hand fails to accept Tendulkar as the better batsman looking at his stats but then again makes use of stupid stats like MoM awards to make his point.
Tendulkar has played a part in most of India`s great test match wins overseas recently (2002 onwards).I do not remember Inzamam doing that.
Nottingham 2007,Perth 2007,Trinidad 2002,Headingley 2002,Multan 2004 etc and a major role in drawing test matches overseas like Nottingham 2002,Ade;aide 2007 etc.

Let us now wind back to the 90s, a period when both the batsmen in question were t the peak of their prowess.
India were a very weak touring side back then.Those were the days when we did not have a great batting lineup with Ganguly,Laxman and Dravid to support Sachin.
Nor was the bowling lineup that threatening to win or set up games for India overseas with the exception of Srinath or occasionally Prasad.

Pakistan of the 90s on the other hand were a far superior side with a gun pace attack of the 2 `W`s,Mushtaq Ahmed,Saqlain and Aaquib Jaaved with a very decent batting lineup consisting of Anwar,Sohail,Ijaz etc.
Inzy was well supported by a good pace attack and a decent batting lineup during his peak.

Tendulkar,on the other hand had to do it all by himself.Due to lack of support from his other batting colleagues and lack of bowling firepower, most of his great overseas knocks ended up on the losing side due to no fault of his.
Arguably his greatest knocks like the ones at Perth and SCG in 1992,Capetown in 1997,MCG in 1999,West Indies in 1997,Blomfontein in 2001(the pre-Ganguly era) and many more ended up on the losing side due to the above mentioned reason.
The fact that India was a one man army till the early 2000s shows why your argument of him not scoring under pressure does not hold true.He was under pressure everytime he stepped on the pitch for a major part of his career and that is not an exaggeration.
Ask opposing captains,rival fans or the Indian supporters who have seen Indian the cricket in the 90s and early 2000s (pre-ganguly era) and you`ll know the sentiment that was echoed during those days. The `Tendulkar goes,India goes` syndrome which was prevalent in both tests and ODIs back then.Indian sides crumbled the moment Tendulkar got out and never really recovered from the setback.
I used to be frustrated by that fact in the 90s and Iam not exaggerating this at all.

aditya123 added 1 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

ODI cricket is not part of this debate so that completely throws your post out

But pressure is pressure, be it ODIs or Tests.
Winning an ODI under pressure is also a sign of pressure absorbing ability of a player.

 

[lightbulb]

Zmario on the one hand fails to accept Tendulkar as the better batsman looking at his stats but then again makes use of stupid stats like MoM awards to make his point.
Tendulkar has played a part in most of India`s great test match wins overseas recently (2002 onwards).I do not remember Inzamam doing that.
Nottingham 2007,Perth 2007,Trinidad 2002,Headingley 2002,Multan 2004 etc and a major role in drawing test matches overseas like Nottingham 2002,Ade;aide 2007 etc.

Let us now wind back to the 90s, a period when both the batsmen in question were t the peak of their prowess.
India were a very weak touring side back then.Those were the days when we did not have a great batting lineup with Ganguly,Laxman and Dravid to support Sachin.
Nor was the bowling lineup that threatening to win or set up games for India overseas with the exception of Srinath or occasionally Prasad.

Pakistan of the 90s on the other hand were a far superior side with a gun pace attack of the 2 `W`s,Mushtaq Ahmed,Saqlain and Aaquib Jaaved with a very decent batting lineup consisting of Anwar,Sohail,Ijaz etc.
Inzy was well supported by a good pace attack and a decent batting lineup during his peak.

Tendulkar,on the other hand had to do it all by himself.Due to lack of support from his other batting colleagues and lack of bowling firepower, most of his great overseas knocks ended up on the losing side due to no fault of his.
Arguably his greatest knocks like the ones at Perth and SCG in 1992,Capetown in 1997,MCG in 1999,West Indies in 1997,Blomfontein in 2001(the pre-Ganguly era) and many more ended up on the losing side due to the above mentioned reason.
The fact that India was a one man army till the early 2000s shows why your argument of him not scoring under pressure does not hold true.He was under pressure everytime he stepped on the pitch for a major part of his career and that is not an exaggeration.
Ask opposing captains,rival fans or the Indian supporters who have seen Indian the cricket in the 90s and early 2000s (pre-ganguly era) and you`ll know the sentiment that was echoed during those days. The `Tendulkar goes,India goes` syndrome which was prevalent in both tests and ODIs back then.Indian sides crumbled the moment Tendulkar got out and never really recovered from the setback.
I used to be frustrated by that fact in the 90s and Iam not exaggerating this at all.

aditya123 added 1 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...



