2023 ICC Cricket World Cup (October/November) - India

[icyman]

Afghanistan isn't a minnow. They are competitive without many wins against their name. Agreed they didn't win anything in 2019, but they came very very close to defeating Indian that day.

Traditionally poor starters-as we have seen their display vs Bangladesh, should improve with time. Feel they will take wins vs Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Netherlands with ease here. South Africa too is known for slip ups vs such countries. It might be interesting if they take a couple of points from that game/ vs Australia too.

 

[Bevab]

I would put it at a level equivalent to Bangladesh’s win over India in 2007. It was a major shock and not something you could have foreseen entirely but in hindsight when you look back at it you can understand why it happened and the shock value diminishes.

I still don’t think Afghanistan will be winning a lot more games. Against Netherlands I can see them winning and perhaps one of the Chennai games will go their way but they’re still heavily reliant on their openers.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[Skankhunt_42]

Today's match is a big one. Whoever loses will have an uphill task to hang on there. Lucknow might favor SL but they don't have bowlers. I see AUS triuphimg tonight unless they do the harakiri like SA game.

 

[icyman]

It is that time when he can conveniently say "Ohh, that day at Lords, there were 2 Champions. you can't really separate anyone there! So, we don't consider ourselves as World Champions. Hence, we aren't defending anything"

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Today's match is a big one. Whoever loses will have an uphill task to hang on there. Lucknow might favor SL but they don't have bowlers. I see AUS triuphimg tonight unless they do the harakiri like SA game.

I am expecting nothing from Sri Lanka. They are in complete disarray- add to that, the loss of Dasun Shanaka will hurt badly. Expect Sri Lanka to walk away with at max, a win (if lucky vs Netherlands). Australia should go through easily.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

In the cold light of day (although it's not light yet) it feels like England's hubris has contributed to their downfall. Apparently Stokes was fit but, they were either lying or felt like they could give him one more game because it's only Afghanistan. After beating Bangladesh batting first, in conditions that looked fine for batting, they do exactly what I feel like Afghanistan would want and bowl first. Then proceeded to bowl absolute rubbish (except Topley). The pulled them back before losing it again.
Letting Ikram Ali Khil score a 50 is criminal and the last four wickets put on almost 100.

Afghanistan were excellent in the field and getting themselves to what looked an above par score (England certainly made it look well above par). I really don't think calling them minnows is inaccurate. In 1996 a lot of people would have felt Sri Lanka were minnows and they won it. I don't think Afghanistan will win it because they only have one good batter. But, compared with England they are minnows in terms of finances, playing pool, resources in general and the fact they this is the team holding both limited overs titles vs one that had one ODI WC win to their name. They may have qualified automatically but they had a pretty easy set of matches (Series wins against Ireland, Netherlands, Bangladesh. A drawn series with Sri Lanka and a 0-3 defeat against Zimbabwe). I hope they pick up some more wins against bigger teams who can't avoid playing them - like India, Australia and Pakistan all decided to do so in the Super League.

Consolation is we lost to a minnow in the T20 World Cup and won it. However, don't see England only losing one more though. We have no chance against India and still have South Africa, Australia, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

Livingstone has bowled well so him as a fifth bowler is less concerning - although it's very risky - so we can drop Sam Curran. I love Woakes but he probably needs to go for the next match unless he has a great week in training. Feel like I'd just give Atkinson the new ball and hope South Africa have a collective bad day but I think if they do change it they may go for Willey.

No Jofra and never replacing Plunkett in the middle overs has really exposed the bowling. If anything happens to Adil Rashid they might as well just forfeit the rest of the matches and go home.

 

[Bevab]

The real concern for me is the small drop in batting quality. Morgan at four was a proper spin basher, Brook despite his knock yesterday is not. Livingstone doesn’t offer the same degree of assuredness at the crease Stokes did in 2019, I assume they expect Brook to step up and fill that role or for Stokes to come back in and do it.

Now that I think about it, getting Stokes in for Curran and then getting ten overs from Root/Livo/Stokes could be a plan. It does put a lot more pressure on the other four bowlers doing their jobs; can Woakes at present or Willey offer that?

 

[wasteyouryouth]

The real concern for me is the small drop in batting quality. Morgan at four was a proper spin basher, Brook despite his knock yesterday is not. Livingstone doesn’t offer the same degree of assuredness at the crease Stokes did in 2019, I assume they expect Brook to step up and fill that role or for Stokes to come back in and do it.

Now that I think about it, getting Stokes in for Curran and then getting ten overs from Root/Livo/Stokes could be a plan. It does put a lot more pressure on the other four bowlers doing their jobs; can Woakes at present or Willey offer that?

I'm assuming that Stokes is not bowling - particularly if it's his hip that has been causing him problems lately. That leaves the biggest hole. Particularly when Curran and Woakes don't look like they can bowl ten overs. You are banking on Livingstone and Root, which is fine on a spinning pitch, but I could see good players of spin hitting them out of the attack. Then we are left with Dawid Malan or Harry Brook's dibbly dobblers.

