Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) Dec-Jan 2011/12

[sifter132]

I am sorry but Copeland is not better than Praveen. Again he can be similar to praveen as I have written in a post 3 or 4 pages ago but he can't be better than Praveen.

They're different bowlers. Praveen uses swing, Copeland uses seam and bounce. Unless there is dry, reversing conditions I don't think Praveen will be particularly useful in Australia. He'll be tidy, but once the ball stops swinging I think he'll be pretty toothless. Copeland could be similarly toothless I guess, but seam and bounce are better weapons than swing on Aussie wickets.

Of course Harris and Bollinger are my personal favorite bowlers but Johnson hasn't done much in longer formats of game.

Nah, Johnson's never done much at Test level ...just 185 wickets at 30. There's only 4 current fast bowlers with more wickets (Steyn, Anderson, Zaheer, Chris Martin) and of those only Steyn has a lower average and strike rate than Mitch. I can see why people don't rate Johnson, but to say he's done nothing is a bit silly.

 

[1iram1]

Nah, Johnson's never done much at Test level ...just 185 wickets at 30. There's only 4 current fast bowlers with more wickets (Steyn, Anderson, Zaheer, Chris Martin) and of those only Steyn has a lower average and strike rate than Mitch. I can see why people don't rate Johnson, but to say he's done nothing is a bit silly.
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Exactly, Aalay thinks this Zaheer-less Indian bowling attack is better than Australia's. Johnson and Harris will most likely rip India apart. Something tells me Australia's bowling will be more dangerous than England's was. Hopefully the new selectors will pick Hauritz. And @Aalay, I was comparing First-class stats.

I also don't think Aaron who averages 38 in first-class will make an impact.

 

[angryangy]

The swingers do keep batsmen honest, but I think the best of PK is actually that he does bank it off the seam sometimes. He's a good stump to stump bowler and even at his pace, all he needs to do is bowl straight and move it a bat's width off the pitch; it's still too quick for a batsman to consistently make a good correction.

Harbhajan is an interesting situation. Last time he didn't get a heap of wickets, but he did consistently get one. However, much of that was vested in the zippy nature of his doosra, a ball he doesn't seem keen on bowling any more. If Harbhajan can turn back the clock, then maybe he should be there, but if he can't, he is definitely a liability.

And speaking of last time, let's just consider Ishant Sharma with respect to Irfan Pathan. Sharma won all the plaudits for his spells to Ponting at Perth, but it was actually Pathan who picked up the cheap early wickets in both innings. Many of our thoughts turn to scepticism of Praveen Kumar because of his lack of pace, but we're not as quick to judge a player who lacks skill. Like many of Australia's own bowlers last summer, Sharma can't expect to have a good tour purely because he can generate a bit of pace and bounce.

 

[Aalay]

Exactly, Aalay thinks this Zaheer-less Indian bowling attack is better than Australia's. Johnson and Harris will most likely rip India apart. Something tells me Australia's bowling will be more dangerous than England's was. Hopefully the new selectors will pick Hauritz. And @Aalay, I was comparing First-class stats.

I also don't think Aaron who averages 38 in first-class will make an impact.

lol First class stats? Where Praveen played 44 matches and Copeland played 21?
These matches are not enough to compare both of them. And I have seen both of them bowling. Copeland in Sri Lanka and Praveen in WI and India(Domestic). Both pitches are very similar. The only difference is in Sri Lanka, they won't get the bounce as they will in WI but still Praveen does not rely on bounce. The only thing he depends on is SWING. Copeland is a tall guy, yes he is accurate but he can get that bounce which could also help him. Yes he bowled well but I have seen Praveen bowl way better in WI and in India. So saying Copeland better than Praveen does not really sound that great.

Harris and Johnson will rip India apart? Firstly I don't think Harris can even play a whole series. Secondly by looking at Johnson's current form, his place can be in trouble anytime if he does not perform in SA. So I am not sure if they can rip India apart.

The England series was a must needed wake up for Indian team. They were just unprepared and unfit for their biggest series of the year. So they did get the result they should have. Now I don't think they will do the same mistake about Australia.

 

[1iram1]

Secondly by looking at Johnson's current form, his place can be in trouble anytime

This is what happened to Broad before the Ind-Eng series started. Johnson will do a Broad.

 

[War]

I am sorry but Copeland is not better than Praveen. Again he can be similar to praveen as I have written in a post 3 or 4 pages ago but he can't be better than Praveen.

I never said Copeland is better than Kumar in my post. I said based on what I've seen of them in tests, that they are basically similar.

And you have seen Ishant Sharma on his last Australian tour. You do know that how lethal he can be, too right?

Yes, but since that AUS tour his career has evolved into one of bowler than blows hot and cold - instead of one of the consistency of spearhead.

This year on tours to S Africa and England against those top batting line-ups he struggled, while bowling well against a Windies team with a out of form batting line-up that was missing Gayle.

So based on that evidence, it would be naive for anyone to expect Sharma to be a threat in Australia, especially given the early improvement AUS batsmen has showed by winning in Sri Lanka.

Plus there is a secret weapon in Varun Aaron, who has pace and bounce and he just played in Australia in the Emerging trophy and did pretty good.

Every time a India's fast-bowler gets hyped, as some tearaway, he flops at international level given the pressure IND fans, media etc put on him.

So regardless of the fact that this youngster may be talented, i wont be buying into any hype he may have until he plays and does something, given that IND has a terrible history of producing quality fast-bowlers.

There are ups and down in both side in bowling department but at the end of the day I would never say that Current Aussie fast bowlers are better than Indian fast bowlers. Of course Harris and Bollinger are my personal favorite bowlers but Johnson hasn't done much in longer formats of game. Copeland is still pretty new to this format. I don't think Lyon will cause any trouble for Indian batsman. So I can't see any reason why India can't beat Australia in that series.

