Asif and Akhtar Positive for doping!

[Gunner786]

i forgot to mention greg rudswhatever his name is

we didnt see a big thing made out of that did we,

maybe asif and shoaib should change their colour to get preferance,

but frankly they shouldnt,

it doesnt matter what the western media make of it

 

[Stephen Bailey]

i forgot to mention greg rudswhatever his name is

we didnt see a big thing made out of that did we,

maybe asif and shoaib should change their colour to get preferance,

but frankly they shouldnt,

it doesnt matter what the western media make of it

Ahhhhh! So it's racism now! Stop talking crap. Why the hell have they got away with this when other sportsmen, who also claim to have not known they had taken PHD's, who are not from Asia, get bans?

I find it laughable that you think racism is involved in peoples opinions. If you take drugs you have to be punished. I really couldn't care less if the person is black, white, Asian or whatever!

 

[puddleduck]

I wouldn't bother Stevie, there are some people in this thread who seem quite incapable of using any form of sensible logic or reasoning.

"What about Warne?" they keep shouting, and despite being constantly told that Warne actually served his time despite only testing positive for a lesser drug they are incapable of seeing anything other than their own bias.

There are some seriously twisted people in this thread, and I seriously suggest you find a bottle of ketchup and get rid of that rather massive fried sliced potato from your shoulder.

Currently they are being let off because the PCB regulations seem to state that if they as a board don't inform the players correctly then the player is not at fault and therefore can't be asked to take responsibility. So the question is who does take responsibility? The PCB won't, the players won't so it really does all work out far too conviently for them. They were able to hide their two premier quick bowlers from official ICC testing in the champions trophy, and have conviently been able to clear them via a loophole.

End of the day, if the players aren't to blame, then the PCB must be to blame, and if the PCB is guilty of drug cheating, then why not ban them as a whole? Responsibility must be taken somewhere along the lines, and I feel the ICC must take strong steps to ensure that they do not become such a joke that any influence they still believe they have is finally erradicated. Obviously I don't want to see Pakistan banned from International Cricket, and it should just be those two players, but I am pretty sure that all that will happen is the team doctor or someone similar will get the sack as the scapecoat, and the matter will be firmly swept under the carpet.

 

[Gunner786]

well after all this

i have only 1 thing left to say

truth is shoaib and asif are cleared and theres not a thing anyone can do about it no matter how hard they try

 

[apesnani]

I wouldn't bother Stevie, there are some people in this thread who seem quite incapable of using any form of sensible logic or reasoning.

"What about Warne?" they keep shouting, and despite being constantly told that Warne actually served his time despite only testing positive for a lesser drug they are incapable of seeing anything other than their own bias.

There are some seriously twisted people in this thread, and I seriously suggest you find a bottle of ketchup and get rid of that rather massive fried sliced potato from your shoulder.

Currently they are being let off because the PCB regulations seem to state that if they as a board don't inform the players correctly then the player is not at fault and therefore can't be asked to take responsibility. So the question is who does take responsibility? The PCB won't, the players won't so it really does all work out far too conviently for them. They were able to hide their two premier quick bowlers from official ICC testing in the champions trophy, and have conviently been able to clear them via a loophole.

End of the day, if the players aren't to blame, then the PCB must be to blame, and if the PCB is guilty of drug cheating, then why not ban them as a whole? Responsibility must be taken somewhere along the lines, and I feel the ICC must take strong steps to ensure that they do not become such a joke that any influence they still believe they have is finally erradicated. Obviously I don't want to see Pakistan banned from International Cricket, and it should just be those two players, but I am pretty sure that all that will happen is the team doctor or someone similar will get the sack as the scapecoat, and the matter will be firmly swept under the carpet.

Being a Pakistan I agree with you 100% that someone should be blamed for this fiasco , but you have to understand you cannot compare Shane Warne to lets say Mohammad Asif. One is uneducated, can barely read English , the other goes through a system which makes them understand fully the drug policies etc. its unfair to say Asif will have the same knowledge as Warne. As far as who is resposible this might answer your questions:

The Pakistan Cricket Team Physiotherapist, Darryn Lifson stated before the ADC that "Prior to the team going on the England tour, in about August 2004 [date is apparently incorrectly recorded], at a practice session in the Gaddafi Stadium, Dr. Sohail Saleem handed over to me WADA publications 'the Athlete Guide' and '2006 Prohibited List' and asked me to distribute the same to the players. I told the players that they should take a copy of these publications and study them...I cannot remember whether Shoaib Akhtar or Muhammad Asif were present at that time and took their copies" (emphasis is ours). Darryn Lifson conceded that "I have myself not given any formal lecture to the players about the drugs or the Anti Doping Regulations. It is within the scope of my duties to advise them about drugs and the Anti Doping Regulations.

Pakistan hired this guy to do the job of letting the players know what is wrong for the very reason that most Pakistani players donot have the required skills to understand the WADA documents and that is why PCB Anti Doping rule states the "extreme circumstances clause". If this guy would have told both the players what was wrong no way in hell they would get a ban of less then two years.


PLease anyone before jumping to conclusions read the complete report at:

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/271320.html

 

[sohum]

I have to embrace puddleduck's viewpoint. I think it sounds pretty believable and perhaps even a little too perfect.

From what I understand the PCB were following their own rules--however lax they were. The ICC has to deal out some form of punishment to the PCB in that regard because their rules were not in line with the ICC. Surely there must be some clause as a member nation to follow the guidelines set by the ICC?

As for parallels drawn with other sports, it's not worthy of comparison. There is far more money in football and perhaps even in tennis, than there is in cricket. There is a lot more at stake. And I would also estimate that there is a lot more stress on physical fitness in other sports. So it is understandable that other sports deal with drug-use more actively and strictly than cricket. Whether this is right or wrong is based largely on opinion.

