2023 ICC Cricket World Cup (October/November) - India

[icyman]

Rohit Sharma seemed to me the best possible opportunity to reverse the trend, but sadly the team let him down on Sunday.

True!

-> The team was top heavy on batting, reminding me much of like teams in the 1990s and 2000s when, if you lost three wickets early (and especially Tendulkar), you were basically in a hole. Under Dhoni, we seemed to have more allrounders and batting up to 8 and even 9 sometimes. Dhoni himself carried the lower middle order, giving room for really fearless cricket by the top and middle order batsmen.

The top heavy batting has been the case since a long time. As I mention below, 2011 was different, but the story started from 2015- once you lost Rohit, Dhawan, there was no one who be relied upon, including MSD himself.

As fo the AR strategy, only the 2011 team was well balanced and defined. By 2015, we had made a mess of the strategy. Ashwin wasn't a proper AR nor was Stuart Binny. 2011 stands out cause of Yuvraj and Raina (to an extent Yusuf) . Dhoni's fearlessness had disappeared in the editions post 2011 tbh

-> This was probably the best team likely to win a world cup for some time, and we may not get as close as this for the next few world cups.

It didn't seem so at the start of the Cup, however, we played incredibly and that brought everyone's hopes up. We might never have a run like this in the World Cup- even 2003 was a blip-the run was magnificent. 2011 was more measured and balanced. This was on par with Australia 2003/2007.

Future World Cups- I might take a back seat now, just like @SaiSrini . This team has disappointed me far too many times. Have no doubt that we will make the semis in 2024, 26 and 27, but winning is a different ball game( sorry for being negative ,despite having the knowledge that we have players like Jaiswal and Dhull waiting in the wings)

 

[SkyBlue]

Honestly, I keep reading that this is the best Indian team ever. Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves?

I think this is the weakest International cricket has ever been. Look at the state of Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Teams you expect to play well in subcontinent conditions but their cricket boards are in disarray.

An England team who've pretty much sidelined ODI cricket and are more focused on other formats.

An SA team who weren't a fancied team before the tournament, same with NZ.

It was just Australia and their winning pedigree in world cups that was the only threat.

Was this the best chance for India to win a WC? Yes but far from the best team India has ever produced. Let's not forget this same group of players have choked in high pressure games for almost a decade now.

Still a far cry from the 2011 team and the competition they were up against.

 

[Bevab]

Honestly, I keep reading that this is the best Indian team ever. Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves?

I think this is the weakest International cricket has ever been. Look at the state of Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Teams you expect to play well in subcontinent conditions but their cricket boards are in disarray.

An England team who've pretty much sidelined ODI cricket and are more focused on other formats.

An SA team who weren't a fancied team before the tournament, same with NZ.

It was just Australia and their winning pedigree in world cups that was the only threat.

Was this the best chance for India to win a WC? Yes but far from the best team India has ever produced. Let's not forget this same group of players have choked in high pressure games for almost a decade now.

Still a far cry from the 2011 team and the competition they were up against.

England were notably worse and outdated in 2011 compared to now as an ODI side, NZ were likewise not as good despite achieving a similar result in the end, Australia were a strong side on reputation but that was their side coming to the end of a cycle (a bit similar to now but this side is stronger again), Pakistan now were the number one side heading into it.

Bangladesh today are much better than the 2011 version and I’d take Afghanistan of today over the West Indian side in 2011 without looking at what the latter did because I don’t remember. South Africa and Sri Lanka were the only sides better then in this comparison.

This is nostalgia talking unfortunately.

 

[SkyBlue]

Also for as good as Kohli has been in ODI's, I'll be really disappointed if he plays the T20 WC next year.

If we continue with this same strategy of batting around Kohli in a much shorter format, we're pretty much doomed tbh.

But given that it's in USA and given the pressure of advertising and revenue generating, of course he's going to be there.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

First four minutes of The Grade Cricketer today is superb

 

[Bevab]

First four minutes of The Grade Cricketer today is superb

Have to imagine they’re rightfully very smug about it.

 

[SkyBlue]

England were notably worse and outdated in 2011 compared to now as an ODI side, NZ were likewise not as good despite achieving a similar result in the end, Australia were a strong side on reputation but that was their side coming to the end of a cycle (a bit similar to now but this side is stronger again), Pakistan now were the number one side heading into it.

Bangladesh today are much better than the 2011 version and I’d take Afghanistan of today over the West Indian side in 2011 without looking at what the latter did because I don’t remember. South Africa and Sri Lanka were the only sides better then in this comparison.

This is nostalgia talking unfortunately.

I'm not sure it's nostalgia entirely. I most definitely wouldn't pick this middle order of Iyer, Rahul and Sky over Yuvi, Dhoni and Raina. Big match big temperament players. Not to mention we had a 6th and 7th bowling option in the form of Yuvi and Raina while the current team has none. Balance of the side in 2011 was much better than the current team.

And as far as competition goes, Pakistan of 2011 with their match winning spinners is better than their so called #1 team of 2023. A ranking achieved by beating minnows and under-strength New Zealand and Australian teams.

