What is more difficult: Facing a quality pace attack or Facing a quality spin attack?

[Samuels]

Tbh, I do not see a difference. When you are facing a "quality" attack, you are bound to face tough times irrespective of the wicket. I would like to change the question a bit and ask is a 'fast' bowling really challenging or the swing? Personally, I would be love to face a bowler steaming in at 140 Kmph than a man moving the ball around the place at 130 Kmph or even 125 kmph especially when the ball skids (spell check) off the surface, it is very very hard to pick the correct shot for the batsman. Coming to the spinners, I think the ones who can move it away from the bat from a full length are the most difficult ones for me.

 

[cricket_icon]

I've read a lot of responses on this thread and I agree with all those saying that the difficulty facing these different attacks is down to conditions, teams and batsmen.

Of course, the danger is far more physical with regards to fast bowlers and pace attacks, especially great pace attacks, like the Windies of the 80s or the recent run that Johnson has had or guys like Younis, Akram and Donald in the 90s. In all honesty, although most fast bowlers can ball at good speeds, few are as physically intimidating as the great West Indian quartets of old, even the great Akram was known more for skill and swing than pace and bounce but that danger is always lurking. Younis used the yorker as a great offensive weapon, destroying stumps and toes as he went.

In terms of spinners, the "danger" is far more cerebral, with batsmen fearing humiliation rather than physical hardship but the difficulty is still there. How many modern batsmen have played Ajmal's doosra well? And how many have played it consistently? Has Ajmal destroyed teams? Well just ask England, the then number one side and even the Indians failed to cope with him at his best. How about the magic of Murali or the intelligence of Warne? Who remembers Saqlain and what he could do in both tests and ODIs? Abdul Qadir maybe or the steady barrage of consistency from Kumble?

There are some batsmen who play spin exceptionally well and fear pace, there are some who ruthlessly dismantle fast bowlers for fun yet cower before a small offy, so all in all, the difficulty, as is the word used in this thread title, is down to the individuals involved.

 

[War]

I've read a lot of responses on this thread and I agree with all those saying that the difficulty facing these different attacks is down to conditions, teams and batsmen.

Of course, the danger is far more physical with regards to fast bowlers and pace attacks, especially great pace attacks, like the Windies of the 80s or the recent run that Johnson has had or guys like Younis, Akram and Donald in the 90s. In all honesty, although most fast bowlers can ball at good speeds, few are as physically intimidating as the great West Indian quartets of old, even the great Akram was known more for skill and swing than pace and bounce but that danger is always lurking. Younis used the yorker as a great offensive weapon, destroying stumps and toes as he went.

In terms of spinners, the "danger" is far more cerebral, with batsmen fearing humiliation rather than physical hardship but the difficulty is still there. How many modern batsmen have played Ajmal's doosra well? And how many have played it consistently? Has Ajmal destroyed teams? Well just ask England, the then number one side and even the Indians failed to cope with him at his best. How about the magic of Murali or the intelligence of Warne? Who remembers Saqlain and what he could do in both tests and ODIs? Abdul Qadir maybe or the steady barrage of consistency from Kumble?

There are some batsmen who play spin exceptionally well and fear pace, there are some who ruthlessly dismantle fast bowlers for fun yet cower before a small offy, so all in all, the difficulty, as is the word used in this thread title, is down to the individuals involved.

How many test batsmen in history have had to: alter their techniques/games or have had their careers ended due to their inability to handle top quality spinners?

 

[puddleduck]

139

 

[cricket_icon]

How many test batsmen in history have had to: alter their techniques/games or have had their careers ended due to their inability to handle top quality spinners?

Many test batsmen have had to adapt their technique to play better cricket outside of England/Aus/SA. Look at England's abysmal record in the subcontinent, the fact that English batsmen have found it so hard to play spin has been a major factor. Many batsmen have had to work on their skill against spin, Australia has had relative success because they have produced batsmen like Clarke and a few others who can bat ok-ish against spin.

I don't know about spin bowling ending anyone's career and I can't think of too many, truly top level batsmen having their careers ended due to pace bowling either, although, like I've already said, the danger is far more physical with a fast bowler so of course their will be more injuries associated with facing them.

