Worst match of the year

[angryangy]

this squad will be on the top of the world in 2005

One of the problems with the Indian squad is that it is depending on the past to revive a lot. Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid; ideally these would be a victorious combination, but currently they lack the magic. They are in the team for what they have done, what they can do, not what they are doing. Most likely, the top order will come good again and start firing without hassle.
The real weakness is in the pace attack. India too often play just two quicks and waste the delicious seam and shine on the new ball. Partly, this is because at the end of the day, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra and Agit Agarkar suck. In order to dominate consistently around the world, this should be their key target for improvement. Look at other teams, even Sri Lanka, whose home wickets are often partisan to spin, have the reliability of Vaas.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

One of the problems with the Indian squad is that it is depending on the past to revive a lot. Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid; ideally these would be a victorious combination, but currently they lack the magic. They are in the team for what they have done, what they can do, not what they are doing. Most likely, the top order will come good again and start firing without hassle.
The real weakness is in the pace attack. India too often play just two quicks and waste the delicious seam and shine on the new ball. Partly, this is because at the end of the day, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra and Agit Agarkar suck. In order to dominate consistently around the world, this should be their key target for improvement. Look at other teams, even Sri Lanka, whose home wickets are often partisan to spin, have the reliability of Vaas.

Actually Irfan has real talent and is still inexperienced, and Agarkar needs to be in the team for more than 3 matches at a time............Zaheer Khan has hit bad form and Nehra is overrated. I think they all could be good if Ganguly gave them more overs in Tests and ODIs instead of short 4-6 over spells in Tests and just 8 overs in an ODI.......

you are just like ganguly zorax just like him you cant digest the beating you got from pakistan in india.

Only that one match, cause defending 270+ and still losing......thats disgraceful........

 

[SaiSrini]

I agree.. India are inconsistent. But how can they be crap if they are able to beat Pakistan in Pakistan and draw level with Australia in their own backyard. and again dnt say that i am resting on past laurels. i have the right to rest on them as a team with real potential can only achieve all those success!! YEs they have hit bad form but that doesnt make them crap. Being optimistic is not at all wrong. Irfan Pathan is bowling very well now and who said Zaheer is in bad form?/ He has hit back his previous good form (could be due to competition with pathan!). Kumble is at his peak and so is Bhajji (Bhajji can correct his action and always off spinners with their doosra's are called chuckers!). Now, Kaif and Yuvraj are doing well too. Lets see what happens in 2005. India would do better than 2004 in 2005!

 

[indiancricketer]

I agree.. India are inconsistent. But how can they be crap if they are able to beat Pakistan in Pakistan and draw level with Australia in their own backyard. and again dnt say that i am resting on past laurels. i have the right to rest on them as a team with real potential can only achieve all those success!! YEs they have hit bad form but that doesnt make them crap. Being optimistic is not at all wrong. Irfan Pathan is bowling very well now and who said Zaheer is in bad form?/ He has hit back his previous good form (could be due to competition with pathan!). Kumble is at his peak and so is Bhajji (Bhajji can correct his action and always off spinners with their doosra's are called chuckers!). Now, Kaif and Yuvraj are doing well too. Lets see what happens in 2005. India would do better than 2004 in 2005!

i Agree i hope india can do much better dis year...maybe it be worth while sometimes to watch...b4 when dey slacked of i just closed the t.v and now hopefully they can do much better... kaif and yuvraj are doing well and same as the indian bolwers but dey gotta do much better it cant depend on kaif and yuvraj 2 win the match, it needs team work.. needs good consistant batting by tendulkar,dravid, ganguly laxmen and the rest of the team... so hopefully they can do better in 2005

 

[MWaugh]

hey guys i only just stumbled on this thread today. the worst gave i have ever seen in my entire life is unfortunatly the 2 world cup finals in 99 and 2003 (thats actually 2 games isnt it) 99 because pakistan couldnt bat to save their life and left australia with no real cricket to play and 2003 because australia batted so well (that was absolutly great) but then as soon as tendulkar got out in the 1st over off mcgrath the world cup was going to oz. never a question of an upset in either match

I agree.. India are inconsistent. But how can they be crap if they are able to beat Pakistan in Pakistan and draw level with Australia in their own backyard. and again dnt say that i am resting on past laurels. i have the right to rest on them as a team with real potential can only achieve all those success!! YEs they have hit bad form but that doesnt make them crap. Being optimistic is not at all wrong. Irfan Pathan is bowling very well now and who said Zaheer is in bad form?/ He has hit back his previous good form (could be due to competition with pathan!). Kumble is at his peak and so is Bhajji (Bhajji can correct his action and always off spinners with their doosra's are called chuckers!). Now, Kaif and Yuvraj are doing well too. Lets see what happens in 2005. India would do better than 2004 in 2005!

