Cricket 24 - General Discussion

[gkvarma18]

That's just because you're playing in India with your dodgy cricket balls....

No I was playing in England, at old Trafford that as human bowler beings bowled to AI batters when checking the ball condition

 

[Nithin Antony]

@MattW and @JNT BA ,

There is a serious issue with the t20 simulations of the engine. The simulations are 99% rigged in favour of the team batting second. No matter what the conditions or the team combination the team batting second will win the game 99% times. The lack of fall of wickets is a also a serious concern.

Below is the list of 10 matches simulated in the Indian t20 competition. 9/10 team batting second has won and in the only other game it was a tied match.
Average of team batting first is 94.63 at a run rate of 9.32 and for second it is 123 at 10.4 respectively. These are unreal numbers for t20.

Because of the wrong simulation in career, other players in the career are getting massive skill boosts as batsman impacting the overall experience of the career mode.

Requesting your team to kindly look into this and fix the issue.


Note : where ever 0 wickets were lost it was considered that 1 wicket was lost for mathematical reasons.


Slider settings :

Wicket chance was 90

Striker timing was 30

Run rate was 63

Averages

186.30​

20.00​

2.70​

188.50​

18.17​

2.40​

94.63​

9.32​

123.34​

10.40​

Match

Team 1

Team 2

Pitch Type

Hardness

Age

crack

Wear

First batting Score

overs

Wickets

Second Batting Score

Overs

Wickets

Winner

1 avg

1 r/r

2 avg

2 r/r

Difference

1​

DD

LSG

Dry

medium

1​

None

Normal

194​

20​

5​

195​

18.1​

1​

LSG

38.80​

9.70​

195.00​

10.77​

-1.07​

2​

PK

GT

Grassy / Dry

medium

5​

Light

Slow

186​

20​

4​

187​

17.1​

3​

GT

46.50​

9.30​

62.33​

10.94​

-1.64​

3​

KKR

RR

Standard

very soft

5​

Light

fast

194​

20​

0​

195​

18.2​

2​

RR

194.00​

9.70​

97.50​

10.71​

-1.01​

4​

MI

SRH

Grassy

Hard

1​

Heavy

Normal

179​

20​

3​

181​

17.4​

1​

MI

59.67​

8.95​

181.00​

10.40​

-1.45​

5​

LSG

SRH

Dusty

medium

1​

None

Normal

176​

20​

6​

178​

18.5​

4​

SRH

29.33​

8.80​

44.50​

9.62​

-0.82​

6​

RR

MI

Standard

soft

1​

Heavy

Slow

168​

20​

3​

172​

19.1​

7​

RR

56.00​

8.40​

24.57​

9.01​

-0.61​

7​

GT

KKR

Dry

medium

3​

Heavy

fast

178​

20​

3​

182​

17.4​

1​

KKR

59.33​

8.90​

182.00​

10.46​

-1.56​

8​

DD

PK

Standard

medium

4​

Light

Normal

188​

20​

3​

192​

16.5​

0​

PK

62.67​

9.40​

192.00​

11.64​

-2.24​

9​

PK

LSG

Grassy / Dusty

very soft

2​

Heavy

Slow

202​

20​

0​

205​

19.4​

1​

LSG

202.00​

10.10​

205.00​

10.57​

-0.47​

10​

KKR

DD

Grassy

soft

2​

Heavy

fast

198​

20​

0​

198​

20​

4​

DD

198.00​

9.90​

49.50​

9.90​

0.00​

 

[wasteyouryouth]

@MattW and @JNT BA ,

There is a serious issue with the t20 simulations of the engine. The simulations are 99% rigged in favour of the team batting second. No matter what the conditions or the team combination the team batting second will win the game 99% times. The lack of fall of wickets is a also a serious concern.

Below is the list of 10 matches simulated in the Indian t20 competition. 9/10 team batting second has won and in the only other game it was a tied match.
Average of team batting first is 94.63 at a run rate of 9.32 and for second it is 123 at 10.4 respectively. These are unreal numbers for t20.

Because of the wrong simulation in career, other players in the career are getting massive skill boosts as batsman impacting the overall experience of the career mode.

Requesting your team to kindly look into this and fix the issue.


Note : where ever 0 wickets were lost it was considered that 1 wicket was lost for mathematical reasons.