 

[War]

Many test batsmen have had to adapt their technique to play better cricket outside of England/Aus/SA. Look at England's abysmal record in the subcontinent, the fact that English batsmen have found it so hard to play spin has been a major factor. Many batsmen have had to work on their skill against spin, Australia has had relative success because they have produced batsmen like Clarke and a few others who can bat ok-ish against spin.

I don't know about spin bowling ending anyone's career and I can't think of too many, truly top level batsmen having their careers ended due to pace bowling either, although, like I've already said, the danger is far more physical with a fast bowler so of course their will be more injuries associated with facing them.

Ye many non Asian batsmen historically have had to adjust their techniques to score runs freely in the SC - but that adjustment never threatend or cause their careers to end.

- Ponting famously failed versus IND 2001, dramatically but that series failure didn't end his career.

- Mark Waugh i recalled had 3 or 4 ducks in a row in SRI 1993 - that didn't cause him probs.

- Justin Langer couldn't play off spin for years - never caused him to to be dropped.

- Ian Bell & Trott struggled for a were suspect versus spin for long periods of their careers before they scored hundreds in ENG 2012 - but that never caused them to be dropped.

- Darylll Cullinan was Shane Warne's bunny - but SA never dropped him due to his fault.

These are the ones that immediately come to mind...

With pace the contrast is stark

- Vinod Kambli who was a prodigy with Tendulkar, scoring a few double hundreds in his first few tests. Then Windies exposed his inability to play the short ball - he was out of international cricket.

- Great AUS opener of the 1930s Bill Ponsford scored tons or runs. But when he faced the pace of Harold Larwood in Bodyline, he was scene running to square leg and was never the same again.

- Graeme Hick had a stop start career in the 90s mainly because he never handled the high quality 90s pace attacks well.

- As mentioned above, Trott failures versus spin intially never put his place under treat - but in 2013 when Johsnon started attacking him with short pitched bowling, he was facing the most serious technical test of his career before his mental issues took its toll.

- A history of Indian batsmen from Nari Contractor in the 60s to Sehwag, Gambhir, Yurvraj, Raina, Jaffer all had their test careers ended due to vulnerabilities against the pace.

- AUS opener Matt Elliot, Greg Blewett did't last long in test because of vulnerabilites versus pace.

- Many AUS & ENG batsmen in the 70s & 80s had short careers due to failures versus the WIndies pacers

- Even recently Michael Clarke was looking vulnerable versus the short ball versus Broad, until he sorted himself out

 

[cricket_icon]

Ye many non Asian batsmen historically have had to adjust their techniques to score runs freely in the SC - but that adjustment never threatend or cause their careers to end.

- Ponting famously failed versus IND 2001, dramatically but that series failure didn't end his career.

- Mark Waugh i recalled had 3 or 4 ducks in a row in SRI 1993 - that didn't cause him probs.

- Justin Langer couldn't play off spin for years - never caused him to to be dropped.

- Ian Bell & Trott struggled for a were suspect versus spin for long periods of their careers before they scored hundreds in ENG 2012 - but that never caused them to be dropped.

- Darylll Cullinan was Shane Warne's bunny - but SA never dropped him due to his fault.

These are the ones that immediately come to mind...

With pace the contrast is stark

- Vinod Kambli who was a prodigy with Tendulkar, scoring a few double hundreds in his first few tests. Then Windies exposed his inability to play the short ball - he was out of international cricket.

- Great AUS opener of the 1930s Bill Ponsford scored tons or runs. But when he faced the pace of Harold Larwood in Bodyline, he was scene running to square leg and was never the same again.

- Graeme Hick had a stop start career in the 90s mainly because he never handled the high quality 90s pace attacks well.

- As mentioned above, Trott failures versus spin intially never put his place under treat - but in 2013 when Johsnon started attacking him with short pitched bowling, he was facing the most serious technical test of his career before his mental issues took its toll.

- A history of Indian batsmen from Nari Contractor in the 60s to Sehwag, Gambhir, Yurvraj, Raina, Jaffer all had their test careers ended due to vulnerabilities against the pace.

- AUS opener Matt Elliot, Greg Blewett did't last long in test because of vulnerabilites versus pace.

- Many AUS & ENG batsmen in the 70s & 80s had short careers due to failures versus the WIndies pacers

- Even recently Michael Clarke was looking vulnerable versus the short ball versus Broad, until he sorted himself out

No, you're making far too many assumptions. You can't just say "A and B failed against fast bowling so their career ended". No it didn't.

