Australia & England opposing the doosra?

[angryangy]

Supposing they decided to teach it, what would they teach? Murali bowled with a permanently bent elbow and incredible shoulder rotations. Unless Murali himself puts a book out, I don't think we'll see textbooks. Ajmal also bowls with a bent elbow and with his jerky action, is even less textbook, though his wrist flick might be key to a new direction for 'finger' spin.

So I guess it would have to be the Saqlain doosra. However, Saqlain's doosra led him to mutate his stock ball around concealing it and that led him to bowl pies. Saqlain is the example of obsessing with variations that any good coach will warn about.

I think professional players have the means and the network to seek out advice and develop their own trademarks, to pick what can work and leave what doesn't; Ashley Mallett for example didn't bowl arm balls.

If we're going to put anything down in the book, I would suggest the carrom flick. It's pretty simply technically and each bowler seems to deliver it roughly the same. Even then, it's stressful on the hand; so the same reservations as the flipper must apply.

 

[spooony]

I will even throw in the Carrom ball

 

[MUFC1987]

Supposing they decided to teach it, what would they teach? Murali bowled with a permanently bent elbow and incredible shoulder rotations. Unless Murali himself puts a book out, I don't think we'll see textbooks. Ajmal also bowls with a bent elbow and with his jerky action, is even less textbook, though his wrist flick might be key to a new direction for 'finger' spin.

So I guess it would have to be the Saqlain doosra. However, Saqlain's doosra led him to mutate his stock ball around concealing it and that led him to bowl pies. Saqlain is the example of obsessing with variations that any good coach will warn about.

I think professional players have the means and the network to seek out advice and develop their own trademarks, to pick what can work and leave what doesn't; Ashley Mallett for example didn't bowl arm balls.

If we're going to put anything down in the book, I would suggest the carrom flick. It's pretty simply technically and each bowler seems to deliver it roughly the same. Even then, it's stressful on the hand; so the same reservations as the flipper must apply.

Sorry, I was probably a bit vague with what I meant. I don't mean get a coaching session and try to teach 30 kids how to do it, I just mean embrace those that do try it naturally, rather than discouraging them and making them change to a more orthodox style.

I agree that there are a lot of people like Murali who are unique, so you have to luck out to find that in a bowler, but I think you can teach a method of moving the ball the other way for the off-spinner, if you really needed too. Like you say, the flick with the finger more than the wrist movement is probably the best option for that.

 

[sifter132]

there are also inconsistencies with his statement. why is the doosra the battle gournd for integrity when there are countless other areas where the game is far less than "gentlemanly"? cricket has problems with fielders claiming dropped catches, batsmen refusing the walk when they know they're out, the preperation of favourable tracks to produce draws so to secure series. Australia (and other nations) are guilty of these so it seems somewhat convenient to claim it's the doosra causing the game to lose integrity when as people have already mentioned, australia don't have a bowler that can bowl it, despite even the efforts of players to develop them.

I've seen this reasoning used by a few people now. Australia isn't squeaky clean so how dare they point fingers...oh the outrage! Difference is that none of those things that have been mentioned are actually in the rule book: sledging, pitch preparation, walking when you've nicked it etc. They are grey areas that haven't been legislated. However a legal bowling action is clearly defined, and the laws have clearly changed in this area to favour doosra bowlers. The average Australian fan is still pissed off that the laws on throwing were relaxed.

Anyway...I think Inverarity made a serious mistake here by not making his position crystal clear. Either say that the rules are bad, or say that you are willing to play by them. Making veiled statements doesn't do any good, and it just makes Australian fans more galvanised in their anti-doosra stance. I'm a bit embarrassed that so many Aussie fans think that way, but I can certainly understand why there is a reluctance to accept the doosra given the way bowling actions have evolved recently.

Is Australia jealous they don't have a doosra bowler? Yes probably. But in case George Bailey or Inverarity didn't realise, they had a bowler that batsmen couldn't pick at the T20 World Cup - his name was Brad Hogg. And in my opinion they could have used him better.

 

[angryangy]

I will even throw in the Carrom ball

Haha perfect. Look at Mendis' front of the hand "doosra". Nobody has a fried chickening clue what a doosra is.