Averages

186.30​

20.00​

2.70​

188.50​

18.17​

2.40​

94.63​

9.32​

123.34​

10.40​

Match

Team 1

Team 2

Pitch Type

Hardness

Age

crack

Wear

First batting Score

overs

Wickets

Second Batting Score

Overs

Wickets

Winner

1 avg

1 r/r

2 avg

2 r/r

Difference

1​

DD

LSG

Dry

medium

1​

None

Normal

194​

20​

5​

195​

18.1​

1​

LSG

38.80​

9.70​

195.00​

10.77​

-1.07​

2​

PK

GT

Grassy / Dry

medium

5​

Light

Slow

186​

20​

4​

187​

17.1​

3​

GT

46.50​

9.30​

62.33​

10.94​

-1.64​

3​

KKR

RR

Standard

very soft

5​

Light

fast

194​

20​

0​

195​

18.2​

2​

RR

194.00​

9.70​

97.50​

10.71​

-1.01​

4​

MI

SRH

Grassy

Hard

1​

Heavy

Normal

179​

20​

3​

181​

17.4​

1​

MI

59.67​

8.95​

181.00​

10.40​

-1.45​

5​

LSG

SRH

Dusty

medium

1​

None

Normal

176​

20​

6​

178​

18.5​

4​

SRH

29.33​

8.80​

44.50​

9.62​

-0.82​

6​

RR

MI

Standard

soft

1​

Heavy

Slow

168​

20​

3​

172​

19.1​

7​

RR

56.00​

8.40​

24.57​

9.01​

-0.61​

7​

GT

KKR

Dry

medium

3​

Heavy

fast

178​

20​

3​

182​

17.4​

1​

KKR

59.33​

8.90​

182.00​

10.46​

-1.56​

8​

DD

PK

Standard

medium

4​

Light

Normal

188​

20​

3​

192​

16.5​

0​

PK

62.67​

9.40​

192.00​

11.64​

-2.24​

9​

PK

LSG

Grassy / Dusty

very soft

2​

Heavy

Slow

202​

20​

0​

205​

19.4​

1​

LSG

202.00​

10.10​

205.00​

10.57​

-0.47​

10​

KKR

DD

Grassy

soft

2​

Heavy

fast

198​

20​

0​

198​

20​

4​

DD

198.00​

9.90​

49.50​

9.90​

0.00​

For a real world comparison, the T20 World Cup in Australia (41 completed matches):

Average wickets lost in the 1st innings is 6.68
Average wickets lost in the 2nd innings is 6.71

This doesn't factor in DLS matches where teams would likely lose fewer wickets.

However, if you look at balls per wicket:

1st innings there was a wicket every 17.8 balls. 2nd innings that drops to one every 16.5 balls.
Looking at your numbers it's every 44 balls in the 1st innings and 46 in the second.

In the first innings teams were bowled out 7% of the time. 8 wickets was the most frequent number of wickets lost (27%) The fewest wickets lost was 2 and that happened once.
Teams in the second innings were bowled out 24% of the time which is the highest. Second highest in 5 wickets at 20%.

Batting first won 23 out of 41 matches. 56%

No team won having lost 8 or more wickets in the second innings (19 instances). But teams that batted first, that lost 8 or more wickets, won 6 out of 17.
Conversely, there were 16 instance where a team batting second lost five or fewer wickets and only once did that side lose. That was a DLS match. Batting first (losing five or fewer wickets) teams won 8 out 11 times.

T20 World Cup probably not as ideal to look at due to the disparity in team quality compared with a franchise tournament. But I haven't slept and can't be bothered putting in the time to look at the IPL.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I couldn't help looking more into this...

@Nithin Antony had three instances in ten matches of a team batting first and losing no wickets. Looking at the highest first wicket partnerships on Cricinfo, it's only happened four times (out of 112 partnerships of 150+) in all men's T20 matches. What's most remarkable is that two of them happened in the same week in 2022.

Spoiler

BUL vs GIBR, Valletta Cup 2022, 10th Match at Marsa, May 13, 2022 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 10th Match, BUL vs GIBR, Valletta Cup 2022 at Marsa Sports Club dated May 13, 2022.

