The state of off-spin bowling/suspect actions/doosra bowlers worldwide

[abhi_jacko]

wait so it wasnt kubrick

no, it was the BCCI

 

[Aalay]

Dabholkar, Jaiswal reported for suspect action | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Markkkkk]

Leave Narine alone! I flipping told people he will be the no1 spin bowler and he cant do that if he isnt allowed to bowl...

 

[War]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1527399427583715

this video was brought to my attention just now and while i don't think Ashwin's action has been like this during ongoing S Africa series, to my eyes this indeed shows a bit of jerk in his action

 

[PokerAce]

^ Yeah was from a phase where Ashwin was trying all kinds of action and experimenting too much. In fact Ashwin was just experimenting too much. It was like he had a new action every second game, and was trying to be Narine.

All the experts were calling for him to stop, and the constant chopping and changing was affecting his performances.

The problem with Ravichandra Ashwin’s changing action - The Economic Times

Ashwin having a ballAshwin having a ball

Not too long back, though, the off-spinner looked a little lost — his constant experimentation with his action was joked about, his bowling had lost much of its bite

This is one of those actions from that phase, and definitely looks worth taking a closer look at. Even so if all the evidence is that ONE ball, then that itself shows how desperately people (you know who), are clutching at straws to ban Ashwin. We all know this has been going on ever since Ajmal was banned.

However all this is a moot now, as since then (the time of this video) he has settled on a much simpler action which is quite clean, and nothing like the action in the video posted. So if people use old videos of him to say he should be tested now, what is to be done about it. The whole point of the crack down is to have bowlers clean up their action. If Ashwin has already taken up a simpler cleaner action, whats the fuss about?

 

[Aalay]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1527399427583715

this video was brought to my attention just now and while i don't think Ashwin's action has been like this during ongoing S Africa series, to my eyes this indeed shows a bit of jerk in his action

I think we had a chat about this on this thread when Ashwin for the first time in his career came out with a full-sleeve shirt and also for the first time, tried to copy Narine's action. He only however bowled with that Narine action in that game against Bangladesh. He came back to his regular action after that game. Then again, he brough that Nairne action when we were playing against WI in a home series later that year. Again, he only bowled with that action for 1 over. After that he was back to his original action.

This was the time when likes of Ajmal, Hafeez, Senanayake were bowling above 15 degree limit without any warning from ICC and Ashwin felt it was unfair to the bowlers who were actually bowling it with that 15 degree restrictions. He also gave an interview about it.

R Ashwin: 'If someone gets a 15-degree advantage, why should I lag behind?' | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

However, he was criticized a lot after he tried to do that Narine action so since then he has returned to his original action which is completely fine and does not involve any jerk.

 

[War]

Ye fellas @Aalay @PokerAce as i mentioned in post it looks old and he wasn't bowling like that in SA series. However I guess people could argue why he wasn't called when bowling with that actions because the crackdown started on June 6th last year, which was before the Windies series. Not sure when IND had played BANG.

 

[PokerAce]

Ye fellas @Aalay @PokerAce as i mentioned in post it looks old and he wasn't bowling like that in SA series. However I guess people could argue why he wasn't called when bowling with that actions because the crackdown started on June 6th last year, which was before the Windies series. Not sure when IND had played BANG.

Well to be honest, the action in the vid is worth taking a look at. However that is not to say it is definitely over the line. There is nothing to say Ashwin definitely crossed the rule there and therefore must have been taken a look at. The Umpire's saw it and felt okay that's an interesting action, but still not over the line and thus let it go.

 

[PokerAce]

Shikhar Dhawan reported for suspect bowling action - Cricbuzz

 

[War]

Well to be honest, the action in the vid is worth taking a look at. However that is not to say it is definitely over the line. There is nothing to say Ashwin definitely crossed the rule there and therefore must have been taken a look at. The Umpire's saw it and felt okay that's an interesting action, but still not over the line and thus let it go.

It looks very much like Narine, so i think its fair question to ask why the umpires at the time didn't see fault in it to report him. Thus its a small hint of inconsistency IMO.

 

[PokerAce]

@War .... no inconsistencies at all ... back when you say Ashwin's action looked like Nairn e's ... even Narine was not reported or banned during that period ... Narine has only been banned now.

Since then Ashwin got a much cleaner action ... While Narine stuck to his ... so now when there is closer scrutiny Narine is in trouble but Ashwin thanks to the work on his action since then is free.

 

[War]

@War .... no inconsistencies at all ... back when you say Ashwin's action looked like Nairn e's ... even Narine was not reported or banned during that period ... Narine has only been banned now.

Since then Ashwin got a much cleaner action ... While Narine stuck to his ... so now when there is closer scrutiny Narine is in trouble but Ashwin thanks to the work on his action since then is free.

Actually he was, Narine got called the 1st time during the now disbanded C-League 2014, which occurred just before the Windies tour to India - which Ashwin is shown bowling with that action in video.

 

[PokerAce]

Actually he was, Narine got called the 1st time during the now disbanded C-League 2014, which occurred just before the Windies tour to India - which Ashwin is shown bowling with that action in video.

Yeah like I said there is no discrepancy as you have the timeline wrong.

Narine may have been banned in 2014 for CLT20 (September), but the Ashwin match in question is from earlier in the year February, before the crackdown began. Here is the match in question -

2nd Match: Bangladesh v India at Fatullah, Feb 26, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Ban 49/2 in 12.1 overs, second wicket falling to Ashwin stumped by Karthik.