Trott hadn't been on his best form for a while and his mental illness was longstanding. Mitchs bowling may have off set things but it has hardly ended his career, he can still come back and he has handled Aus pace bowler's many times in the past.

Clarke has never been at a point where his career has looked close to finishing, not even remotely close.

 

[Maht80]

I think if you're facing good bowlers it doesn't matter the type of attack. Neither is preferable and both have to be approached in different ways by the batter. Some batters play better against spin and some against pace.

 

[War]

No, you're making far too many assumptions. You can't just say "A and B failed against fast bowling so their career ended". No it didn't.

Trott hadn't been on his best form for a while and his mental illness was longstanding. Mitchs bowling may have off set things but it has hardly ended his career, he can still come back and he has handled Aus pace bowler's many times in the past.

Clarke has never been at a point where his career has looked close to finishing, not even remotely close.

Huh?, I didn't make any assumption - all the scenario's i mentioned above was the facts about how each players careers progressed.

Trott as we understand by what the ENG managerment reported has been playing with a mental while he was scoring runs since his debut in 2009. However up until 2013, when Johnson 1st tried it in ODIs in ENG, no fast bowler ever attacked with consistent bodyline bowling. AUS certainly didn't do that when he was scoring runs for fun in Ashes 2010/11.

Thus quite evidently this recent exposure was threatening to end Trott's career before he eventually left because of his mental issues.

On Clarke, i didn't say his career was close to finishing - i said he was showin some vulnerabilities vs the short ball, before he sorted it out.

During the Ashes in England, Stuart Broad got him in consistently that way & it became a big concern when it was repeated during the 1st innings of the 1st test in Brisbane. Even Martin Crowe & cricinfo editor Sambit Bal, wrote about it at the time:

- Sambit Bal: Michael Clarke's short-ball problem | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

- The battle Michael Clarke can win | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

But of course Clarke, like a truly top-class batsmen countered this problem with his 2nd innings Gabba hundred & EN abandoned the plan vs him.

 

[cricket_icon]

Let's just agree to disagree.

The fact remains, when you have a quality bowler, no matter what type he is, he will still be quality and win matches.

 

[grkrama]

Sehwag, Gambhir, Yurvraj, Raina, Jaffer all had their test careers ended due to vulnerabilities against the pace.

I see you are from the school 'Indians cant play short balls',
sehwag career ended due to reflex slow down and ageing,he had short ball in to his body problem for a long time but wasnt dropped same with sourav.
Gambhir - loss of form
Yuvi - He is actually good against pace likes the ball coming to the bat can hook and pull ,but has problems negotiating spin early in the innings,he is dropped now due to loss of form.
Jaffer- Loss of form ,right from the last few tests against pak to aus series and the Sa series at home.
So these are assumptions at best.
Vinod Kambli did have problems against short ball

Kambli's problems were compounded by indiscipline and an obsession with the width of his bat-handle, which had nine grips on at one time.

Hughes couldnt scramble spin for example.

For the question


If a player has indefinite problem with any type of bowling he will be dropped.
What is more difficult: Facing a quality pace attack or Facing a quality spin attack?
It Depends on the surface
the bowler skill level with pace or spin
Batsman skill level against pace or spin.

Thats the answer for the question asked

if the question were which is more feared by batsman getting his head chopped off by a short one on green track or a flipper stinging into his box in a dustbowl the answer would be open for debate.

 

[War]

I see you are from the school 'Indians cant play short balls',
sehwag career ended due to reflex slow down and ageing,he had short ball in to his body problem for a long time but wasnt dropped same with sourav.
Gambhir - loss of form
Yuvi - He is actually good against pace likes the ball coming to the bat can hook and pull ,but has problems negotiating spin early in the innings,he is dropped now due to loss of form.
Jaffer- Loss of form ,right from the last few tests against pak to aus series and the Sa series at home.
So these are assumptions at best.
Vinod Kambli did have problems against short ball

Kambli's problems were compounded by indiscipline and an obsession with the width of his bat-handle, which had nine grips on at one time.

Hughes couldnt scramble spin for example.

Never understand why Indian get so defensive when you accuse their batsmen of have deficiencies vs the short ball. India & all Asian batsman by default always have this problem - the same way how the non asian teams batters of AUS/ENG/SA/NZ/WI have default problems versus playing spin.

