Border Gavaskar Trophy 24/25 - India in Australia.

[asprin]

This is just a little dramatic

Guilty as charged. Let's call it a session then.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I think people are putting too much stock into Konstas. Personally, I think we've played him way too early. Should have had at least another full season of shield cricket (maybe county if picked up). He's hasn't experienced teams putting work into him before (technique/mental side that is). I just think the way he plays, while entetaining, won't serve him very well long term.

Depends what Australia are looking for in an opener. People who were hyping up McSweeney for nullifying the new ball, even though he wasn't scoring runs, were then hyping up Konstas for putting the opposition on the back foot. Konstas' technique certainly didn't seem flawless and if he's likely to be trying ramps teams will just try and hit the stumps and hope he misses or use fly slips or have some one at fine third man.

 

[ddrap14]

I think people are putting too much stock into Konstas. Personally, I think we've played him way too early. Should have had at least another full season of shield cricket (maybe county if picked up). He's hasn't experienced teams putting work into him before (technique/mental side that is). I just think the way he plays, while entetaining, won't serve him very well long term.

I cannot disagree more.

1. He's absolutely the best option for the job, cricket wise. Genuinely, who else is there? McSweeney spent his Tests proving why he isn't an opener - I believe in him at number 3, but not up top. Bancroft is old and in horrific form. Renshaw's pretty much given up on the Aussie Test team. And if we select Harris for another Test ever again I'm switching my flair to England
2. He's also the only part of this team that has any kind of positive future outlook. Even today's debutant is 32 this year. We can't have everyone retire within 3-4 years.
3. Finally, he's also completely changed the attitude of the Aussie team. His fearlessness will lead to inconsistency while he's young, but it also has clearly led to him getting straight under the skin of the Indian players. Even if you consider the antics with Bumrah to be a bad thing, look at Jaiswal last Test trying to smash a boundary in a play-for-the-draw situation just to try and shut him up at silly point

I will say I definitely don't think he's perfect - see the bottom of this message - but I do think he's better than Sandpaper Man, Number 3 Man, and Genuinely Horrific At Cricket Man, and we aren't getting Goofy Lovable Man back anytime soon sadly - even if I think Renshaw-Konstas should be our opening partnership for Sri Lanka (or perhaps Connolly-Konstas?)

Guilty as charged. Let's call it a session then.

That's fair, definitely

People who were hyping up McSweeney for nullifying the new ball, even though he wasn't scoring runs, were then hyping up Konstas for putting the opposition on the back foot.

I think there's place for both in the Test XI. I was very vocal when we dropped McSweeney that Konstas coming in for exactly that reason was good, but we dropped the wrong guy. (That said, I said it should have been Marnus, and clearly not having the top two stonewalling has proven good for him. It probably should have been Khawaja)

Also, on Konstas' ramp. There's one thing that separates it from, say, Rishabh's: his stance.

He's watching the ball onto the bat and playing with... well, as close as you can get to a traditional technique for a ramp. That means it's pretty rare for him to miscue it, he'd have to edge it in the same way you edge a drive.

And even if they put third man back to try and get him caught: that's fine too! It either takes out a slip, or it opens up another run scoring avenue, just because he can do it. And the thing I like most about Konstas is that he seems to be good at reading the bowling - certainly I thought his awareness and anticipation were features of his CAXI 100, his BBL 50 and then his MCG 60. He knows when to put away the ramp - usually after it's drawn the fielder back there.

(Not to say I expect stacks of runs from the kid. He's definitely still learning the game at the highest level. What I hope is to see continued growth and an average in the 30s for now that increases as he becomes more senior in the team. Anyone who thinks he's gonna come in and destroy cricket to the level a Marnus or a Kamindu did is pretty delusional.)

 

[GuyIncognito]

Depends what Australia are looking for in an opener. People who were hyping up McSweeney for nullifying the new ball, even though he wasn't scoring runs, were then hyping up Konstas for putting the opposition on the back foot. Konstas' technique certainly didn't seem flawless and if he's likely to be trying ramps teams will just try and hit the stumps and hope he misses or use fly slips or have some one at fine third man.

McSweeney isn't an opener though, plays at 4 for South Australia. We're going through the batting version of 06/07 bowlers, spinners, the next few years. Just throwing players out and see who scores the most runs in a few matches.