ICC's crackdown began in June that year. ICC continues crackdown on illegal bowling action, Zimbabwe’s Prosper Utseya latest to be reported | The Indian Express

The governing body allows a 15-degree limit for all bowlers to flex their elbows but the ICC cricket committee, at its meeting in Bangalore during the first week of June, noted that there were a number of current bowlers bending that rule.

While the ICC has not given any new directive to match officials to be more vigilant about chucking, the renewed vigour in identifying bowlers with illegal actions has been evident.

“It is something they are expected to do as part of their job,” Geoff Allardice, ICC general manager for cricket, told Reuters recently.

“Although the concern about suspect actions expressed after the recent ICC cricket committee and chief executives meetings may have given the umpires greater confidence to report.”

Just after the June meeting, Sri Lanka’s Sachithra Senanayake and New Zealand’s Kane Williamson were reported and then later banned from bowling by the ICC after the off-spinners were found to have illegal actions.

Then in September Ajmal and Narine were banned.

So its very clear that the video in question is from a period before the crackdown started. Ashwin since then went with a cleaner action and hence in the crackdown period has been left untouched. Narine continued with it and the rest we know.

Secondly anyone who argues that on the evidence of those two deliveries, from different games, the second of which (vs WI) could be months after or before the first Bangladesh vid, Ashwin should be banned clearly doesn't understand the process.

It takes more than one delivery to get banned. You have to be a repeat offender. Like for instance when Narine was banned in the CLT20 Sunil Narine banned from bowling in CLT20 final | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo-

ESPNcricinfo understands that this time the umpires, Rod Tucker, S Ravi and Vineet Kulkarni, had noted in their written complaint that several of the 24 deliveries Narine bowled against Hurricanes were suspect. "It was three deliveries in the last match. But this time all his four overs were reported," an official privy to the complaint said.

Narine wasn't banned because one ball looked suspicious, it was because in one game, he appeared to be regularly crossing the line with several deliveries, and infact four of his overs were reported. You want to compare to a guy who seems odd on one delivery in 7 years.

So even if Ashwin did come close to the line with ONE delivery, but was okay the rest of the game, it would not constitute any rational for a ban. The Narine ruling clearly explains that multiple offences are taking into account.

Also can people start taking sense here, Ashwin has been playing for 7 years now, he started in IPL 1. So if in 7 years of cricket and with all the videos available everyone, some Einstein has found 2 deliveries, TWO, where Ashwin is unconventional, TWO deliveries in 7 years mind you ... then how does even fall in the same category as offenders like Narine who are deemed to be repeatedly crossing the limits in the same game.

How can those two cases be treated at par to begin with is beyond me.

 

[War]

Yeah like I said there is no discrepancy as you have the timeline wrong.

Narine may have been banned in 2014 for CLT20 (September), but the Ashwin match in question is from earlier in the year February, before the crackdown began. Here is the match in question -

2nd Match: Bangladesh v India at Fatullah, Feb 26, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Ban 49/2 in 12.1 overs, second wicket falling to Ashwin stumped by Karthik.

ICC's crackdown began in June that year. ICC continues crackdown on illegal bowling action, Zimbabwe’s Prosper Utseya latest to be reported | The Indian Express



Then in September Ajmal and Narine were banned.

So its very clear that the video in question is from a period before the crackdown started. Ashwin since then went with a cleaner action and hence in the crackdown period has been left untouched. Narine continued with it and the rest we know.

Secondly anyone who argues that on the evidence of those two deliveries, from different games, the second of which (vs WI) could be months after or before the first Bangladesh vid, Ashwin should be banned clearly doesn't understand the process.

It takes more than one delivery to get banned. You have to be a repeat offender. Like for instance when Narine was banned in the CLT20 Sunil Narine banned from bowling in CLT20 final | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo-



Narine wasn't banned because one ball looked suspicious, it was because in one game, he appeared to be regularly crossing the line with several deliveries, and infact four of his overs were reported. You want to compare to a guy who seems odd on one delivery in 7 years.

So even if Ashwin did come close to the line with ONE delivery, but was okay the rest of the game, it would not constitute any rational for a ban. The Narine ruling clearly explains that multiple offences are taking into account.

Also can people start taking sense here, Ashwin has been playing for 7 years now, he started in IPL 1. So if in 7 years of cricket and with all the videos available everyone, some Einstein has found 2 deliveries, TWO, where Ashwin is unconventional, TWO deliveries in 7 years mind you ... then how does even fall in the same category as offenders like Narine who are deemed to be repeatedly crossing the limits in the same game.

How can those two cases be treated at par to begin with is beyond me.

I didn't get timeline wrong. I wasn't refering to the BANG series, was always focusing on the part of video which showed him bowling in WI series which of course happened after the crackdown begin (dates which I'm well aware of) when he bowled with that funny action.

So regarding that specific point - Overall though don't really disagree because let's be clear I'm not suggesting Ashwin is a chucker just trying to make sense from my POV on the video (WI series) - since i'm well aware based on umpires viewpoint a bowler has to bowling numerous amount of balls questionable to be reported.

The little highlights of WI game don't say whether he bowled it in an over fully, more than one overs or just one ball. I have no problem presuming it probably wasn't much balls & thus all it well because ICC has been very consistent in crackdown everywhere

 

[War]

Marlon Samuels banned from bowling for 12 months | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Like Hafeez, he should just stop trying to bowl and wasting the bio-mechanics experts time.