What?..As an overall group performance wise the AUS quick bowling options talent in domestic cricket or depth wise in Harris, Bollinger, Copeland, Siddle, Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Starc, Pattinson, Cummings, George, Cameron, Swann.

Is better than everything IND has playing in test even with a fully fit Zaheer Khan or back in IND domestic cricket, that should even be a debate.

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This is what happened to Broad before the Ind-Eng series started. Johnson will do a Broad.

ATM that seems unlikely. Johnson currently has fallen behind Bollinger/Harris/Copeland/Siddle in AUS test bowling pecking order & i'd be surprised unless something miraculous occurs, if he plays in any of the tests when IND arrive in AUS.

 

[Aalay]

This is what happened to Broad before the Ind-Eng series started. Johnson will do a Broad.

I am sorry but give me one reason why are you so confident about it? It can happen but than again it can't happen, too.

What?..As an overall group performance wise the AUS quick bowling options talent in domestic cricket or depth wise in Harris, Bollinger, Copeland, Siddle, Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Starc, Pattinson, Cummings, George, Cameron, Swann.

Is better than everything IND has playing in test even with a fully fit Zaheer Khan or back in IND domestic cricket, that should even be a debate.

Well if you have told me the same thing back in 2006/07 than I would agree with you but not anymore. You are just looking at the depth in Aussie domestic and of course they will have more fast bowlers than us because those fast bouncy pitches are made for fast bowlers in Australia. In India we have slow turning wickets where no one wants to be a fast bowler. So as you guys are lacking a quality spiiner right now, we are trying to find a genuine fast bowler who can take over from Zaheer Khan.

Praveen, Ishant, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Munaf, Abhimanyu Mithun, Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, Jaidev Unadkat, Vinay Kumar, Irfan, Sreenath Arvind, Prasant Parmeshwaran.

There is depth in Indian fast bowling,too. And there is lots of talent in Domestic cricket. The thing is that the new young bowlers does not get enough chances to prove themselves. And of course there will be hype about Varun Aaron. He is a genuine fast bowler which India is in need of. Bowling at 150 in India is never easy and he has done it, so people will be excited to see the talent.

So you saying there is no debate about it? Well I would say it is a debatable question. Again I repeat that I can't say that current Aussie fast bowlers are better than India's fast bowlers.

 

[AngryPixel]

Are we seriously having a debate about Indian new ball bowlers vs Aussie fast bowlers ? Even the Aussie domestic teams have better fast bowling attack than India.

 

[angryangy]

It's clearly Siddle who is 'doing a Broad'.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Praveen, Ishant, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Munaf, Abhimanyu Mithun, Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, Jaidev Unadkat, Vinay Kumar, Irfan, Sreenath Arvind, Prasant Parmeshwaran.

Bolded ones would struggle to make an English or Australian domestic side, and the ones in italics are injured.

Just sayin'

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There is depth in Indian fast bowling,too. And there is lots of talent in Domestic cricket. The thing is that the new young bowlers does not get enough chances to prove themselves. And of course there will be hype about Varun Aaron. He is a genuine fast bowler which India is in need of. Bowling at 150 in India is never easy and he has done it, so people will be excited to see the talent.

No...it's bowling at 150 at taking wickets that isn't easy. And Aaron hasn't done that yet.

And he barely bowls 150 regularly anyways. He's regularly late 130s. He can crank it up to 140 when he's fresh or in rhythm, and he touched 150s in that one vid of him in an OD game. But he's still young and raw, he needs more time and fitness till he's a genuine out and out pace bowler. And even then that's fairly useless without some other skills - Johsnon was regularly hitting 140s in SL yet was toothless. Watson and Copeland in 120s were more effective cause they could swing it/were accurate.

In India's case it's just the fact that the quick bowlers are either a) Very inconsistent (Sree, RP, Ishant) b) Can't do anything with the ball (Munaf, Vinay Kumar) or c) Too raw (Unadkat, Yadav, Mithun). And the small matter of fact that none of them are actually really quick - Sree, RP and Ishant can all be in the 140s when they have rhythm but don't manage it often enough, Yadav and Kumar barely do anything with the ball at pace and don't have much accuracy.

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So as you guys are lacking a quality spiiner right now

India are too. Wouldn't bracket any one of Harbhajan, Mishra, Ojha, Chawla or Ashwin as a quality international spinner at the moment.

 

[1iram1]

Are we seriously having a debate about Indian new ball bowlers vs Aussie fast bowlers ? Even the Aussie domestic teams have better fast bowling attack than India.

+1 on that AP. But if Zaheer comes back I reckon hes the best out of both teams.

 

[AngryPixel]

Yes, he is the best out of both teams but you cannot compare a whole attack based on a single player. Overall our attack would still be shitty. They can just block Zaheer and score in other overs.

 

[Gaurav_7]

India are too. Wouldn't bracket any one of Harbhajan, Mishra, Ojha, Chawla or Ashwin as a quality international spinner at the moment.

This is where I feel Murali Kartik needed to be given more opportunities. He's easily better than any of those there.

 

[War]

This is where I feel Murali Kartik needed to be given more opportunities. He's easily better than any of those there.

Ye i'm always surprised as to how Karthik isn't picked by IND, watching him in county cricket, he is certainly good enough to be playing for them in all formats.

 

[SaiSrini]

Murali Kartik has been given some really harsh treatment. It all started with Ganguly who has this scant respect for left arm spinners and so he played with Kartik's career. And that extended onto Dravid's captaincy as well and by the time the likes Mishra, Ojha and Ashwin came on, Kartik was completely forgotten. I still wish he gets a chance to comeback. He is a decent bat too, and he is a very good bowler.