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KKR vs LSG Cricket Scorecard, 66th Match at Navi Mumbai, May 18, 2022

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Kolkata Knight Riders vs Lucknow Super Giants 66th Match, cricket scorecard, Indian Premier League 2022 dated May 18, 2022.

www.espncricinfo.com

LahWh vs ISMBD Cricket Scorecard, 27th Match at Rawalpindi, November 24, 2017

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Lahore Whites vs Islamabad 27th Match, cricket scorecard, National T20 Cup 2017/18 dated November 24, 2017.

www.espncricinfo.com

Bngls vs RAJHI, Bangladesh Premier League 2012/13, 12th Match at Khulna, January 24, 2013 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 12th Match, Bngls vs RAJHI, Bangladesh Premier League 2012/13 at Sheikh Abu Naser Stadium, Khulna dated January 24, 2013.

www.espncricinfo.com

Special mention for Avinash Pai & Louis Bruce (from the first link) who also had an unbroken 173 partnership, also against Bulgaria, but Pai retired hurt.

Also, in 1691 women's T20 internationals there have been 100 partnerships of 91+. No wicket lost, batting first, has happened four times. Janet Rolands and Christina Gough did it twice in two days for Germany v Austria.

Spoiler

AUT-W vs GER-W, Germany Women in Austria 2020, 4th T20I at Lower Austria, August 14, 2020 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 4th T20I, AUT-W vs GER-W, Germany Women in Austria 2020 at Seebarn Cricket Centre, Lower Austria dated August 14, 2020.

www.espncricinfo.com

AUT-W vs GER-W Cricket Scorecard, 2nd T20I at Lower Austria, August 13, 2020

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd T20I, AUT-W vs GER-W, Germany Women in Austria 2020 at Seebarn Cricket Centre, Lower Austria dated August 13, 2020.

www.espncricinfo.com

PAK-W vs SA-W Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Match, Group A at Sylhet, March 23, 2014

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get Pakistan Women vs South Africa Women 2nd Match, Group A, cricket scorecard, Women's World T20 2013/14 dated March 23, 2014.

www.espncricinfo.com

NAM-W vs ZIM-W, Capricorn Women's Tri-Series 2022, 8th Match at Windhoek, April 24, 2022 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 8th Match, NAM-W vs ZIM-W, Capricorn Women's Tri-Series 2022 at Centre for Cricket Development Ground, Windhoek dated April 24, 2022.

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So, in conclusion, it should probably be a less common.

 

[Nithin Antony]

For a real world comparison, the T20 World Cup in Australia (41 completed matches):

Average wickets lost in the 1st innings is 6.68
Average wickets lost in the 2nd innings is 6.71

This doesn't factor in DLS matches where teams would likely lose fewer wickets.

However, if you look at balls per wicket:

1st innings there was a wicket every 17.8 balls. 2nd innings that drops to one every 16.5 balls.
Looking at your numbers it's every 44 balls in the 1st innings and 46 in the second.

In the first innings teams were bowled out 7% of the time. 8 wickets was the most frequent number of wickets lost (27%) The fewest wickets lost was 2 and that happened once.
Teams in the second innings were bowled out 24% of the time which is the highest. Second highest in 5 wickets at 20%.

Batting first won 23 out of 41 matches. 56%

No team won having lost 8 or more wickets in the second innings (19 instances). But teams that batted first, that lost 8 or more wickets, won 6 out of 17.
Conversely, there were 16 instance where a team batting second lost five or fewer wickets and only once did that side lose. That was a DLS match. Batting first (losing five or fewer wickets) teams won 8 out 11 times.

T20 World Cup probably not as ideal to look at due to the disparity in team quality compared with a franchise tournament. But I haven't slept and can't be bothered putting in the time to look at the IPL.

Data from IPL 2023 from the league matches where the entire game was played.

Average wickets fell in 1st innings - 6.35
Average wickets fell in 2nd innings - 6.20


55% games won by team batting first and 45% by team batting second.

Average 1st innings scores are 180 and average second innings scores are 165.

Wickets Lost	1st batting	2nd Batting
1 to 3	11.59 %	14.49 %
4 to 7	57.97 %	52.17 %
8 to 10	30.43 %	33.33 %

Average runs scored by batsman in 1st innings and 2nd innings is 34 runs per wicket.