But pressure is pressure, be it ODIs or Tests.
Winning an ODI under pressure is also a sign of pressure absorbing ability of a player.

Exactly my point, and the rest of it is true.

 

[metallics2006]

ODI cricket is not part of this debate so that completely throws your post out

No not completely. People who want to enjoy a really great ODI innings can use that youtube link.

 

[aditya123]

Exactly my point, and the rest of it is true.

Are you an Indian or an Englishman ?

 

[metallics2006]

Why does it matter ? The point is he understands who is the better player of the two.

 

[aditya123]

Why does it matter ? The point is he understands who is the better player of the two.

I just helps if the point comes from a neutral.

 

[metallics2006]

Alright then his location has been typed out as Surrey, England and I know for a fact that it is not in India or Pakistan.

 

[Insomniac]

Zmario on the one hand fails to accept Tendulkar as the better batsman looking at his stats but then again makes use of stupid stats like MoM awards to make his point.
Tendulkar has played a part in most of India`s great test match wins overseas recently (2002 onwards).I do not remember Inzamam doing that.
Nottingham 2007,Perth 2007,Trinidad 2002,Headingley 2002,Multan 2004 etc and a major role in drawing test matches overseas like Nottingham 2002,Ade;aide 2007 etc.

Wow, you can name them all. Thats seriously sad. Does Sachin Tendulkar compare as much as a match-winner as Inzamam-ul-Haq? Honestly

Let us now wind back to the 90s, a period when both the batsmen in question were t the peak of their prowess.
India were a very weak touring side back then.Those were the days when we did not have a great batting lineup with Ganguly,Laxman and Dravid to support Sachin.
Nor was the bowling lineup that threatening to win or set up games for India overseas with the exception of Srinath or occasionally Prasad.

What happened to Kumble? Pakistan wern't that good, but reverse swing did help. Besides, you guys are seriously hypocrites. On one hand you say the reason Tendulkar's average isn't high in matches won for India because Dravid, Ganguly, and Laxman get the runs. On the other hand we have you saying the batting lineup isn't good.

WHAT BULL EXCUSES AHAHAHHAHAA

Pakistan of the 90s on the other hand were a far superior side with a gun pace attack of the 2 `W`s,Mushtaq Ahmed,Saqlain and Aaquib Jaaved with a very decent batting lineup consisting of Anwar,Sohail,Ijaz etc.
Inzy was well supported by a good pace attack and a decent batting lineup during his peak.

They never played in the same match together. Also, Ijaz Ahmed and Aamir Sohail are not legends for their batting. They average less than 40. Saeed Anwar is very underrated I feel, but thats probably due to our opening problems more than anything

Tendulkar,on the other hand had to do it all by himself.Due to lack of support from his other batting colleagues and lack of bowling firepower, most of his great overseas knocks ended up on the losing side due to no fault of his.
Arguably his greatest knocks like the ones at Perth and SCG in 1992,Capetown in 1997,MCG in 1999,West Indies in 1997,Blomfontein in 2001(the pre-Ganguly era) and many more ended up on the losing side due to the above mentioned reason.

According to manee, Rahul Dravid, Sourav Ganguly, and VVS Laxman scored too many runs so Tendulkar's average in games won by India is not high. Once again, conflicting reports. You guys are now clutching at straws



The fact that India was a one man army till the early 2000s shows why your argument of him not scoring under pressure does not hold true.He was under pressure everytime he stepped on the pitch for a major part of his career and that is not an exaggeration.

According to manee, once again, Indian batsmen all contribute to the total, so thats why Tendulkar's average is not as good as Inzamam.

What pressure? He cannot handle pressure, and thats a FACT.

Ask opposing captains,rival fans or the Indian supporters who have seen Indian the cricket in the 90s and early 2000s (pre-ganguly era) and you`ll know the sentiment that was echoed during those days. The `Tendulkar goes,India goes` syndrome which was prevalent in both tests and ODIs back then.Indian sides crumbled the moment Tendulkar got out and never really recovered from the setback.

What happened to Dravid and Laxman now?!

I used to be frustrated by that fact in the 90s and Iam not exaggerating this at all.

Sure

aditya123 added 1 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...



But pressure is pressure, be it ODIs or Tests.
Winning an ODI under pressure is also a sign of pressure absorbing ability of a player.

And guess what? Inzamam has more pressure innings in ODIs than Tendulkar. However, we are limiting ourself to test match cricket

Replies in bold to a very conflicting post with what manee tries to say.

 

[King Pietersen]

Come on then, lets see these examples of Inzamam scoring in pressure innings in ODi's....

