Darren Pattinson and Andy Murray - English sporting hypocrisy?

Are England hypocrites? (Note the absence of an unfunny random third option, it's enough with that!)


  • Total voters
    17
What's wrong with that exactly? Murray is British. The British media is pretty much completely run in England, so the English get most of his hype as well as the Scottish. Don't really know where this is going, it is like claiming a Tasmanian isn't Australian.
 
I'm interested to hear from you Colin. Are you actually Scottish born, are your parents Scottish etc? Or are you really English just living there or your heritage is English etc?

If you're the former, do you not feel more proud of a Scottish achievement than an English achievement under the banner of the UK?

Sure we can accept that the UK makes sense, certainly I may have underestimated its economical value, but are you all really prepared to say that a Scot is yours to barrack for? Personally I think you can't have it both ways, and in sport you English certainly overestimate its value.

I knew ability played a role, but there was plenty of Pattinson desecrated the English test team by not being English calls.

Scottish parents and live in Scotland. Brought up and born in England however so I have a shared identity. As you might have guessed I'm not big on the small-minded nationalism or certain English or certain Scots and describe myself as British and European.
As far as Murray goes I'm quite happy to cheer for him regardless of whether he is English or Scottish as a Brit.
 
Dean you been smoking something? No disrespect, but how the feck do you know what England/Scotland is like without actually living here? There are a few people who want Scotland independent from England, yet everyone in Britain (which does exist) wants people like Andrew Murray, Chris Hoy, Lewis Hamilton, David Coulthard to do well. I really am struggling to see what point you are trying to make?
 
I'm not saying it doesn't exist (maybe I am, but that's not important). I recognise that legally, Great Britain exists. What I am saying is that it is irrelevant in the modern day. England and Scotland are different countries.

As for your other point, it is not true that Great Britain is for individual sports people, there is an inconsistency there too. In the Commonwealth Games they compete separately, but in the Olympics they compete together. And my above, somewhat unconvincing example is the same, Lawn Bowls is an individual game which they compete in separate countries too.

This has nothing to do with the Olympics, I'm asking you why you bagged the crap out of an English test cricketer for not being English enough but you'll still embrace a guy who has less association with England. As for not being good enough, that's a bit rich considering your current pace attack.

And what on Earth does dicked on us mean?
Guess what, over in Aus you may love the commonwealth games and lawn bowls but here we concern ourselves with good sports and it is the case that in almost every individual sport that is capable of having a bit of public interest we support any Brit aside from ones which are contested only by Brits like darts or snooker.

I didn't bag Pattinson at all. Maybe because he played for faggy Nottingham I might take the piss but Pattinson could have been English and would have had the piss taken. He was completely undeserving of selection. So is Ian Bell and he gets the piss taken.

Quite frankly I really don't care about Murray. If he wins then good, well done, but the British tennis organization or whatever the hell it's called is a joke anyway. Djokovic is the man.
 
Has anyone mentioned the fact that Andrew Symonds is from Birmingham yet? ;)
 
Guess what, over in Aus you may love the commonwealth games and lawn bowls but here we concern ourselves with good sports and it is the case that in almost every individual sport that is capable of having a bit of public interest we support any Brit aside from ones which are contested only by Brits like darts or snooker.

I didn't bag Pattinson at all. Maybe because he played for faggy Nottingham I might take the piss but Pattinson could have been English and would have had the piss taken. He was completely undeserving of selection. So is Ian Bell and he gets the piss taken.

Quite frankly I really don't care about Murray. If he wins then good, well done, but the British tennis organization or whatever the hell it's called is a joke anyway. Djokovic is the man.
No we don't care about the Commonwealth Games or the Lawn Bowls (well some people do care about the Comm games but I don't) and personally I don't care much about the Olympics either.

In fact, one would say from this information that in the minor events England goes on its own, but that in the major ones it needs to borrow from the rest of the UK.

aus5892 added 15 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Dean you been smoking something? No disrespect, but how the feck do you know what England/Scotland is like without actually living here? There are a few people who want Scotland independent from England, yet everyone in Britain (which does exist) wants people like Andrew Murray, Chris Hoy, Lewis Hamilton, David Coulthard to do well. I really am struggling to see what point you are trying to make?
The point I'm trying to make is one that you just strengthened - it's hypocritical that on the one hand you have people who are English or Scottish and hate the other country, but at the same time everyone jumps on the same bandwagon for tennis (but not football or cricket or rugby).

