Australian ODI tour of the United Kingdom and Ireland, June-July 2010

[TumTum]

Tait bowled on about 90mph on the last over, get him on when the new ball is taken IMO.

And Steven Smith earned a promotion to field at backward point

 

[Themer]

Certainly a good XI Dan but I think I'd stay clear of using Davies as a pure batsmen simply because in my opinion his batting isn't as good as Kieswetter's and his keeping is better. And because Kieswetter hasn't done much wrong albeit he struggled in this series I'd persevere with him.

Rather than Davies I'd probably bring in Trott or Bell primarily because they have both shown very good form in domestic one dayers of late and slot them in at 3; leaving Strauss to open.

I was going to say that I probably wouldn't have Shahzad in the team but after looking at his OD stats he's got a very decent record so he's worth a shot as a replacement for Bresnan who looks well short of International quality.

 

[King Pietersen]

I have to disagree as far as Kieswetter > Davies with the bat. In the last 3 years Steven Davies has been one of the best OD batsmen in the country, and has been striking at over 100 each of those years. He scores quickly, he's good against pace, very good against spin and one thing he offers that Kieswetter doesn't is his ability to rotate the strike, which is something Kieswetter has really struggled with in International cricket. I like Craig a lot, and want to see him given a decent run in the side, but Davies has been undoubtedly the better batsman in the last few years, and Kieswetter only really got in because he was in the right place at the right time. Playing Davies, Kieswetter and Strauss gives us more depth in the batting, a more aggressive opening pair and allows the out of form Pietersen to move down the order slightly.

As for Trott vs Bell. If I was going to bring either of them in at this stage it'd be Bell. The next World Cup is in the Subcontinent, so ability against spin bowling is vital. Bell is one of the best players of spin in England, and has gone back to Warwickshire and worked very hard on his One Day game to increase his scoring rate. Trott continues to look poor against spin in one day cricket. He struggles to rotate the strike, scores too slowly and doesn't appear to have a consistent boundary option. He doesn't play the powerful sweeps, he doesn't have a reverse sweep and I've never seen him skip down the track to a spinner. Kieswetter, Davies and Bell have all shown an ability to score quickly against spin, and look a lot better against spin. It'd be a massive risk playing Trott up the order in ODi's in the subcontinent I think.

Here are Davies' List A stats in the last 3 seasons FTR:

2008: 689 runs at 49.21 with a strike rate of 112.39
2009: 658 runs at 50.61 with a strike rate of 117.50
2010: 222 runs at 111.00 with a strike rate of 132.93

Hell of a player.

 

[Themer]

Must admit that I'm rather suprised about those stats on the issues of whether Davies is better than Kieswetter batting. Davies could definetly do the job you specified then.

I'd still us rather stick with Kieswetter and Strauss though bringing in Bell.

 

[Ollie_H]

Even though we've won the series it's clear that changes do have to be made, but who do we bring in?

Dan, I think you have absolutely fantastic knowledge of cricket, but the one major problem I have is that you always want to make changes! We have just come off the back of a fantastic ODI series, an excellent T20 Win and a great series win against the Aussies. With possibly two more ODI series wins to come vs Pakistan and Bangla.

We really don't need all this change that you always seem to want, the team we have at the moment is perfectly set and clearly very well balanced. Please stop banging on about changes.

 

[Themer]

Fraid to disagree with you Ollie but its quite clear that at a minimum Bresnan has to be replaced. The rest of the squad you could arguably say should be kept.

 

[Ollie_H]

Okay at a push, I could agree with Bresnan needing a possible replacement, but there is no way we need to start making changes to anyone else in the side.

 

[King Pietersen]

Not moving forward and not looking to develop the team is what will cause us to fall behind the rest of the world. We may have won this series, but some clear problem areas have become evident in the last few games. We were saved by Bresnan after collapsing to Smith in 1 game, and then were outplayed in all areas in the last 2 once the Aussies started playing properly. Ultimately, we beat an undercooked Australia, we shouldn't instantly presume the team is perfect and not look to change the areas where there are clear deficiencies.

