2023 ICC Cricket World Cup (October/November) - India

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

So, I was going through all of India's 8 matches so far and out of all 8, 7 matches were one sided. There was 1 match that was not one sided despite India winning it and that was against...... New Zealand. Shami took 5 wickets but Kuldeep was hammered around the park, Mitchell scored 130 and we lost 5 wickets under 200 runs.

India against New Zealand is not at all a good record even though we just changed that and I am super concerned about that match. You never know which NZ is going to show up. I would say on a Wankhade track where the team batting first has scored excess of 350 except Afghanistan who scored 291, this is going to be a win the toss and win the match scenario unless someone playes a Maxwell kind of innings.,

Look at the score

Match 1 - 399/7 & 170 all out
Match 2 - 382/5 & 233 all out
Match 3 - 357/8 & 55 all out
Match 4 - 291/5 & 293/7

ALl the matches were won by batting first and Afghanistan came so close to keep that up. If they had some more experience under their belt, better field placements they would have won that against Australia.

Ominous signs for India. The only thing in their favor is New Zealand has not played on this surface, India has.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Ominous signs for India. The only thing in their favor is New Zealand has not played on this surface, India has.

 

[icyman]

Temba injured. Very good for SA. He wasn't contributing anyway and Markram is a far better captain anyday. SA might actually win from here.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Say Jhah to the rescue. It should rain as the team with most points will go to the finals!

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Speaking of Afghanistan, there was a good section on Wisden podcast this week where Phil Walker talked about an interview Mel Farrell did with Trott recently. Worth a watch to understand just how great their transformation is. In the last 12-18 months they look a much improved team, the results and performances at the World Cup has been a huge example of that.

 

[noducksallowed]

Jansen, Jadeja are in the conversation. Maybe Maxwell, with his 5 wickets at 52. I'd say Jansen wins over Omarzai so far in the tournament

Jansen has been top dog so far imo.

I also agree with one of the members that head to head should be taken above NRR, in fact I'm not even sure why the latter is relevant if we need to decide which team deserves it if they are equal on points.

Btw funny how this year 4h and 5th will be an almost repeat of the 2019 tournament if Pak win Saturday, as will the h2h.

Pakistan again had a poor first half of the tournament and couldnt get their combination right.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Jansen has been top dog so far imo.

I also agree with one of the members that head to head should be taken above NRR, in fact I'm not even sure why the latter is relevant if we need to decide which team deserves it if they are equal on points.

Btw funny how this year 4h and 5th will be an almost repeat of the 2019 tournament if Pak win Saturday, as will the h2h.

Pakistan again had a poor first half of the tournament and couldnt get their combination right.

Nope, Head 2 Head should only be considered if everything is same like Points and NRR. Why should a team suffer based on head to head while they have been better in terms of how they have played AKA NRR. Next people will say lets award world cups on Boundary Count... wait..

 

[CerealKiller]

Nope, Head 2 Head should only be considered if everything is same like Points and NRR. Why should a team suffer based on head to head while they have been better in terms of how they have played AKA NRR. Next people will say lets award world cups on Boundary Count... wait..

Yeah honestly i agree, NRR shows dominance throughout the tournament.
Was just pointing out the irony of Pakistani being eliminated at the expense of a team they beat, both in 2019 and 2023. But the reason is that we don't dominate against weaker teams.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Nope, Head 2 Head should only be considered if everything is same like Points and NRR. Why should a team suffer based on head to head while they have been better in terms of how they have played AKA NRR. Next people will say lets award world cups on Boundary Count... wait..

I actually think boundary count - or boundary difference - would be much better than NRR. Number of boundaries scored vs boundaries conceded.

NRR gives you these instances where a team can end up batting to protect their NRR after a bad start in a match that effectively over. It's boring. How is it a good advert for cricket to watch a couple of bowlers nudge and nurdle it around for 15 overs?

If you're seven down with 25 overs left and can still at least get something out of the game by hitting boundaries it's going to be far better for the entertainment value.