In the end, I think the whole incident will result in just one thing: confirmation of the fact that the ICC are a bunch of tools.

 

[Kal-El]

to lets say Mohammad Asif. One is uneducated, can barely read English , the other goes through a system which makes them understand fully the drug policies etc. its unfair to say Asif will have the same knowledge as Warne.

Ah, I see. So if we play someone who's illiterate, he can pump himself full of steroids and get away with it? Intriguing...

 

[apesnani]

Ah, I see. So if we play someone who's illiterate, he can pump himself full of steroids and get away with it? Intriguing...

Read my complete response rather then taking the half of it. My point was that is why the PCB hired someon to educate these guys, but that person did not do their job.

 

[puddleduck]

but you have to understand you cannot compare Shane Warne to lets say Mohammad Asif.

I wasn't, it was the initial backlash from agrieved fans such as myself which bought a response from a few posters who spouted rubbish like -

"i dont think anyone here has a right to judge them

where were you all when shane warne got off lightly even though his case was much worse than these 2"

Was merely pointing out to people who post that sort of rubbish that the reason there was no complaints there was that Warne did actually get punished!

Also apesnani, it seems to me that what I was saying is proving spot on in that the PCB are now coming up with a scapegoat, he'll get the sack and the two players will resume their careers and the ICC will do nothing. We have to wait until Speed returns from Uganda it seems for any comment from them.

 

[apesnani]

I wasn't, it was the initial backlash from agrieved fans such as myself which bought a response from a few posters who spouted rubbish like -

"i dont think anyone here has a right to judge them

where were you all when shane warne got off lightly even though his case was much worse than these 2"

Was merely pointing out to people who post that sort of rubbish that the reason there was no complaints there was that Warne did actually get punished!

Also apesnani, it seems to me that what I was saying is proving spot on in that the PCB are now coming up with a scapegoat, he'll get the sack and the two players will resume their careers and the ICC will do nothing. We have to wait until Speed returns from Uganda it seems for any comment from them.

I agree with you, if Mohd Asif and Akhtar were Aussies both of them would have been banned for two years now, the reason being Aussie have educated their players well on the doping policy.

My thought is that you cannot ban two players when is is the PCB at fault. Also I think everyone is missing the big picture , if PCB is at fault then the biggest party to blame for all of ICC.

Reason being if ICC all about the WADA then it should ensure that the national boards are doing their job on training the players about WADA. For example before you play a game for your country the physio should tell you about the doping code.

ICC has given countries 4 years to comply with the WADA code, now how does that work. I think it should be an immediate thing with ICC setting up a committee that ensures all memebr countries are making sure that thier players know about all this.

If ICC had done this then Asif and Akhtar would have no case, but like I said its wrong to ban two players when someone else is not doing the job.

 

[brad352]

My thought is that you cannot ban two players when is is the PCB at fault.

Of course you can

"If a cricketer establishes in an individual case involving an anti-doping code violation under clause 3.1 (presence of prohibited substance or its metabolites or markers) or use of a prohibited substance or prohibited method under clause 3.2 he bears no significant fault or negligence, then the period of ineligibility may be reduced, but subject to clause 9.5.3 the reduced period of ineligibility may not be less than one-half of the minimum period of ineligibility otherwise applicable."

maybe asif and shoaib should change their colour to get preferance,

but frankly they shouldnt,

it doesnt matter what the western media make of it

And when logical debate fails, we play the race card!

 

[puddleduck]

My thought is that you cannot ban two players when is is the PCB at fault. Also I think everyone is missing the big picture , if PCB is at fault then the biggest party to blame for all of ICC.

Reason being if ICC all about the WADA then it should ensure that the national boards are doing their job on training the players about WADA. For example before you play a game for your country the physio should tell you about the doping code.

Can you imagine the uproar if the ICC started telling countries boards how to run themselves? It is not their job to do that, they are a governing body, and they have rules in place. They are not there to molly-coddle and mother the international boards that are paying people more than comfortably to do the job you claim the ICC should be doing for them.

 

[apesnani]

Can you imagine the uproar if the ICC started telling countries boards how to run themselves? It is not their job to do that, they are a governing body, and they have rules in place. They are not there to molly-coddle and mother the international boards that are paying people more than comfortably to do the job you claim the ICC should be doing for them.

If they can setup a committee to insure that Match Fixing is under control , why cant they setup a committee that does routine checks to make sure that the member boards are educating their players according to the WADA standards. I dont think its asking for too much.

Of course you can


This is for Brad

ICC Dopring code clause in the introductory (background) section: "It shall be the responsibility of all members who compete in ICC events to ensure that all cricketers who wish to participate in ICC events are aware of this anti-doping code."

Its the PCB , and once again fro you ICC doping code does not apply to this case, when will you understand that.

 

[Andrew G]

What's with all this ban-lifting lately... Due the crime, pay the time.
Just because a player didn't know is not an excuse, as an international
cricketer it is their duty to know the rules and to distance themselves
from situations that may get them in trouble.

I can't wait for these two players to come to Australia.
We're going to taunt them more then anyone before them,
and the best thing is, they know we will do just that,
so I won't be suprised if those players are a no-show.
Murali got it bad, Akhtar's gonna get it even worse.

And I was a Shoaib Akhtar fan... not anymore!

 

[apesnani]

My Question to all those comparing Shane Warne to this case

Did Shane Warne ever appeal against his ban ??

If he did not , not please donot compare him anymore , because him not appealing speaks a lot on how confident he was of having the case overturned.