Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) Dec-Jan 2011/12

[Aalay]

Good, he already has 100s of 100, what is the wait for then?

Exactly. It is the media and some stupid Indian fans that are making such a hype about it.

 

[Rehan_24]

Seriously, in India except media, nobody cares about Sachin's 100"th tone. Because there is nothing special in the record book about 100th tone. But it is a great achievement as nobody in history has done it before and he is really close to achieving that mark. And don't you see, he is getting runs against everybody? He is getting that 70 or 80 odd but he just just can't get past that 100 afterwards. It's not like he hasn't performed. He has performed, but he is just not getting to that 100th mark.

Sachin is among Worlds Best... There are no two doubts on that... The problem lies in when it feels that the nation of the country feels Tendulkar's Century is more important than winning the game of cricket. Winning the game should be the first preference rather than the century.

 

[macintosh]

A news channel said that the news from Australia is that Dravid will announce his retirement tomorrow due to pressures on (could be from as well) BCCI!

I don't understand why him, why not Sachin, just because Dravid is older than Sachin? At least Dravid fired in England where all the other batsmen failed. Don't forget that he was the leading run scorer in 2011. It will be a big loss for the Indian team if the news is true, irrespective of the kind of form he is in.

Get this fried chickening desperate for 100th ton, Sachin Tendulkar out of the team first, Laxman and Dravid later.

I don't think Dravid and Sachin should be dropped, Laxman has been in terrible form and hasn't performed since quite long now, getting Rohit Sharma in place of Laxman would be a good idea considering Sharma's good performances in First Class matches and his performances in the ODIs.

Sehwag isn't a good option as an opener in overseas conditions, getting a specialist opener and making a solid top order should be the first priority because we have hardly got a good start in our previous matches. Rahane and Gambhir will form a good opening pair. Dravid and Sachin at 3 and 4 should can still do a good job.

People are criticizing the Indian batsmen but what about the bowlers??
the bowlers haven't bowled well apart from occasional good performances, even in England, bowlers did a terrible job considering the assistance they were getting from the pitch.
Umesh Yadav might have given 1 or 2 good performances, but he is still not good enough for international cricket and needs to be groomed well, he lacks control and leaks too many runs every time he bowls, he has bowled with an economy rate of almost 5 in the current series in good bowling conditions, Ishant has picked 5 wickets in 4 matches, he might have been unlucky, but he has not been able to consistently trouble the batsmen, the Australian batsmen looked quite comfortable facing him.
Zaheer is the only one who bowled well consistently though he didn't look fully fit. You cannot win a test series with just 1 good bowler.

 

[AbhishekS]

Why is Sehwag not a good option to open overseas?
He made a ton on his debut in South Africa, first test century as an opener in England, two centuries in Australia (both were amazing imo, especially the 151 Adelaid where no other batsman didn't even score >20, the other one was almost a double), has failed in tests in New Zealand but was the best batsman in both the ODI series in New Zealand.
Yes he had some horrendous time in the recently concluded South African, English and Australian test series but those shouldn't over-shadow his past performances.

On Tendulkar, well he generally hovers between 25-75. Consistent? Yes, but not useful. I would want Dravid to stay and Tendulkar to retire, but I don't see that happening until he gets the 100th ton.

Laxman has terribly out under-performed according to his standards but should be fine when returns back on Indian pitches. Laxman shouldn't retire ATM but if someone HAS to out of the big 3, then it should be Laxman first, followed by Tendulkar. But considering that all our tests are in India till 2013 end, I don't think any of the big 3 should retire now and at least play a series back in India.

Dravid probably is targeted for some lame reasons. Yes he had a bad series, but who didn't! Why do people forget that he was the highest run scorer in 2011 and the only batsman to tackle the English bowlers, which shows that he still has a huge appetite for runs.

 

[Aalay]

Why is Sehwag not a good option to open overseas?
He made a ton on his debut in South Africa, first test century as an opener in England, two centuries in Australia (both were amazing imo, especially the 151 Adelaid where no other batsman didn't even score >20, the other one was almost a double), has failed in tests in New Zealand but was the best batsman in both the ODI series in New Zealand.
Yes he had some horrendous time in the recently concluded South African, English and Australian test series but those shouldn't over-shadow his past performances.

On Tendulkar, well he generally hovers between 25-75. Consistent? Yes, but not useful. I would want Dravid to stay and Tendulkar to retire, but I don't see that happening until he gets the 100th ton.

Your Sehwag mania is not allowing you to look beyond him. This is his average after 2008 outside subcontinent.

28 in New Zealand
24 in South Africa
10.25 in England
19.67 in Australia.

Feb 2008 onwards - outside Asia 11 Matches 443 Runs 21.09 Average 74.95Strike Rate 2 Fifties

When in the same time Sachin is averaging around 50. So who is more consistent? Sachin or Sehwag?

 

[AbhishekS]

Your Sehwag mania is not allowing you to look beyond him. This is his average after 2008 outside subcontinent.

Why do you just see compare the post 2008 stats, why not all the stats? This is just a stupid way of comparison IMO. Even I agree that Sehwag hasn't been much successful overseas since 2008, but then why do people forget his past achievements?

When in the same time Sachin is averaging around 50. So who is more consistent? Sachin or Sehwag?