Tendulkar is far, far, far, far better in ODi's than Inzamam, you honestly do not want to get anyone started on Tendulkar's ODi career. It massively surpasses that of Inzamam, the sheer amount of hundreds compared with Inzamam proves this. I'm interested to see all these under pressure performances from Inzamam though. So lets change the rules, and allow the discussion of ODi's, the Test Match discussions have almost reached the end of the road now anyway.

 

[Pakistani Army]

Alright I have to say, Mario has just owned some of you Tendulkar fans. He has shown that Tendulkar is a good batsman, but is very prone to choking. As I said earlier, I thought Tendulkar was better than Inzamam, but now my opinion has changed. zMario has shown that in a pressure situation, you want Inzamam-ul-Haq in your team and at the crease. The reason why I'm backing zMario is that the Tendulkar supporters are having conflicting opinions in which they themselves cannot agree as to why Tendulkar's average in wins is so low.

Inzamam-ul-Haq averages 93.00 in test match cricket from 2001 to 2005 in Pakistan wins. You cannot, I repeat, cannot go against that. Tendulkar has ONLY two man of the match awards in his test career that have contributed to Indian wins. He also has not got a man of the match award in an Indian win since 1998 - 10 years. What a "legend" of Indian cricket. I respect Tendulkar for what he has accomplished in cricket, but I respect Inzamam more for the pressure-innings he has played in his career, and that is why Inzamam-ul-Haq is a better player than Sachin Tendulkar.

 

[khalek]

Wow Mario you alone have burned/owned/grilled/sizzled the crap out of these Tendy fans...

khalek added 2 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

No matter what you guys say Inzi rocks, Tendy can't hit the half size of any of Inzi's sixers in international cricket

 

[Insomniac]

Come on then, lets see these examples of Inzamam scoring in pressure innings in ODi's....

Tendulkar is far, far, far, far better in ODi's than Inzamam, you honestly do not want to get anyone started on Tendulkar's ODi career. It massively surpasses that of Inzamam, the sheer amount of hundreds compared with Inzamam proves this. I'm interested to see all these under pressure performances from Inzamam though. So lets change the rules, and allow the discussion of ODi's, the Test Match discussions have almost reached the end of the road now anyway.

Here's an incident.

Pakistan v India, 4th ODI in 6 match series in 2005. India lead 2-1.

The start is delayed due to wet outfield, reduced to 48 overs a side.

India bat first, and get 315-6

Sachin Tendulkar scores 123 off 130 balls with 12 4s and 2 6s

Next highest scorer was Dhoni with 47

Pakistani openers set off well in pursuit of 316 in 48 overs with Afridi getting 40 off 23, and Butt got 48

Inzamam-ul-Haq walked in, with 133 runs required off 19.5 overs. The score: 183/3

Shoaib Malik at the other end is pushing for singles, and goes for 65 trying to hit a six.

Pakistan 253/4, 38.2 overs

Now after this point, its disaster for Pakistan, with Mohammad Yousuf hooking to fine leg, and Younus Khan getting run out by Nehra. A few balls later, Kamran was going for a suicidal single to give Inzamam the strike, and was run out by again, Nehra

Pakistan 295/7, required 21 off 4 overs. Only 3 wickets in hand. Mohammad Sami at the other end with Danish and Rana Naveed to come

Pakistan 301/7, require 15 off 3 overs.

Zaheer Khan is coming in, Inzamam gets 2 runs, then a single, giving Sami strike for 3 balls of the over. Zaheer bowls a beamer, no ball (pressure I guess),

The rest of the over give Pakistan no runs, till Sami edges the ball to third man and retains strike.

Pakistan require 10 runs with 2 overs, and only 3 wickets. Sami on strike

Pakistan get 7 runs from the over thanks to bad fielding by Sachin Tendulkar in the deep

Now, last over, 3 runs to get, 6 balls. Tendulkar to bowl.

Tendulkar bowls 2 dot balls.

Inzamam hits Tendulkar to wide-mid-off for 2 runs

3 balls, 1 run required

The next 2 balls are good tight balls, no run for Inzamam

Last ball, 1 run required, Inzamam on strike.

Tendulkar brings his fielders in, Sachin bowling around the wicket bowls a good ball, but slightly wide, Inzamam caresses it through the gap on the offside for 4 runs.

Pakistan win the game by 3 wickets with no balls to spare.

The man of the match? Well Sachin made 124, but thanks to Inzamam's COMPOSURE in his PRESSURE COOKER situation, the commentators of the match gave the man of the match to none other than...

Inzamam-ul-Haq. Could Sachin Tendulkar ever do that in Inzamam's situation? Never.