Tim Bresnan has to make way. He saved us with the bat in 1 game but that's pretty much his only contribution in the series. He was terrible with the ball, not particularly accurate, didn't get a great deal of movement and was not at all threatening. The fact Luke Wright took more wickets than him proves that he's not good enough. I'm not convinced Luke Wright is good enough either. The balance of the side might have worked in the World T20, but the poor lower order wasn't exposed in a 20 over innings. In 50 overs chasing scores of 270+ you need your numbers 6 and 7 to be able to contribute consistently. I don't think having Wright at 6 and Yardy/Bresnan at 7 is good enough to compete, and proves that we need that extra batsman in the side. That's only 2 changes, an extra batsman, and a change to the bowling line-up, they're not major changes at all, and I believe they're changes that need to be made. The personnel are interchangable; I'd like to go with Davies, but Bell could do a job and in England Trott could do a job, but if we're going to win the World Cup we cannot afford to have Luke Wright at 6.

If you stuck with your view of not making any changes, then Michael Lumb would retain his place in the T20i side, which would be a laughable selection. Lumb didn't do enough in the World T20, was terrible for Hampshire and has since been dropped. Therefore, changes will need to be made ahead of the next T20i, and again my choice would be Davies. Failure to move forward and develop the side will result in losses and poor performances. I therefore feel we need to make changes if we're going to continue to improve and win games of cricket. We performed decently in this series, but we've still got a long way to go if we're going to win the World Cup.

 

[Ollie_H]

All you ever seem to want to do is build for the future, that just seems to be your motto. Yes okay Lumb failed, and maybe we should look at replacing 1 or 2 players, but there is no need to be making drastic overhauls to any side.

Most of the posts you ever write, always seem to be critical and just look to make changes and build towards the future, do you not think there is possibly a moment when we should just look at the present. We have just won 3 ODI series and will probably win our next two! What is the point in making drastic overhauls when this side has come together and gelled. I personally don't see what Bresnan as done so badly for everyone to blag him. Both Anderson and Broad went for more runs in the series than Bresnan did, he also scored the 4th most runs and had the 4th best average, all without any not outs. He has better averages then Yardy, KP, Swann, Keis, Wright and Broad (who is supposed to be a proper all rounder). Yes okay, Bresnan didn't take all that many wickets, but when Broad has done that in other series people haven't been calling for his head.

I don't really see what this need for change is all about, yeah we lost the last two, but the lads won the one's that mattered, where is the problem? We won the series, lets actually enjoy the success rather than nit picking.

 

[War]

Where do England go from here then? We've won the series, played excellently in the first 3 games but have been out-played in these last 2 and looked pretty awful. Even though we've won the series it's clear that changes do have to be made, but who do we bring in? Tim Bresnan is one guy that should definitely get the boot. The only thing he's done all series was the match-winning knock of just over double figures in the 2nd/3rd game? He's bowled awfully, not looked like getting a wicket and really doesn't provide enough with the bat to justify his position. Yardy's another that could make way. He's bowled OK, not taken too many wickets, but has been economical. His batting improved as the series went on, with the 50 in the 4th game, but I still don't think he's International quality. Then there's Kieswetter, who unfortunately is under pressure too. He's had a poor series, has been exposed by the Aussie pace bowlers and not looked very good at all. I would stick with him for at least 2 more series though, as I don't agree with our policy of continually changing our keeper. I'd be tempted to bring Davies into the side as a pure batsman, and then if Kieswetter continues to fail, drop him for Ian Bell. The final guy that's under real pressure is Luke Wright, seemingly doesn't offer much with the bat or ball, a real bits and pieces cricketer. Needs to go back to Sussex and make some runs and take some wickets in List A cricket.

Who comes in then? I'd personally go with:

Craig Kieswetter +
Steven Davies
Andrew Strauss
Kevin Pietersen
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Michael Yardy/Adil Rashid (based on his T20 form)
Ajmal Shahzad
Graeme Swann
Stuart Broad
James Anderson

Wright out for Steven Davies, Bresnan out replaced by Shahzad and given how well Adil Rashid has gone in Domestic T20 he comes I'd consider bring him in for Michael Yardy. Then, when Flintoff's fit, he comes into the side in place of Shahzad and moves upto number 7. Thoughts?

Dont see why you would want to move Strauss down to # 3 & KP @ 4. Thats not going to happen.

I would think surely Patel & Blackwell would be ahead of Rashid as Yardy's challengers as well. Rashid is crap ATS, should be near the England team in any format in the near future.