If somehow the simulated scores can bring in variety without making it seem like scripted the overall experience playing the game will be better. Now I am forced not to play career mode because the t20 format is broken and it makes almost all top order players 99 batting rating in one or two seasons because of the broken simulation.

 

[KingsPunjabIsaac]

Has there been anymore xbox patches? Looks like I'm stuck with this game as Microsoft don't want to give a refund lol

 

[Hester]

Bowlers with longer run ups are not visible on the screen with broadcast camera. Is this a new issue? Never had this issue before.

View attachment 286460

I had this in C22 with a few custom made stadiums

 

[Mr Snrub]

There seems to be a problem with the games player rating system. In all of the international 2000's sides which I have skilled, the players have been given skill ratings which are fairly realistic, with various skills depending on the player ranging from the 60s to the high 80s and rarely above or below that if a player is particularly strong or weak in a certain area.

For example I have Andrew Flintoff with an overall rating of 83, which I wouldn't expect to be too over the top for one of the great all rounders from England. Steve Harmison at 82, James Anderson at 81 and Graeme Swann at 81. They are of course very slightly influenced by how good or bad they are with the bat.

It's very frustrating to see all of those players with the 99 bowling rating in the game. None of them have a single 99 rating anywhere within the skills I have given them. Most of their bowling skills are in the 80s. It's a common problem in the game that players are rated far too highly for their overall bowling within the game and there is no way to check their individual bowling or batting ratings when you create these players.

This spills over into the overall team ratings. I have the England 2000's squad with an overall rating of 85. On the play now screen underneath that the game has given them an overall batting rating of 94 and an overall bowling rating of 99 but a fielding rating of 65. None of that remotely relates to the skilling of the side.

Pakistan have an overall rating of 84, but batting of 93, bowling of 98 and fielding of 64.

Definitely something that could fairly be described as broken.

 

[smurfygray86]

There seems to be a problem with the games player rating system. In all of the international 2000's sides which I have skilled, the players have been given skill ratings which are fairly realistic, with various skills depending on the player ranging from the 60s to the high 80s and rarely above or below that if a player is particularly strong or weak in a certain area.

For example I have Andrew Flintoff with an overall rating of 83, which I wouldn't expect to be too over the top for one of the great all rounders from England. Steve Harmison at 82, James Anderson at 81 and Graeme Swann at 81. They are of course very slightly influenced by how good or bad they are with the bat.

It's very frustrating to see all of those players with the 99 bowling rating in the game. None of them have a single 99 rating anywhere within the skills I have given them. Most of their bowling skills are in the 80s. It's a common problem in the game that players are rated far too highly for their overall bowling within the game and there is no way to check their individual bowling or batting ratings when you create these players.

This spills over into the overall team ratings. I have the England 2000's squad with an overall rating of 85. On the play now screen underneath that the game has given them an overall batting rating of 94 and an overall bowling rating of 99 but a fielding rating of 65. None of that remotely relates to the skilling of the side.

Pakistan have an overall rating of 84, but batting of 93, bowling of 98 and fielding of 64.

Definitely something that could fairly be described as broken.

Not sure if related on my post the other day some of the Aussie batters with 99 ratings in judgement etc no wonder I’m not getting any genuine nice looking wickets or even a chance of one like bowling to robots at times nothing happens except making sure they stick to the run rate

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Not sure if related on my post the other day some of the Aussie batters with 99 ratings in judgement etc no wonder I’m not getting any genuine nice looking wickets or even a chance of one like bowling to robots at times nothing happens except making sure they stick to the run rate

I was looking at some skills this morning and I couldn't really make sense of it.

 

[Nithin Antony]

I was looking at some skills this morning and I couldn't really make sense of it.

To add context to this I did some testing in career mode. Unfortunately I did not take screenshots or write down the actual values. However while playing as a rookie career player for Kerala in India my #3 in t20s was a player called Rohan kunnumal and my career players was the opening batsman. Usually with the regular simulation Rohans batting rating was jumping from early 80s to 99s in the second season. So I started a fresh career mode and made him run out as soon as he came to bat.

In the previous career mode he averaged 100+ at a strike rate of 170+ while in the new career mode he averaged 10+ at a strike rate of 120. And in the next season his batting rating was better than the last season (thanks to his decent LA and FC numbers) but not in 99s.