That being said, if two teams are tied for points, Head to Head should be the difference maker. If you're trying to judge who is the best team between the two, surely the match they played is the best evidence you can get?

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Yeah honestly i agree, NRR shows dominance throughout the tournament.
Was just pointing out the irony of Pakistani being eliminated at the expense of a team they beat, both in 2019 and 2023. But the reason is that we don't dominate against weaker teams.

Yup, New Zealand do that well. They hammer weaker opponents. MSD would always keep an eye on NRR as he knew it was crucial at the end of the day. The Afghanistan game definitely screwed Pakistan big time or else they would not be in this situation.

 

[icyman]

MSD would always keep an eye on NRR as he knew it was crucial at the end of the day.

Maybe in the initial part of his career. Please dont talk about MSD and positive NRR circa CWC 2019.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I actually think boundary count - or boundary difference - would be much better than NRR. Number of boundaries scored vs boundaries conceded.

NRR gives you these instances where a team can end up batting to protect their NRR after a bad start in a match that effectively over. It's boring. How is it a good advert for cricket to watch a couple of bowlers nudge and nurdle it around for 15 overs?

If you're seven down with 25 overs left and can still at least get something out of the game by hitting boundaries it's going to be far better for the entertainment value.

That being said, if two teams are tied for points, Head to Head should be the difference maker. If you're trying to judge who is the best team between the two, surely the match they played is the best evidence you can get?

Why just boundary count? Why not wickets taken? Why give Batsman every time orgasm, let bowlers have some orgasm as well!

On the last point, unfortunately I do not agree. Head to Head only when points and another factor are out of picture and are same. What would happen if Afghanistan wins today?

New Zealand lost to Pakistan who lost to Afghanistan who lost to New Zealand. This is the reason Head to Head makes little to no sense as the first option.

Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2023

Maybe in the initial part of his career. Please dont talk about MSD and positive NRR circa CWC 2019.

He was not the captain in 2019 WC. Also India did not need NRR to come into equation. We topped the group back in 2019 as well.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Why just boundary count? Why not wickets taken? Why give Batsman every time orgasm, let bowlers have some orgasm as well!

On the last point, unfortunately I do not agree. Head to Head only when points and another factor are out of picture and are same. What would happen if Afghanistan wins today?

New Zealand lost to Pakistan who lost to Afghanistan who lost to New Zealand. This is the reason Head to Head makes little to no sense as the first option.

Post automatically merged: Nov 10, 2023

He was not the captain in 2019 WC. Also India did not need NRR to come into equation. We topped the group back in 2019 as well.

I don't think it's fair for a team that you have beaten to qualify ahead of you when you have the same points. It's supposed to be a cup, individual matches should take relevance.

If you have three teams tied then you go to a second tie-breaker. It's not as complicated as people seem to think.

You could use Runs per Wicket Ratio. But I think that could have similar issues in limited overs that I think there are with NRR.

It won't matter if England beat Pakistan anyway.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I don't think it's fair for a team that you have beaten to qualify ahead of you when you have the same points. It's supposed to be a cup, individual matches should take relevance.

If you have three teams tied then you go to a second tie-breaker. It's not as complicated as people seem to think.

You could use Runs per Wicket Ratio. But I think that could have similar issues in limited overs that I think there are with NRR.

It won't matter if England beat Pakistan anyway.

So it is fair that the other team have played superb cricket if not for that 1 game? We can make an argument that if India goes on to win 9/9, why play Semi's and Finals, just hand them the cup as its not fair to not give them the cup despite beating all the opponents?

All I feel is head to head is a great tool but teams on same points need to be differentiated based on how they have played overall against all teams because as you said it is supposed to be a cup. Also all Pakistani fans please tell me, if it was not a rain curtailed game, do you think you could have chased 400? What happens in that scenario of rain curtailed matches for head to head? Not fair that one team scored 400 runs and other team could win it because rain curtailed to half the match and they were "AHEAD".