I'd personally as Owzat suggested a few pages back. Continue with the top 5 but pick Shah @#6, since he is best choice:

Strauss
Kieswetter
KP
Colly
Sir Morgan
Shah
Yardy
Swann
Broad
Sidebottom (fitness permitting)
Anderson

And of course when/if Flintoff is back by the 2011 WC. Flintoff would come back in for Sidebottom. Plus Wright for Shah since, i still Wright could be useful batting @# 7 coming in as a late overs slogger.

 

[Robelinda]

As an Aussie supporter I dont fear Bresnan or Wright, I think Yardy does an ok job with the ball so keep him. England should pick a legspinner I feel, but I guess Yardy and Swann is enough spin. They have enough pace bowlers who do a really fine job, most of the time! Got to say they look pretty good England.

 

[Themer]

Patel & Blackwell

Patel has been awful for three years now and should be nowhere near the England team and this is coming from a Notts fan, granted he's had a few decent knocks this year but his record has been awful of late. Infact this year in the County Championship he's averaged 21.

Blackwell's been tried repeatedly and has failed on all the chances hes been given so I would see it as a backward step to go to him, especially when he's averaging 20 with the bat this year and 40 with the ball.

Similarly Shah isn't going to get anywhere near the team especially since he is so poor in the field and hasn't really lit up the domestic season thus far.

I'd be more inclided to get someone like Hildreth in; hes really kicked on this year.

 

[War]

I have to disagree as far as Kieswetter > Davies with the bat. In the last 3 years Steven Davies has been one of the best OD batsmen in the country, and has been striking at over 100 each of those years. He scores quickly, he's good against pace, very good against spin and one thing he offers that Kieswetter doesn't is his ability to rotate the strike, which is something Kieswetter has really struggled with in International cricket. I like Craig a lot, and want to see him given a decent run in the side, but Davies has been undoubtedly the better batsman in the last few years, and Kieswetter only really got in because he was in the right place at the right time. Playing Davies, Kieswetter and Strauss gives us more depth in the batting, a more aggressive opening pair and allows the out of form Pietersen to move down the order slightly.

Nah thats not right. Although Davies has been the better forming of the two in domestic cricket statistically. This again always comes back to argument of watching players bat instead of totally going on stats.

One thing obviously that domestic list A in Englad over the past 20 years cricket doesn't have for doemstic openers is quality 90 mph new-ball bowlers. This is why since the 1992 WC, only Trescothick, Knight, Robin Smith have been the successful ODI openers we have had.

My personal view watching both Kieswtter & Davies bat over the years on sky. Kieswetter always has excited me more as a batsman capable of smoking 90 mph new-ball more consistently than Davies, since he has the more clinical power-game. Kieswetter for me is liley to score a 30 ball 50 in international cricket than Davies who for me would more liley score a 40-ball/run-a-ball ball fifty more often.

Thats x-factor is what prompted the selectors to pick Kieswetter in the T20 & ODI teams over Davies i feel. Not because as you said "he was in the right place @ the right time". The selectors clearly had enough time to look at both in domestic cricket

As for Trott vs Bell. If I was going to bring either of them in at this stage it'd be Bell. The next World Cup is in the Subcontinent, so ability against spin bowling is vital. Bell is one of the best players of spin in England, and has gone back to Warwickshire and worked very hard on his One Day game to increase his scoring rate. Trott continues to look poor against spin in one day cricket. He struggles to rotate the strike, scores too slowly and doesn't appear to have a consistent boundary option. He doesn't play the powerful sweeps, he doesn't have a reverse sweep and I've never seen him skip down the track to a spinner. Kieswetter, Davies and Bell have all shown an ability to score quickly against spin, and look a lot better against spin. It'd be a massive risk playing Trott up the order in ODi's in the subcontinent I think.

*Sighs*. Not this again KP, WE had this discussion on these two topics before & you have continued with this incorrect analysis.

Firstly again you are overating the importance of how important batsmen's ability to play spin in WC in the sub-continent will be next year. 80% of the matches will be played in India. None of England's previous ODI series in the last decade that i've seen (2001/02, 2005/06, 2006 Champions Trophy & 2008/09). Plus also ODI series from AUS tours of IND (2000/01, 07/0, 08/09TVS Cup 03) along with the last 3 IPL tournaments.