This is a obviously historical trend simply because if you grow up in Asia, quality pace & bouncy pitches aren't regularly seen & outside Asia you certainly don't grow facing spin on dustbowls.

Only maybe Windies batsmen who grew up in Guyana & Trinidad or AUS batsmen from Sydney are the non-asian batsmen who have a unique early ability to play spin well i.e Waugh Bro, Walters, Bob Simpson, Hooper, Chanerpaul, Lara, Kanhai, Lloyd, Clarke


There wasn't enough good fast bowlers & enough bouncy bitches around to expose Sehwag's issues with the short ball (along with his other glaring faults) until the last few years

Ganguly wasn't the greatest vs the short ball yes, but i don't think he was that poor against it like some Asian batsmen tend to be, which is why he managed to have a solid test career.

Yuvraj was always crap vs the short ball, saw him out fending (and not knowing where his off-stump was) many times he faced good bowling attacks in tests.

Gambhir issues vs the short ball & faulty technique was 1st exposed by Morne Morkel when S Africa came to India in 2010. In the last two years other good bowling attacks have followed what Morkel did & his runs dried up.

Jaffer had 1 good year (2006-2007) after being out of the team for about 4 years then in late 2007 when the world worked him out technically, he failed vs AUS & SA 2007/08 & was dropped.


Hughes is not the greatest vs spin. But that didn't cause him to be dropped, it was his struggles vs the ENG pace attack (first exposed by Flintoff in 2009) that has set his career back.

For the questiongot


If a player has indefinite problem with any type of bowling he will be dropped.

Nope, i don't know of any batsman (mainly non asian) in which a long term deficiency vs spin caused them to be dropped. But i know of many where long term deficiency vs quality pace did, however.

What is more difficult: Facing a quality pace attack or Facing a quality spin attack?
It Depends on the surface
the bowler skill level with pace or spin
Batsman skill level against pace or spin.

Thats the answer for the question asked

if the question were which is more feared by batsman getting his head chopped off by a short one on green track or a flipper stinging into his box in a dustbowl the answer would be open for debate.

So answer this question, guys like Justin Langer & Damien martyn who grew batting on the Perth pitch, but it gave them issues at certain points of their careers when playing in Asia.

What you reckon was more difficult for them facing the windies pace attack when they were younger on that Perth pitch they grew up in the 1992/93 series on or their struggles to adapt to playing spin in Asia?

 

[grkrama]

Never understand why Indian get so defensive when you accuse their batsmen of have deficiencies vs the short ball. India & all Asian batsman by default always have this problem - the same way how the non asian teams batters of AUS/ENG/SA/NZ/WI have default problems versus playing spin.

Too much generalization there, Its more of a view rather than fact all players apart from the Really good ones, have difficulty facing
Fast Short pitch bowling as evident from recent ashes, also all batsman have difficulty handling Quality spinners,except the really good ones,example swann monty in india on a turner, pak collapsing to kumble in delhi etc, maybe that's why people get defensive when we stereotype.

Also you are entering territory where the question changes from 'whats difficult to face pace or spin?'
To 'who finds it more difficult to face Subcontinent players / Overseas players?'.

This is a obviously historical trend simply because if you grow up in Asia, quality pace & bouncy pitches aren't regularly seen & outside Asia you certainly don't grow facing spin on dustbowls.
Only maybe Windies batsmen who grew up in Guyana & Trinidad or AUS batsmen from Sydney are the non-asian batsmen who have a unique early ability to play spin well i.e Waugh Bro, Walters, Bob Simpson, Hooper, Chanerpaul, Lara, Kanhai, Lloyd, Clarke

Again generalization cant be passed as facts, and also the same who finds it difficult rather than which is difficult to play, there are lot better spin players outside subcontinent or subcontinent based pitches in the world than that.

Sehwag's issues with the short ball (along with his other glaring faults) until the last few years

Sehwag's issues was exposed way back and he found a way around it by clipping down to fine leg, he had problems with one coming in to him around hips rather then the typical short one going down the throat, he could pull those ones a bit, and he lost form because of his reflex slow down that's a fact.

Ganguly wasn't the greatest vs the short ball yes, but i don't think he was that poor against it like some Asian batsmen tend to be, which is why he managed to have a solid test career.