Not wanting to go off topic, I personally think guys like Oliver Davies, Fergus O'Neill (bowler, just big on him lol), Campbell Kellaway, Cooper Connolly, Tim Ward are a bit more stable prospects than Konstas at the moment. Well, maybe not Connolly. lol.

 

[ddrap14]

McSweeney isn't an opener though, plays at 4 for South Australia. We're going through the batting version of 06/07 bowlers, spinners, the next few years. Just throwing players out and see who scores the most runs in a few matches.

Not wanting to go off topic, I personally think guys like Oliver Davies, Fergus O'Neill (bowler, just big on him lol), Campbell Kellaway, Cooper Connolly, Tim Ward are a bit more stable prospects than Konstas at the moment. Well, maybe not Connolly. lol.

First of all - I'm VERY high on Connolly for the same reason as I am Konstas, both of them have incredible game awareness for their ages.

I was just having a discussion with my father about how I agree on most of those, albeit not over Konstas in most cases. For context, my all 30-and-younger Australia XI is Renshaw-Konstas-McSweeney-Connolly-Davies-Green-uhhh, Inglis?-J Richardson-O'Neill-Kuhnemann-Morris. (*) (For non Aussies, a reminder that Head and Webster are in fact both over 30). I definitely think Davies and O'Neill have one big flaw - turning starts into scores for Davies (hi Shaun Marsh) and pace for Fergus - but they've got serious potential. Tim Ward, if he can keep what he's done this year in the Shield going for this calendar year, really puts his hand up to take Khawaja's spot (I assume Usman is going to hang on for dear life for one last Ashes).

The only one I question is Kellaway, I feel he's a little overhyped. Bro has one hundred in 47 knocks at a strike rate of 38. If we're picking someone in that SR profile, it's clearly Henry Hunt, who's 27 and the top Shield scorer. (For a direct comparison beyond that - 11 tons in 98 innings at a SR of 42)

* - I also think I could see any of the pace attack from the U19 World Cup last year in it quickly, but without having seen any in FC cricket, I don't feel I can put them in that in good faith

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I cannot disagree more.

1. He's absolutely the best option for the job, cricket wise. Genuinely, who else is there? McSweeney spent his Tests proving why he isn't an opener - I believe in him at number 3, but not up top. Bancroft is old and in horrific form. Renshaw's pretty much given up on the Aussie Test team. And if we select Harris for another Test ever again I'm switching my flair to England
2. He's also the only part of this team that has any kind of positive future outlook. Even today's debutant is 32 this year. We can't have everyone retire within 3-4 years.
3. Finally, he's also completely changed the attitude of the Aussie team. His fearlessness will lead to inconsistency while he's young, but it also has clearly led to him getting straight under the skin of the Indian players. Even if you consider the antics with Bumrah to be a bad thing, look at Jaiswal last Test trying to smash a boundary in a play-for-the-draw situation just to try and shut him up at silly point

I will say I definitely don't think he's perfect - see the bottom of this message - but I do think he's better than Sandpaper Man, Number 3 Man, and Genuinely Horrific At Cricket Man, and we aren't getting Goofy Lovable Man back anytime soon sadly - even if I think Renshaw-Konstas should be our opening partnership for Sri Lanka (or perhaps Connolly-Konstas?)

That's fair, definitely

I think there's place for both in the Test XI. I was very vocal when we dropped McSweeney that Konstas coming in for exactly that reason was good, but we dropped the wrong guy. (That said, I said it should have been Marnus, and clearly not having the top two stonewalling has proven good for him. It probably should have been Khawaja)

Also, on Konstas' ramp. There's one thing that separates it from, say, Rishabh's: his stance.
View attachment 301148
He's watching the ball onto the bat and playing with... well, as close as you can get to a traditional technique for a ramp. That means it's pretty rare for him to miscue it, he'd have to edge it in the same way you edge a drive.

And even if they put third man back to try and get him caught: that's fine too! It either takes out a slip, or it opens up another run scoring avenue, just because he can do it. And the thing I like most about Konstas is that he seems to be good at reading the bowling - certainly I thought his awareness and anticipation were features of his CAXI 100, his BBL 50 and then his MCG 60. He knows when to put away the ramp - usually after it's drawn the fielder back there.