 

[sami ullah khan]

England was vehemently opposed to reverse swing bowling during the nineties. Once they learned it from Waqar and Wasim, they used it to reclaim ashes in 2005. It was termed an art then. This is just hypocrisy and sour grapes tbh. Once England and Aussies have bowlers with ability to bowl doosras, no one will question the legality of the delivery.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I've seen this reasoning used by a few people now. Australia isn't squeaky clean so how dare they point fingers...oh the outrage! Difference is that none of those things that have been mentioned are actually in the rule book: sledging, pitch preparation, walking when you've nicked it etc. They are grey areas that haven't been legislated. However a legal bowling action is clearly defined, and the laws have clearly changed in this area to favour doosra bowlers. The average Australian fan is still pissed off that the laws on throwing were relaxed.

Anyway...I think Inverarity made a serious mistake here by not making his position crystal clear. Either say that the rules are bad, or say that you are willing to play by them. Making veiled statements doesn't do any good, and it just makes Australian fans more galvanised in their anti-doosra stance. I'm a bit embarrassed that so many Aussie fans think that way, but I can certainly understand why there is a reluctance to accept the doosra given the way bowling actions have evolved recently.

it is still very cheeky for invaririty to claim "integrity" as the reason for opposing it when the things I mentioned are definitely questions of integrity as well. I think calling him out on that is pretty reasonable because in claiming australia are against it because it lacks integrity is to imply that invaririty and australian cricket has this integrity. I think you were sort of acknowledging that though. (maybe?)

I'm not really accusing him of double standards anyway, although I think there is a case for that, I was accusing him of making a stand over an element of modern cricket that, when considered among other aspects, is pretty arbitrary (apart from that for australia it's totally convenient). I wasn't even accusing australia of all the things I mentiond, the dead pitches to play out draws and win series is more of an indian and west indian thing. what I think sucks about it is that it's an empty announcement to make (angy makes a good point that the possibility of teaching it may be moot anyway) which can only be read as a passive aggressive swipe at other nations.

aussie fans may be pissed off about law changes and doosra bowlers but this is just a posh way of indulging in some childish name calling.

 

[Anish.]

In England, never been taught to bowl a doosra and never will do. Simply due to nobody can bowl it here in England

We are the typical Englishmen!+

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

England struggling to develop bowler capable of delivering doosra to match Pakistan's Saeed Ajmal - Telegraph

this is an interesting article with some inferences to be drawn from the ECBs approach to it.

it seems that doosra bowlers get a lot of scrutiny and in the case of that holmes guy, it's almost like they clubbed together to force him out the league. That said, saqlain spent years playing in england, murali played for a while there too, so why didn't they come under scrutiny or the counties not refuse to sign them on principal?

 

[spooony]

In England, never been taught to bowl a doosra legally and never will do. Simply due to nobody can bowl it here in England

Fixed!

 

[War]

England was vehemently opposed to reverse swing bowling during the nineties. Once they learned it from Waqar and Wasim, they used it to reclaim ashes in 2005. It was termed an art then. This is just hypocrisy and sour grapes tbh. Once England and Aussies have bowlers with ability to bowl doosras, no one will question the legality of the delivery.

Fair point this. Since both instances comes under the idea that england especially felt that reverse swign and doosra bowling was "cheating".

However wasim/waqar action's were never called in question while bowling reverse-swing, which probably make the positions england and aus administrators have against teaching and adopting the doosra one day a bit more difficult.

 

[War]

Different Strokes | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[spooony]

But England had Darren Gough who cqn reverse swing. But tell me something how was Waqar and Wasim with bowling bouncers?

 

[ZoraxDoom]

England and Australia will come around eventually. Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India, West Indies and South Africa now all have atleast one bowler who can bowl the doosra or the carrom ball. I won't be surprised if Bangladesh toss one up soon. Once England and Australia start struggling further against these sides, and slipping down the rankings, they'll start looking to encouraging spinners who have developed these variations instead of questioning their integrity.

Just a matter of time.

 

[spooony]

But how can one say all of them are bowling it legally in a match as there is now way to test a person in match conditions? Yes they can test you where you bowl within the laws but then you can go and chuck it in a match to bowl it better.