Ganguly had serious problem against shortpitch deliveries for almost a long time (around 2 years was not dropped), but was helped out of it by greg chappel which also led to his appointment later as coach and we know how it turned out for both of them,but its a discussion for another time.He overcame it and continued.

Yuvi hasn't been the same since comeback he is definitely not dropped because he cant face short balls, his replacement is raina mind it so yuvi is dropped definitely due to lack of form.

Jaffer loss of form and he is failure came at home against all attacks, it was mostly nicking behind to keeper/LBW of swinging deliveries.

Nope, i don't know of any batsman (mainly non asian) in which a long term deficiency vs spin caused them to be dropped. But i know of many where long term deficiency vs quality pace did, however.

Citation required

What you reckon was more difficult for them facing the windies pace attack when they were younger on that Perth pitch they grew up in the 1992/93 series on or their struggles to adapt to playing spin in Asia?

How can i know how they felt, Taking such a small sample for such a general question is not apt.
Again you are entering the fear territory, Batsman fear exceptional short pitched pace deliveries aimed towards them(apart from Piers Morgan ofcourse). But it doesnt make it any less difficult than facing a wrong un.If i get out to a delivery bamboozled whether its a doosra,Shortpitch one, late swing, reverse swing its is difficult for me to face.
Like i said before difficulty depends on
The individual batting
The individual Bowling
The surface/environment(climate) provided.
We cant have a answer for this question without all the three variables provided, otherwise whatever is said would be a self made assumption at best.

 

[War]

Too much generalization there, Its more of a view rather than fact all players apart from the Really good ones, have difficulty facing
Fast Short pitch bowling as evident from recent ashes, also all batsman have difficulty handling Quality spinners,except the really good ones,example swann monty in india on a turner, pak collapsing to kumble in delhi etc, maybe that's why people get defensive when we stereotype.

Also you are entering territory where the question changes from 'whats difficult to face pace or spin?'
To 'who finds it more difficult to face Subcontinent players / Overseas players?'.

Yes obviously as Mitchell Johnson is bowling right now, whether you a Asian or non -asian side, that type of pace bowling will own anybody. Also i'm not moving from the general thread topic, just answering the specific questions you brought up here.

Its a proven historical fact that non-asian batsmen are more versatile than asian batsmen:


Asian batsmen:

Off my head in test cricket i know both India and Pakistan and have won a few test series in England: India (1971, 1986, 2007), Pakistan (1987, 1992, 1996). But no such successes in S Africa or Australia, while S Lanka have yet to taste any test success in those area's.

India have also won their last two test tours in the West Indies (2006, 2011), but we all know this was in a time in West Indies decline from their previous lofty heights. PAK although they had some great battles with the windies during their glory days (should have won that famous 1988 tour to the windies) have yet to win a series in the Caribbean.

Shorter formats, India won world series in 1985 and 2008, while winning the inaugural t20 world cup in 2007 in S Africa & Champ trophy.

Pakistan won the 92 world cup in AUS, world series 1996, 09 t20 w-cup in England and their 2-1 odi-series win in Australia 2002 was one of the VERY few ODI series AUS lost in more than 10 years during the glory years.

SRI i don't have any other notable overseas ODI series triumphs other than to that 2-1 2010 series win in AUS 2010.



Rest of the world batsmen:

With regards to the non-Asian teams, well its obvious England and New Zealand have to worst records in the sub-continent in all formats, since IND/PAk/ became forces @ home since the 1970s and SRI in the late 90s.

NZ outside of a 1-0 series win in Pakistan 1969/70, have zero success in the regions big boys since they have been a force @ home.

ENG were okay up until the start of the 1980s, since they along with AUS/SA/WI have won big test series in India, since became a force @ home
in 76/77 (ENG), 83/84 & 74/75 (WI), 2000 (SA) and 2004 (AUS) respectively.

Otherwise other than that famous 2000/01 winter, when England won test series in Pakistan and SRI Lanka & the 2012 2-1 win in India & a ODI series win in SRI 2007 - they have been poor all over Asia.


AUS for example although they had struggled to win a test series in India much after 1969, except for the famous win in 2004. Between 1998 -2011, AUS actually have won every completed ODI series or tournament that they have played in India.

Their last test official test series in Pakistan 1998 was won. And, although although they found Ajmal to be very difficult to handle in recent years, still managed to win ODI series vs PAK in UAE 2009 & 2012.