2019 had
Woakes
Archer
Plunkett
Rashid
Wood
Stokes
Root

50 overs with some another 10-15 if you need them.

2023 currently looks like - if we do bring Stokes in for Curran/Woakes
Topley
?
Rashid
Wood
Livingstone
Root

You've got 40 overs and a lot of hope. Feel like that'd be too risky. Although Livingstone is averaging 26 at 5.14 economy, so maybe they/we/me/I do need to show faith in him.

 

[Bevab]

I'm assuming that Stokes is not bowling - particularly if it's his hip that has been causing him problems lately. That leaves the biggest hole. Particularly when Curran and Woakes don't look like they can bowl ten overs. You are banking on Livingstone and Root, which is fine on a spinning pitch, but I could see good players of spin hitting them out of the attack. Then we are left with Dawid Malan or Harry Brook's dibbly dobblers.

2019 had
Woakes
Archer
Plunkett
Rashid
Wood
Stokes
Root

50 overs with some another 10-15 if you need them.

2023 currently looks like - if we do bring Stokes in for Curran/Woakes
Topley
?
Rashid
Wood
Livingstone
Root

You've got 40 overs and a lot of hope. Feel like that'd be too risky. Although Livingstone is averaging 26 at 5.14 economy, so maybe they/we/me/I do need to show faith in him.

The bowling unit does look weak when viewed in that manner. If Stokes is utterly incapable of even rolling his arm for three overs then his selection is really dubious (though it’ll still happen).

I believe there was a time around 2017-18 when they doubled down on batdeep and just ignored the bowling aspect of it for a while. They’ve got to do that now without necessarily having the same batting depth in the lower order. However they would have Livingstone at seven which is probably quite strong. I doubt it’ll lead to a successful title retention but it may just work in the short run.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

The bowling unit does look weak when viewed in that manner. If Stokes is utterly incapable of even rolling his arm for three overs then his selection is really dubious (though it’ll still happen).

I believe there was a time around 2017-18 when they doubled down on batdeep and just ignored the bowling aspect of it for a while. They’ve got to do that now without necessarily having the same batting depth in the lower order. However they would have Livingstone at seven which is probably quite strong. I doubt it’ll lead to a successful title retention but it may just work in the short run.

Think the expectation was always Stokes would come in for Brook, but Brook batted well, so it feels harsh to drop him. Might be the right choice though. Still then you are left with Livingstone at six which feels too high. I'd be tempted to just stick him in at 4 and leave Buttler and Stokes in familiar roles from 2019.

Moeen at 7 and Willey at 8 is the option which keeps both the batting depth and bowling options, but that doesn't necessarily feel like a stronger team unless you just assume that Curran and Woakes form will remain this bad.

Every option feels like it has a hole unless players pick up their form.

To be honest the campaign has felt very pre-2015 England, which is quite nostalgic.

 

[Pinch hitter]

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[wasteyouryouth]

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[Bevab]

Think the expectation was always Stokes would come in for Brook, but Brook batted well, so it feels harsh to drop him. Might be the right choice though. Still then you are left with Livingstone at six which feels too high. I'd be tempted to just stick him in at 4 and leave Buttler and Stokes in familiar roles from 2019.

Moeen at 7 and Willey at 8 is the option which keeps both the batting depth and bowling options, but that doesn't necessarily feel like a stronger team unless you just assume that Curran and Woakes form will remain this bad.

Every option feels like it has a hole unless players pick up their form.

To be honest the campaign has felt very pre-2015 England, which is quite nostalgic.

I’ve never been a fan of Mo in ODIs as he’s just felt too much of a no-rounder in this format. Livingstone at four to be the spin basher is an interesting idea. What if Mo bats there instead to do the same role?

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I’ve never been a fan of Mo in ODIs as he’s just felt too much of a no-rounder in this format. Livingstone at four to be the spin basher is an interesting idea. What if Mo bats there instead to do the same role?

Could be an option. I did feel like Moeen in the team yesterday would have made sense with all their spinners. He generally performs how he's expected to. Bat him at 8 and he usually plays like a number 8. Played really well when he went up to three in the Ashes. Livingstone or Moeen at 4, with a bit more time but less pressure if things go wrong feels somewhat safer. Stokes at 5 or 6 allows others to bat around him, he can bat with the tail well and manage a chase. Buttler in the floating role coming in with 25-30 overs left works feels like you get the most from him.

The fact these are issues still up for debate three games into the tournament is why it feels like a shit show.

 

[asprin]

I’ve never been a fan of Mo in ODIs as he’s just felt too much of a no-rounder in this format

I did feel like Moeen in the team yesterday would have made sense with all their spinners

I've a soft spot for Mo but even I feel he is not best suited for ODIs now (maybe earlier he was good but appears like he is past his "sell by" date). T20 is his strength where he can blast from the word go and is also a handy spinner who often ends up a picking a wicket or two as batsmen tend to go after him.
Tests are also okay but he no longer plays the format so what can you do?