as for this india poor performers thing i dont think beating pakistan in pakistan is something that can be rated at the top of anyones hit list. did anybody see the results of when australia played pakistan. they were bowled out for 60 odd in the second innings in perth. if you look at the pitches india played on in austalia last time round (except brisbane) they were more like indian style pitches than australian pitches. we had never produced such dead dry dust bowls (eg sydney) until india came out. they havent had a good fast bowler in so long. and its dissapointing because they are the best batting side on paper, they just need 1 or 2 really good fast bowlers (eg a mcgrath or lee) and a keeper would be nice to

 

[icyman]

as for this india poor performers thing i dont think beating pakistan in pakistan is something that can be rated at the top of anyones hit list. did anybody see the results of when australia played pakistan. they were bowled out for 60 odd in the second innings in perth. if you look at the pitches india played on in austalia last time round (except brisbane) they were more like indian style pitches than australian pitches. we had never produced such dead dry dust bowls (eg sydney) until india came out. they havent had a good fast bowler in so long. and its dissapointing because they are the best batting side on paper, they just need 1 or 2 really good fast bowlers (eg a mcgrath or lee) and a keeper would be nice to

How can you say that....there is a lot of pressure on india and pak to win in the opposition ...
iu suppose you not being a subcontinent resident would'nt know that......

you talk about pitches waugh,then thats ur problem ... i suppose every team produces pitches to help their own side....
at the mumbai test ...what have you got to say about that?
i suppose the FINAL FRONTIER WAS beating india in their own backyard....
that is to play on dusybowls in the subcontinent and win...but you did not mange that
look at the first test test in gabba ...we were something 85/4 when ganguly scored that brilliant 144.....

i think its the aussie 'never lose'....thats residing ur mind right now.....we have got irfan,balaji and two great spinners and 2 great keepers in ms dhoni and karthick. :cool:

 

[SaiSrini]

See Mr. MWaugh, Aussies not preparing the pitch to suit their team is not India's fault. India played well on whatever they were offered. Why be generous on the first place and then deprive credit if you did not perform as expected??

India vs Pakistan on any day is pressure.. Both teams feel it against each other. Even if both teams are at their weakest, pressure is there becoz something more than cricket is being played on the field! Its a big rivalry. So, India's victories over Pakistan in Pakistan can always be rated highly!

 

[ravigoteti]

lets see,
Gillispie has a good record on those very grounds where india played australia. He averages 27 in brisbane and adelaide, lee has good record on those grounds. The truth is, india played well to their potential against australia and pakistan.

 

[sohum]

as for this india poor performers thing i dont think beating pakistan in pakistan is something that can be rated at the top of anyones hit list.

India beating Pakistan in Pakistan is not rated very highly? I am sure you are old enough to understand that cricket is not all about statistics and there is ACTUALLY (gasp) a human element involved. India vs Pakistan is as high as pressure can get. Special visas were given out for people to watch the match...why? Because the political relations between the country aren't exactly spiffy. The pressure is absolutely immense and the pleasure gained from the victory is clearly evident on the faces of the winners. In fact, I would rate this victory the best performance of the New India team, and place the 1-1 drawn series in Australia second. (Maybe not, but what the heck).

Ha ha, don't take my comments personally but India and Pakistan is always big. Things happen that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Players play beyond their potential. And that is why there is no matching rivalry in world cricket.

 

[sachinisgod]

dude Mwaugh...u don't have a clue about cricket and life, if u think beating pakistan in pakistan is a bluff... frankly go and ask ur namesake's twin - what it felt to lose out on the final frontier...Pakistan was similar to Indians...50 years' wait...more than a 150 crore hearts praying for it...and don't start jumping about just coz u got the Pakistan team out for 60 in Perth...frankly no other team other than W.A. should be allowed to cross 100 at Perth by your GREAT bowling lineup...and if Asian teams say that the Perth's a trampoline its a sin but Mumbai is a hole just coz the GREAT aussies couldn't chase 100+ ???

frankly the worst match for me was the first test vs SA at Kanpur...very very boring...

 

[MWaugh]

i see i have touched on a delicate subject with an enourmous amount of subcontinent supporters following. ok i will grant you the fact that i have never been lucky enough to see a paki india match. HOWEVER whatever rivarlies exist between the two, i was merely stating that judging from the performances i have seen from the pakistan team from there recent series out here and in other matches outside of australia, that they cannot be used as a benchmark. now was for the topic of the fast bowlers, as for indias 2 spinners - granted - i rate kumble and singh as probably the 3rd and 4th best in the world - behind warne and murali ofcourse. but to say that their pace attack is great is going a bit far. like common they dont really match up with mcgrath, lee, gillespie and kasper. in the years since wasim akram and waqar younis left the game, the sub continent cannot lay claim to having 1 hugely successful and dominant face bowler in the game. we have 4!!!