Similarly in SRI Lanka, won their last two ODI series in that nation (2004, 2011) and test series 2004.

S Africa have been very competitive in India since readmission, drawing a fair few series which they probably could have won. While losing in 96 & 2004.

Not fully sure about S Africa's limited overs record throughout the region though. Nor their test record in Pakistan or Sri Lanka, although i remember them winning in Pakistan 1998 in a famous test series.

The Windies in their heyday never lost in India or Pakistan up until 1997, expect for a 1-0 defeat in 1979/80 to India mainly because their best players were unavailable due to the world series fiasco.

Again generalization cant be passed as facts, and also the same who finds it difficult rather than which is difficult to play, there are lot better spin players outside subcontinent or subcontinent based pitches in the world than that.

Ha but i gave you names of specific non asian player who have played spin well, how is that a generalization? Are you saying then that Windies batsmen who grew up in Guyana & Trinidad or AUS batsmen from Sydney who had a unique early ability to play spin well i.e Waugh Bro, Walters, Bob Simpson, Hooper, Chanerpaul, Lara, Kanhai, Lloyd, Clarke were not good players of spin?

Plus i specifically speaking about non asian batsmen in this case, with reference to the obvious fact that non asian bats don't grow up facing a diet a spin on turners/dustbowls. This is very common cricket knowledge.

Sehwag's issues was exposed way back and he found a way around it by clipping down to fine leg, he had problems with one coming in to him around hips rather then the typical short one going down the throat, he could pull those ones a bit, and he lost form because of his reflex slow down that's a fact.

They were very few to zero fast bowlers & pretty much no bouncy tracks that Sehwag faced to really expose Sehwag short ball issues for the majority of his career, up until around 2011. You don't get away with playing high quality pace on bouncy deck, by just clipping it down to fine leg with any degree of ease.

The pull & hook shots were never part of Sehwag's shot repertoire. His reflexes may have slown down, but his technical faults were always the same, even while his reflexes were supposedly at his peak. He was vulnerable to sharp inswingers from the 1st time Shane Bond exposed it in NZ 2002, to when the ENG/AUS quicks were still doing it in his last tests in 2012/13.

Ganguly had serious problem against shortpitch deliveries for almost a long time (around 2 years was not dropped), but was helped out of it by greg chappel which also led to his appointment later as coach and we know how it turned out for both of them,but its a discussion for another time.He overcame it and continued.

Ye i'm aware of this, he never was perfect - but as you said he overcame it. His brisbane 2003 hundred case in point.

Azharuddin was the same thing, he was never good vs the pace, especially overseas. But he countered it by being somewhat overly aggressive Lords 1990 & in SA 96 hundreds, case in point.

Yuvi hasn't been the same since comeback he is definitely not dropped because he cant face short balls, his replacement is raina mind it so yuvi is dropped definitely due to lack of form.

Jaffer loss of form and he is failure came at home against all attacks, it was mostly nicking behind to keeper/LBW of swinging deliveries.

I've seen Yuvraj targeted and dismissed many times in his test career especially by playing the short ball poorly. Or being outfoxed by the two card trick: bounce him, then the full ball which get him bowled due to his general lack of footwork.

Jaffer struggled in AUS 07/08 as you said nicking of the keeper/LBW against Lee mainly. But Lee softened him many times with the short ball & he didn't have the pull/hook shot skills to counter him.

Citation required

I already listed the asia batsmen who struggled in previous post. If anything you would have to show me the non-asian batsmen who you know of, that had their careers ended because they failed miserably in a series vs spin or who their national selectors stopped picking them because of their deficiencies vs spin.

How can i know how they felt, Taking such a small sample for such a general question is not apt.
Again you are entering the fear territory, Batsman fear exceptional short pitched pace deliveries aimed towards them(apart from Piers Morgan ofcourse). But it doesnt make it any less difficult than facing a wrong un.If i get out to a delivery bamboozled whether its a doosra,Shortpitch one, late swing, reverse swing its is difficult for me to face.
Like i said before difficulty depends on
The individual batting
The individual Bowling
The surface/environment(climate) provided.
We cant have a answer for this question without all the three variables provided, otherwise whatever is said would be a self made assumption at best.