Its fairly obvious that in limited overs cricket in India at least. Turning pitches aren't very prevalent as it is in test matches. You alot of batting beauties & even a few english style greentops have been seen.

Only in Sri Lanka & Bangladesh are turning pitches/low slow pitches going to be prevalent. Given that England are scheduled next year in the WC to play play the majority of their matches in India, anyway. Batsmen's ability to play spin on turners wont be an major issue.


But at the same time, although Trott is not the greatest player of spin. He certainly isn't as bad a spinner as you are suggesting. Ok he struggled in Bangladesh. But he handled Sakid & company very well when in the return series here in England.

Plus of course Trott should have NEVER have been dropepd from the ODI team. A totally ridiculous selection by the selectors, after he had barely played 4 or 5 ODIs & had done nothing wrong. Also For reasons i have articulated before, i totally disagree with Bell being recalled, thats just the selectors not learning from past ODI call-up mixtakes.

 

[War]

Patel has been awful for three years now and should be nowhere near the England team and this is coming from a Notts fan, granted he's had a few decent knocks this year but his record has been awful of late. Infact this year in the County Championship he's averaged 21.

3 years?. I dont have time to check thats stats now. But that would mean he according to you that he has been bad domestically since 2008. Which seems very odd since in 2008 he was very much a solid part of our ODI team before he got dropped for fitness isssues.

I have seen in the last couple of weeks on sky in the current T20 competition. Patel scoring two very good half-centuries & he looks very good - definately a better batsman than Yardy. Only key thing Yardy has over him is that Yardy's bowling is more of a frontline option for international cricket, whoch is important for England maintaining a solid 5-man ODI bowling attack, with Flintoff not around. Patel bowling is very much part-time still, which is not whats needed.

His FC record is irrelevant. Since he is never going to be considered test cricket. If he is the selectors should face a firing squad.

Blackwell's been tried repeatedly and has failed on all the chances hes been given so I would see it as a backward step to go to him, especially when he's averaging 20 with the bat this year and 40 with the ball.

Blackwell continious failed as a batsmen. But his bowling was always fairly solid though. Just as good as Giles for the most part.

ATS though i am fine with Yardy playing. The selectors said early this year, that they are keeping an eye on Blackwell. See here (although disturbingly it could be for test match consideration), but i am not totally convinced about him getting a recall. Patel is the man IMO who should be really pushing Yardy for a place.

Similarly Shah isn't going to get anywhere near the team especially since he is so poor in the field and hasn't really lit up the domestic season thus far.

Shah fielding issues is an overplayed myth. Its not as bad as people make it sound. Plus as i've always said he should never have been dropped from the ODI squad althogether either.

It shouldn't be that relevant that he hasn't lit up the domestic season this year thus far. He did the good in the ODI team fairly consistenly for 2 years between 2007-2009. Some players rise up to the challenge of international & competitive cricket - more than domestic cricket.

Shah has always come across to me as one of those players. Since after being foolishly dropped last year. He was a early star in the IPL for Kolkatta Knight Riders, plus score 92 in AUS first tour match before the ODI series.

I'd be more inclided to get someone like Hildreth in; hes really kicked on this year.

Not so sure about that. Admittedly i have not followed him at all this season. But i cant see him ever being taken seriously by the selectors for any format if he stays @ Somerset for obvious reasons.

War added 2 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Speaking of All-Time Australian ODI XIs:

1. M.Hayden
2. A.Gilchrist (wk)
3. R.Ponting (c)
4. D.Jones
5. A.Symonds
6. M.Hussey
7. M.Bevan
8. S.Warne
9. B.Lee
10. N.Bracken
11. G.McGrath

Thoughts?

Would always pick M Waugh to open ahead of Hayden personally. While i'd be tempted to pick Lille over Bracken as well.

 

[Num]

Would always pick M Waugh to open ahead of Hayden personally. While i'd be tempted to pick Lille over Bracken as well.

Ah, fair enough, but I'm keeping Hayden.

1. M.Hayden
2. A.Gilchrist (wk)
3. R.Ponting (c)
4. D.Jones
5. A.Symonds
6. M.Hussey
7. M.Bevan
8. S.Warne
9. B.Lee
10. D.Lillee
11. G.McGrath