(Not to say I expect stacks of runs from the kid. He's definitely still learning the game at the highest level. What I hope is to see continued growth and an average in the 30s for now that increases as he becomes more senior in the team. Anyone who thinks he's gonna come in and destroy cricket to the level a Marnus or a Kamindu did is pretty delusional.)

Yeah it's not a criticism. It was exhilarating stuff watching him in that first innings. It's tough to know how he'll fare in this match let alone the long term because of the unorthodox style of his innings.

It seems like generally most players have decent window until they might regress, unless they have an obvious flaw, I'd imagine data has a lot to do with this.

McSweeney isn't an opener though, plays at 4 for South Australia. We're going through the batting version of 06/07 bowlers, spinners, the next few years. Just throwing players out and see who scores the most runs in a few matches.

Not wanting to go off topic, I personally think guys like Oliver Davies, Fergus O'Neill (bowler, just big on him lol), Campbell Kellaway, Cooper Connolly, Tim Ward are a bit more stable prospects than Konstas at the moment. Well, maybe not Connolly. lol.

Konstas feels a bit left field, particularly as in Australia you usually have to earn you stripes in domestic cricket (like McSweeney and Webster), but like England have gone all in on Bethell (Bashir and Rehan to an extent) sometimes a player is worth the risk or is going to develop better playing at the top level. In Bashir's case he's possibly played more for England than he would have if he'd just have been at Somerset.

I think the older players are probably going to play a little longer than they may have done. They will want to make the Ashes and then that's only half way through a WTC cycle so they might push a year longer. For multi-format players, there's the temptation of a major tournament every year to just keep going a little more.

 

[Aislabie]

We're going through the batting version of 06/07

• Xavier Doherty
• Stuart MacGill
• Steve O'Keefe
• Jason Krejza
• Shane Warne
• Cameron White
• Beau Casson
• Brad Hogg
• Steve Smith
• Michael Beer
• Ashton Agar (we are here)

 

[wasteyouryouth]

• Xavier Doherty
• Stuart MacGill
• Steve O'Keefe
• Jason Krejza
• Shane Warne
• Cameron White
• Beau Casson
• Brad Hogg
• Steve Smith
• Michael Beer
• Ashton Agar (we are here)

Just like Konstas, Ashton Agar thrilled the world with his first innings

 

[ddrap14]

sometimes a player is worth the risk

This is exactly my thought on Konstas and Connolly. Not on JFM though. JFM needs to learn how to innings.

• Xavier Doherty
• Stuart MacGill
• Steve O'Keefe
• Jason Krejza
• Shane Warne
• Cameron White
• Beau Casson
• Brad Hogg
• Steve Smith
• Michael Beer
• Ashton Agar (we are here)

Quality shitpost, my only complaint is McSweeney as Beer

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Cricket 07 > Big Ant Games

 

[Fenil]

Just curious, is there any high quality FC spinners in the ranks who can take place of Lyon once he is retired? He is 37 and the upcoming Ashes series might be his last.

 

[asprin]

Prediction time - India is gonna waste the bowling friendly conditions in the first hour and end up taking only 1 wicket in the first session.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

Allan Border summed it up perfectly about that 19 yr old kid.

There is fine line between confidence and being cocky especially with his chirp and antics.

Batting wise personally I feel there is a bit of Glenn Maxwell about him.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

Here comes the danger man - Head.

Straightaway losener from Siraj can take the game away in a hour.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Just curious, is there any high quality FC spinners in the ranks who can take place of Lyon once he is retired? He is 37 and the upcoming Ashes series might be his last.

Somewhat.

Todd Murphy - Regressed a bit this season and mid last season. Still averaging 30 which is very good for Australia conditions.
Tanveer Sangha hasn't really had a coming out game in his career so far, but still young.
Corey Rocchiccioli - Has had a great season and outside of Murphy and Kuhnamen, is a candidate imo. 95 wickets in 31 matches averaging 31.
Matt Kuhnemann - Likely. Played a few tests, left armer so would pair well with right arm bowlers (Form hasn't been great lately).

Personally, I'd like to see Rocchiccioli or Kuhnemann come in eventually after Lyon, form depending obviously.