I'm not using the Langer/Martyn Perth example as total viewpoint of the entire situation. I mentioned it as a small example, just to show you that despite growing up on Perth - young Langer/Martyn found the windies 4 prong attack on debut to be very difficult & that immediately caused them to be dropped after they struggled.

When they got recalled, they both remained very poor versus spin until the back end of their careers when AUS won in SRI 2004. But their failures versus spin never caused them to be dropped.

The fear factor is part of challenge of facing fast bowling, clearly facing a 90 mph high quality fast bowler on a bouncy deck is more difficult than negotiating a brilliantly pitches wrong un from a high quality spinner.

A next factor with high quality pacers vs their spin counterparts is that they can bowl in all conditions - spinners cannot. Even Warne/Murali on a day 1 greentop would be forced to be a defensive bowler for their captains.

But the great fast bowlers like Imran/Marshall/Lillee/Donald etc etc etc on a 4th/day wearing/turning track could still be effective because they mastered the art of reverse swing.

 

[grkrama]

The best side in their best form with quality players win overseas.

Its a proven historical fact that non-asian batsmen are more versatile than asian batsmen

NO it is not its your view whatever stats you gave are not conclusive enough, its selective quoting, Versatility doesn't mean winning a series i can lose a series/match still be a versatile batsman.

To be honest the Stats while provide you some idea never tell the full story, Player composition, captaining errors ,weather, how they lost etc , also the two teams that have actually punched Hard away are arguably two of the best teams of their era WI and Aus.
Also historical facts never hold good with current gen lot has changed from protective gear to rules.

Are you saying then that Windies batsmen who grew up in Guyana & Trinidad or AUS batsmen from Sydney who had a unique early ability to play spin well i.e Waugh Bro, Walters, Bob Simpson, Hooper, Chanerpaul, Lara, Kanhai, Lloyd, Clarke were not good players of spin?

I did say there are lots of players outside SC who play spin well as there are those who play Pace well who are from SC. sunny,imran,srt,mahela,aravinda de silva,dravid etc

TSehwag matter

Im not arguing Sehwag was great against Pace on helpful surface (have to dig and verify it for sure you never know )but he wasnt dropped because of that right now he cant even play spin of club bowlers that's reflex catching up. may be we should agree to disagree on this, its your view.
which is

They were very few to zero fast bowlers

wow,He defnitely performed well in a generation of Lee,Bond,tait,nel,Akthar,steyn etc dont say to me they didnt know how to bounce a batsman.
Sehwag can definitely hook and pull.

Again yuvi, I have seen him play short ball as better as anyone when in form.
jaff isnt really the greatest player after all, but he left shortball well,they were not dropped because they cant handle short ball, but loss of form due to lot of factors.

I already listed the asia batsmen who struggled in previous post. If anything you would have to show me the non-asian batsmen who you know of, that had their careers ended because they failed miserably in a series vs spin or who their national selectors stopped picking them because of their deficiencies vs spin.

A few lads in aus from the ind tour, i have to dig more to present you with proper facts on this matter will get around it in a few days.

Could it also be the fact that you dont have consecutive subcontinent tours that often, So even if its difficult to play spin it doesnt matter cause the next series is against SA or NZ on faster pitches and you have a good record there.
One series failure mostly doesnt get players dropped two series in a row does, also most subcontinent tours are short ,mostly with 2 or 3 tests to have lasting impact on career. The players you mentioned while not great players of spin were only troubled on very helpful conditions against quality spinners. The amount of times they go through this ordeal would be lesser than the amount of times they have to face quality pacers in helpful conditions.
I remember Martyn putting a daddy hundred with a Double century stand with Gillespie against harbhajan in india.

clearly facing a 90 mph high quality fast bowler on a bouncy deck is more difficult than negotiating a brilliantly pitches wrong un from a high quality spinner.

Your personal view and you are reinstating that.
The only thing that the batsman fear the most is getting out doesnt matter how, esp with today's protective gear.

A next factor with high quality pacers vs their spin counterparts is that they can bowl in all conditions - spinners cannot. Even Warne/Murali on a day 1 greentop would be forced to be a defensive bowler for their captains.

Hence why i said environment variable, it is true that fast bowlers have extra options in that regard,but how many fast bowlers can do all of that well is questionable and how many times have they did it successfully.
But the questions was who is difficult to play not who is effective in all conditions.
Also there are dead pitches were spinners are more effective than pacers.