When I say that Dravid has a better average than Sachin, people say that average does not reflect consistency and Sachin is more consistent. I suggest the fans of Sachin to be more consistent with their views and thoughts. If Sachin has a higher average, then Sachin is consistent, but if Sachin has a lower average, even then Sachin is consistent. What BS! It's always been pathetic to debate with Sachin fans, online as well as face to face.

----------

Have a look at this list, it shows Indian batsmen with highest average (min. 300 runs) in tests outside India. Sachin is at the top, his fans can now jump in the air, rejoice with joy and party hard, but Sehwag averages 44.73, which is not bad at all.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And in ODIs he averages 35.86 outside India, which is good when compared to his overall ODI batting average.

 

[Themer]

Why do you just see compare the post 2008 stats, why not all the stats?

Because he's talking about who's been the most suitable player to open overseas for India now. Not in the past.

 

[AbhishekS]

Because he's talking about who's been the most suitable player to open overseas for India now. Not in the past.

Because he knows that Sehwag hasn't performed well overseas since 2008. Even 2008 is past, 4 years FYI.

 

[Themer]

Because he knows that Sehwag hasn't performed well overseas since 2008

If he hasn't performed well in the recent past then surely his position should be under scrutiny then?

Working on your logic England should recall Boycott cause in the 70s he was really good even if of late he hasn't had as many knocks as he'd of liked.

 

[AbhishekS]

If he hasn't performed well in the recent past then surely his position should be under scrutiny then?

How many matches have India played overseas since 2008, not much!

And if you notice, Sehwag averaged 30 odd against South Africa and most of the other South African batsmen averaged nearly the same. Against England, he got just two matches, one of them was huge failure. And against Australia, the entire team failed as a unit, not just Sehwag. At least I can proudly say that he is one out of three batsmen who scored two 50+ scores in this series, the other two being Virat and Sachin.

 

[Themer]

I'm not entering the debate over Sehwag, merely pointing out that you can't say its improper to use selected stats. Especially ones that are related to the issue at hand. The question posed was whether he was still the right person to be opening overseas now, its pretty obvious that you should be looking at his recent stats not ones from years ago.

 

[shravi]

Yudi, Sehwag has been poor outside the subcontinent for a while now. Perhaps he played well before but at the moment, he is struggling and after 3 consecutive tours overseas (South Africa, England, Australia). He still merits a place in the ODI team and nobody is disputing that for now. However, unlike Sachin, Dravid or Laxman, it is not age that is catching up with him. It is that the opposition bowlers have bowled to a clear plan and he hasn't been able to combat it because his technique hasn't been solid enough. As the stats show, at this moment in time and in the very recent past, he hasn't been the same batsman he is at home. He's a shadow of himself overseas and perhaps it's time India looked elsewhere.

When Sehwag himself has admitted that he may have a problem, I don't see why you are having trouble in admitting it: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/video_audio/551386.html?genre=2

As for your comment about Dravid > Sachin, don't get into that. Both of them have different roles and both are supremely good at their respective roles. I think their record shows that. It's very hard to look past the sheer amount of runs they have scored. When you score that many runs, you just stop comparing because only the best of the best can stay around for that long and still be that successful. India will miss both of them equally because it's very rare that you get 2 players of that ilk in one generation playing alongside each other. India should consider themselves lucky to have had both of them, and not try and decide who is/was more valuable, because at the end of the day, if you were given a choice of picking one of them, you'd pick both (logical fallacy, yes, I know)...

 

[cricket_icon]

It has been one long embarrassment for India since England 2011.

There are a few positives, namely Yadav bowling well on occasion and Kohli seemingly coming of age.

The problems are deep rooted though, with India still not being able to put together a decent bowling attack, they can't even find a suitable spinner anymore.

The batting is in crisis, Laxman must go!! Dravid has earned his right to carry on for a bit longer. Tendulkar has been consistent but not spectacular, this probably earns him a little respite and a few more games. I just think new batting talent has to find it's way through the system and pressure the old guys into form, nothing like a bit of competition to wake them up.

And the less said on Sehwag the better

 

[midgetwars]

Prior to this series it was 293 runs @ 26.23

Not sure if its his revival or just Indian bowling

Both, because Ponting actually scored a 50 in South Africa, his first useful score in a while.


In hindsight, Australia did actually beat India with their 4th best team.

 

[mrtwisties]

Easy to overreact, I think, both to the triumphs and the defeats in this series.

Sharma, Yadav and Ashwin have all done enough to put their hands up as the core of India's attack for the next decade or so. Of course, someone needs to teach the beanpole to bowl fuller, the speedster to bowl more patiently, and the twirlyman to set better fields - but the raw tools are all there. If they can consistently put together MCG-like performances, they'll be world beaters.

Batting's actually less of a problem, IMO. Kohli has shown that domestic class can translate to the international stage - and has done that against one of the better bowling sides in international cricket. Just phase in the rest of your young guns over the next year or so. Laxman should probably go first, then Dravid and Tendulkar at the end of a victorious home summer.

----------

As for Australia's batting... well, we've got problems when you think about what the next Ashes series entails. Watson at three and Clarke at five seem like no-brainers to me, but there are question marks over everyone else in the side. Rather than sitting around hoping the incumbents come good, I think we need to give the likes of mini-Marsh, Maddinson et al a run in international cricket as an insurance policy. Ideally I'd actually like to see Warner and Hughes opening in 2013 - they've both got buckets of raw talent - but we've got to be realistic about the prospects of that actually happening.