My point (for which I used a bit of exaggeration and humour in the first post to illustrate, but which has gone over the heads of some of you who have interpreted my calling Britain a made up land as a serious statement) is that you should have to choose, Britain or England or Scotland, not in politics but in sport. England is a country, as is Australia, as is New Zealand, as is Spain. The United Kingdom is a region, or sovereign state, but it is not a country in the same way that the aforementioned countries are. It's an unfair advantage, and hypocrisy unless you combine them in every sport.

aus5892 added 0 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

Dean you been smoking something? No disrespect, but how the feck do you know what England/Scotland is like without actually living here? There are a few people who want Scotland independent from England, yet everyone in Britain (which does exist) wants people like Andrew Murray, Chris Hoy, Lewis Hamilton, David Coulthard to do well. I really am struggling to see what point you are trying to make?
The point I'm trying to make is one that you just strengthened - it's hypocritical that on the one hand you have people who are English or Scottish and hate the other country, but at the same time everyone jumps on the same bandwagon for tennis (but not football or cricket or rugby).

My point (for which I used a bit of exaggeration and humour in the first post to illustrate, but which has gone over the heads of some of you who have interpreted my calling Britain a made up land as a serious statement) is that you should have to choose, Britain or England or Scotland, not in politics but in sport. England is a country, as is Australia, as is New Zealand, as is Spain. The United Kingdom is a region, or sovereign state, but it is not a country in the same way that the aforementioned countries are. It's an unfair advantage, and hypocrisy unless you combine them in every sport.

aus5892 added 3 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

Has anyone mentioned the fact that Andrew Symonds is from Birmingham yet? ;)
He's about as English as Andy Murray is, he only lived there for 2 months.
 
:laugh I am enjoying it!

BTW, Stuart Clark's parents are from India. :happy:happy:happy
 
If anything, Britain is dominant compared to England.
 
No such problems for us, even if we united with Pakistan, SL and Bangladesh and participated in the Olympics, in fact any other sports except Kabaddi and Hockey, our addition to the medal tally would be Zilch.
 
I'm loving this thread.

Although this post is off-topic, but The quality of posting has never declined. It's just how greatly people change/divert from one topic to other.

Back on topic. I don't really think all of england was disappointed and upset with Pattinson's decision. It's just the wrong time where controversies were high and until his father said he's a "proud" aussie. Well, that'll heat the pan up a bit which is already scorching with the mislead decision to choose Darren over Sidebottom due to injury in the 2nd test match against south-africa, it did. Also, i particularly don't see a poll on these both. People might feel there's similarity between these two, but these are different and variety of cases.

Andy Murray is British, Scottish. That makes it all. But Pattinson may hold english passport. But his family is typically australian. Of course, what big thing that clears the air is that Darren's Brother played for Australia U-19's in Malaysia.
 
Dean who rely have no idea what you are talking about. Yes we have seperate teams in football, cricket and rugby but our country is called UNITED KINGDOM. That includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland plus islands such as Guernsey and Jersey. For someone unknown reason we decide to call our sports teams Great Britain (which does not include Northern Ireland) instead of United Kingdom. Our Olympic team for example is called Great Britain & Northern Ireland. This causes confusion as to who Northern Ireland sportspeople should represent (I believe they play for Ireland in rugby but in tennis they can choose to play for either).

We share the same goverment (we have a Scottish Prime minister). We have the same passports.

Also it is certainly not true that we all hate each other. I will support Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland when they play football, cricket and rugby except of course when they are playing England. When, for example, England, Scotland Wales & Ireland unite to play for the British and Irish Lions, I will support all the players, what am I going to do just support the English ones?

In tennis we play under they flag of Great Britain. This means we play Davis Cup and Fed Cup together and when the players play tournaments as individuals they do so under the name GREAT BRITAIN. Scotland is part of Great Britain so I support Andy Murray and any other Scottish player there is.

wolf added 3 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

I am from the old school of thought in which your nationality is where you or your parents were born, not where you live.

Why? If I was born in a country and, say, after six months moved to a different country and spent the rest of my life there which nationality do you think I would consider myself to be?
 
You would say you were from the place you moved to. I would say you were from the place you were born.
 
You would say you were from the place you moved to. I would say you were from the place you were born.

Why? If you moved after six months you would have no recolection of being in the place you were born. Sure be proud of your roots, your descendants etc could be born there but you may not even know the language of your country so why would you consider yourself that nationality?

And if we are talking sportspeople if you move to a different country at a young age you are obviously going to have to have the help of the national association that you moved to. Take the example of Laura Robson; she was born in Australia to an Aussie mother but a Biritish farther. and moved to Singapore at 18 months. She then moved to Britain at the age of 4. When it was clear she was very talented at tennis she obviously needed the support of the LTA (the Australian Tennis Asscoiation being thousands of miles away and powerless to do anything) so she has used the training facilities the LTA has given her all her life. What is she going to do then I wonder? Represent the country she spent 18 months of her life in or represent the country that she has made her home and given her lots of support in terms of money and facilities?

Sport can in many ways unite a nation; but can also cause hatred with other nations and bring these nationalistic views.
 

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