The only improvement from 2011 is the England team but their players gave up before the world cup even started.

I just feel 2011 had better competition but that's just me.

For as good as India have been in this WC, their weaknesses were badly exposed on the most important day. Lack of all-rounders, lack of a lower middle order which means the top 4 have to play safe and preserve their wicket resulting in under par scores. No part-time bowling options as well

 

[Till Valhalla]

I would have picked Vihari over SkY.

Post automatically merged: Nov 20, 2023

I would have picked Vihari over SkY.

No hidden bias

 

[Bevab]

I'm not sure it's nostalgia entirely. I most definitely wouldn't pick this middle order of Iyer, Rahul and Sky over Yuvi, Dhoni and Raina. Big match big temperament players. Not to mention we had a 6th and 7th bowling option in the form of Yuvi and Raina while the current team has none. Balance of the side in 2011 was much better than the current team.

And as far as competition goes, Pakistan of 2011 with their match winning spinners is better than their so called #1 team of 2023. A ranking achieved by beating minnows and under-strength New Zealand and Australian teams.

The only improvement from 2011 is the England team but their players gave up before the world cup even started.

I just feel 2011 had better competition but that's just me.

For as good as India have been in this WC, their weaknesses were badly exposed on the most important day. Lack of all-rounders, lack of a lower middle order which means the top 4 have to play safe and preserve their wicket resulting in under par scores. No part-time bowling options as well

It is subjective on the level of competition which is why I’m not putting 2023 or 2011 over one another here. Pakistan of 2011 would kill to have batters of Babar, Zaman and Rizwan’s quality… even Shafique and Shakeel walk into their XIs. I’d take their current pace attack over the 2011 version too. The spin department was where the 2011 side has a clear edge. I’d also say this team is much better at fielding.

England’s campaign was marred by braindead strategies thanks to Jos and partly lack of prep as you’ve mentioned, this 2023 side blows the 2011 team out of the water otherwise.

If we’re doing a direct comparison of the 2011 and 2023 Indian teams which wasn’t my original intention then 2011 would edge it out because they did end up winning the tournament. Shreyas did score a century in the semis and Rahul did save us in the group stage against the same team so I’m not entirely sure they deserve to be knocked down for lacking big game temperament. No complaints about SKY being pointless or the terrible balance of this side, I’ve been crying about it for eons now. I don’t think a bunch of part-timers are the way to go about solving the problem but I’ll save the longer post for the Indian team thread.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Have to imagine they’re rightfully very smug about it.

Of course.

Some good analysis too. Critical of usage of Siraj.

 

[Bevab]

Of course.

Some good analysis too. Critical of usage of Siraj.

I’ll have to give it a watch over lunch.

The Siraj usage was pointed out by so many people watching the game too. Just a bizarre thing all around.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[SkyBlue]

It is subjective on the level of competition which is why I’m not putting 2023 or 2011 over one another here. Pakistan of 2011 would kill to have batters of Babar, Zaman and Rizwan’s quality… even Shafique and Shakeel walk into their XIs. I’d take their current pace attack over the 2011 version too. The spin department was where the 2011 side has a clear edge. I’d also say this team is much better at fielding.

England’s campaign was marred by braindead strategies thanks to Jos and partly lack of prep as you’ve mentioned, this 2023 side blows the 2011 team out of the water otherwise.

If we’re doing a direct comparison of the 2011 and 2023 Indian teams which wasn’t my original intention then 2011 would edge it out because they did end up winning the tournament. Shreyas did score a century in the semis and Rahul did save us in the group stage against the same team so I’m not entirely sure they deserve to be knocked down for lacking big game temperament. No complaints about SKY being pointless or the terrible balance of this side, I’ve been crying about it for eons now. I don’t think a bunch of part-timers are the way to go about solving the problem but I’ll save the longer post for the Indian team thread.

Fair enough but talking on the point of part-timers, I believe you definitely need to have that surprise element in your team. Bowlers that batters would likely go after which many a times results in a wicket.

Glen Philips for NZ for example. Travis Head for Australia. I would've put Maxwell in this category as well before this WC, where obviously he evolved into more than just a part-time spinner.

You just cannot have a team of batsmen who can bat and bowlers who can bowl. Too much over-reliance on Hardik Pandya as well.

Look at our reserve players as well. Either specialist batsmen or bowlers. This includes those who didn't make the cut.

You pour billions into grassroots cricket and it's pretty embarrassing when a country like ours still have players tuned to focus on one particular skillset.

 

[SkyBlue]

Also felt Australia cashed in on their post Ponting Era 'golden generation' big time.

2 ODI World Cups, one T20 WC and keeping the Ashes in Australia in between England's 'golden era' lol

Warner, Smith, Maxwell, Starc, probably Marsh and Hazelwood as well won't be there in 4 years time.

Inb4 they win the T20 WC next year too.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Feel sad for the team but this is what happens when administrators poke their noses in sporting matters. One of the worst pitches in a WC final where it all came down to the toss of a coin. This final should never have been first of all at this ground and after the farce that was the IPL final, this is now the second nail in the coffin.