as for the this pitch issue why does everyone bring up the 4th test. the pitch wasnt test status. 20 wickets in 2 days. wether australia won that last match or not it still would have been a shocker of a pitch. while whenever any non subcontinent team leaves to go to the subcontinent they are bombarded with these spinner friendly dust bowls, yet when india came here melbourne was the flattest and driest in more than a decade, sydney was more mumbai than oz. remember - ganguly asked the ground staff to prepare it especially for his spinners.

and sachin as for your theory that no one should make more than 100 except western australia at the WACA new zealand did well there 2 tours ago, south africa likewise. the windies enjoyed in a few years ago and the waugh brothers once made a stand of over 400 there. thats about 6 times more than pakistan. and that was just the twins

 

[SaiSrini]

as for the this pitch issue why does everyone bring up the 4th test. the pitch wasnt test status. 20 wickets in 2 days. wether australia won that last match or not it still would have been a shocker of a pitch. while whenever any non subcontinent team leaves to go to the subcontinent they are bombarded with these spinner friendly dust bowls, yet when india came here melbourne was the flattest and driest in more than a decade, sydney was more mumbai than oz. remember - ganguly asked the ground staff to prepare it especially for his spinners.

and sachin as for your theory that no one should make more than 100 except western australia at the WACA new zealand did well there 2 tours ago, south africa likewise. the windies enjoyed in a few years ago and the waugh brothers once made a stand of over 400 there. thats about 6 times more than pakistan. and that was just the twins

A big joke MWaugh!!! Do you mean to imply that the Sydney groundsmen acceded to ganguly's request and made a pitch favoring spinners??? Or are you talking abt Mumbai?

Pakistan now have fallen down so much!! They used to be a pretty good team before. I think Bob Woolmer promised first but he has sicne then taken this team to lowest levels.

 

[MWaugh]

A big joke MWaugh!!! Do you mean to imply that the Sydney groundsmen acceded to ganguly's request and made a pitch favoring spinners??? Or are you talking abt Mumbai?

Pakistan now have fallen down so much!! They used to be a pretty good team before. I think Bob Woolmer promised first but he has sicne then taken this team to lowest levels.

nah definatly talking about mumbai. sydney didnt make it for anybody. they just created a dust bowl. and adelaide favoured the indians aswell. the only one that didnt was brisbane. brisbane always the same, favours the bowlers for first few sessions then free for everyone. thats excactly what im saying about pakistan. the way they are playing currently doesnt leave them to be any benchmark. compare teams to australia and england. those constantly competing at the highest level successfully

 

[sachinisgod]

dude Mumbai may have been a minefield but the fact is that the Indian top order knew it better how to play on it than their aussie counterparts...perhaps even gillespie knew it better...u can give that pitch to a fit sachin and rahul any no of times and they'll keep outperforming the aussie top order...

and i disagree abt comparing teams to england...wait till they play the ashes, wait till they tour Pakistan (if kaneria is fit and fine, they are in for big time trouble)...the only benchmark in modern cricket is Aussies...and I think the ICC test rankings show this quite adequately...btw glad to know that aussies do recognize murali's prowess...

boring games - whenever NZ visit India, the result is boring cricket...frankly i have never seen a rivetting test match between these two countries ever...

 

[MWaugh]

that is what i have said from the outset. i said initially that you cant benchmark and indian form on a game against pakistan because they currently arent of a high enough status to base any result on. the team to beat for the past 7 or 8 years (ever since steve waugh took the reigns) has been australia. i merely said that india lack REAL quality pacemen. balaji may be going ok and ifran getting better but these players are so far away from the quality held in the australian ranks.
half of these comments appear to be just home country loyalty which is fair enough, im often the same. but you have to pay credit where it is due and weigh it up logically. for example ntini from south africa is up there with the australian fast bowlers as is harmison from england. you cant really put balagi and ifran up there with the likes of mcgrath and gillespie who have proven themselves time in and time out for the greater part of a decade.
as for the spinners i have a huge amount of respect for kumble, singh and of course murali. kaneria looks good aswell and hopefully hes head doesnt get to big, if he stays in control he will be better than saqlain.

as for the issue of the mumbai pitch. i dont believe that the wicket is like that every time they play. every pitch has its day and im sure it is generally a solid wicket. but this time it wasnt. however having said that EVERYBODY struggled on it. sachin batted ok on it but no batsman ever truely dominated.

while i revisit my issue one last time in this post, i have a great deal of respect for the indian batting lineup, they have a wealth of batting depth however they are somewhat voulnerable with sachin out. however the bowlers arent at the same level as australias AT THE MOMENT. one day mcgrath and co will retire but at the moment they are not at this level. the spinners are - maybe just a little behind warne and mcgill (our backup), but not the quicks. as for pakistan, once a mighty force but the performances recently against india cannot honestly be used as a form of benchmark as to the quality of the current indian test team.

i hope i havent upset anyone but this isnt just a home country belief. its just weighed up stats and analysis. sorry for the long post aswell