Will try to do the same thing with screenshots next time.

So my hypothesis is that the skewed T20 simulation is making top order domestic players as good or better than a Virat Kohli or a Steve smith in one season which is not right.

 

[blockerdave]

I’ve not had this skills issue. My teams seem to be coming out alright.

My biggest issue at the minute is the pitch differences seem to have disappeared. On a grassy wicket I am getting movement but it’s not causing the AI batsmen any trouble, they’re cantering along 4 an over easily.

Before the latest patch, I felt like the outcome was influenced by the pitch

 

[Nithin Antony]

I’ve not had this skills issue. My teams seem to be coming out alright.

My biggest issue at the minute is the pitch differences seem to have disappeared. On a grassy wicket I am getting movement but it’s not causing the AI batsmen any trouble, they’re cantering along 4 an over easily.

Before the latest patch, I felt like the outcome was influenced by the pitch

If you are using the default sliders it will play like that. I've seperate sliders for different formats and it gives me variety of results for first class and limited over matches. T20 no matter what I do the simulation is broken. Try putting slider or run rate to 18/20 for first class/test matches and see if you can see any difference.

 

[Crassus]

Data from IPL 2023 from the league matches where the entire game was played.

Average wickets fell in 1st innings - 6.35
Average wickets fell in 2nd innings - 6.20


55% games won by team batting first and 45% by team batting second.

Average 1st innings scores are 180 and average second innings scores are 165.

Wickets Lost	1st batting	2nd Batting
1 to 3	11.59 %	14.49 %
4 to 7	57.97 %	52.17 %
8 to 10	30.43 %	33.33 %

Average runs scored by batsman in 1st innings and 2nd innings is 34 runs per wicket.

If somehow the simulated scores can bring in variety without making it seem like scripted the overall experience playing the game will be better. Now I am forced not to play career mode because the t20 format is broken and it makes almost all top order players 99 batting rating in one or two seasons because of the broken simulation.

Interesting findings and id be very interested to see @JNT BA and @MattW responses. My own personal experience has been very similar in the small amount of t20s I've played.

What I would add to that as well is that in 50 over cricket the AI always goes about it the same. They really prod around for ages and then go absolutely ballistic at the end. In those last 5 overs or so literally anything you bowl at them is going the distance or finding gaps so it takes the fun and skill away. You know it doesn't matter if you bowl a slow yorker or a wide bouncer it's going for 4 or 6. Yet contrast this to the start of the innings and I can bowl maidens for fun.

It could just do with being a bit more balanced and have a bit more spontaneity. Sometimes teams just go for it all the way through, sometimes they lose early wickets and have to dig in, sometimes there's a collapse and the lower order just try and bat out the overs. It doesn't follow the same script in real life so shouldn't here.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

To add context to this I did some testing in career mode. Unfortunately I did not take screenshots or write down the actual values. However while playing as a rookie career player for Kerala in India my #3 in t20s was a player called Rohan kunnumal and my career players was the opening batsman. Usually with the regular simulation Rohans batting rating was jumping from early 80s to 99s in the second season. So I started a fresh career mode and made him run out as soon as he came to bat.

In the previous career mode he averaged 100+ at a strike rate of 170+ while in the new career mode he averaged 10+ at a strike rate of 120. And in the next season his batting rating was better than the last season (thanks to his decent LA and FC numbers) but not in 99s.

Will try to do the same thing with screenshots next time.

So my hypothesis is that the skewed T20 simulation is making top order domestic players as good or better than a Virat Kohli or a Steve smith in one season which is not right.

Back on Cricket 19 when I ran a simmed tournament I did a deep dive on the stats. Comparing them with real life, the top order players just bat for longer and score a higher percentage of runs. So, if this is still the case it wouldn't surprise me. There were a few other odd quirks too. Can't remember them all, but pretty sure spinners dominated.

Just looking at the results there was a good spread of results regardless of batting and plenty of wickets were lost.

Of course when I say 'simmed' in this context it's running the match as AI v AI. I'm assuming it produces fairly different results to just external simming. It was still predictable at times but we also had many great moments. Such as Pujarageddon at Mar-a-Lago when @Wavelberry outgunned @passwordistaco in possibly the greatest cricket match ever.