England in Australia

[Sureshot]

Pretty even day, this pitch isn't doing much for anyone, a draw with a slight chance of an England win if more than one bowler can perform tomorrow.

 

[puddleduck]

I am extremely pessimistic; We are playing the most useless spinner in existence so is no chance of us bolwing Aus out again, and if we follow on the they can score runs again and build a healthy lead whereas we will probably collapse when chasing.

Whilst I, and plenty of other posters here, have felt the same pessimism over Giles selection it shouldn't detract from a good performance from the rest of the bowlers. Hoggys bowling enough overs to fill the void left by Giles ineffectiveness, whilst Harmy, Freddie and Jimmy all bowled pretty well. If Australia get anywhere near a position in which they can try and push on, the pitch has shown that with some disicplined bowling it's very hard to score quickly. In fact in that situation Giles reverting to his over the wicket into the rough dross is very hard to score quickly off.

I think your letting your dissapointment at no Monty, and trust me I feel that too, cloud your judgement here a little.

If you're right however, I will cry

 

[Sureshot]

Jimmy might do better if he pitched it up, can help to get swing. I can see Giles struggling to break double figures this series, even if he plays all 5. Which he will.

 

[plympilgrim]

we just as well play 4 fast bowlers instead cos giles isn't bowling well, fletch won't play panesar, so we play with 4 quickies

 

[evertonfan]

we just as well play 4 fast bowlers instead cos giles isn't bowling well, fletch won't play panesar, so we play with 4 quickies

What a daft idea. If Fletcher drops Giles then he'll replace him with Panesar; He won't go and play 4 seamers because even he isn't that stupid.

 

[plympilgrim]

well its only a suggestion

 

[puddleduck]

I thought he bowled ok Jimmy, although I think if we have to have a number 8 that bats the Mahmood/Panesar combo looks more useful than the Giles/Anderson one. Considering there was next to no swing he bowled with good pace around 86-88mph consistently. If the ball had been a dukes moving about a bit, I think he would be looking very dangerous at the moment.

Just wondering did anyone see the interview with Kevin Shine? Nothing wrong with it really, except the fact that England as a team seem to think that international cricket is the place for Anderson and Giles to bowl with remodelled actions after injuries. Since when was test cricket a place for gaining match fitness and working on technique?

 

[evertonfan]

Since Fletcher took over Puddlester.

 

[Sureshot]

Well Jimmy got more match fitness in the warm ups, but Giles didn't even play each game which confused me. Giles just looks so slow in the field, he won't be as good with catching, especially if he has to get to an awkward position.

 

[evertonfan]

It's a shame he'll be there for the entire series, VB series and very possibly the World Cup. Why can't Fletcher see that he's mediocre? It truly baffles me; 1 person in the whole thinks that Giles is a better player and we have the misfortune of that 1 person being out coach.

 

[puddleduck]

It's a shame he'll be there for the entire series, VB series and very possibly the World Cup. Why can't Fletcher see that he's mediocre? It truly baffles me; 1 person in the whole thinks that Giles is a better player and we have the misfortune of that 1 person being out coach.

Two players, I know you have an irrational hatred of Fletcher, but if Freddie had wanted Panesar, then Panesar would be playing.

Whilst he has made some decisions that many of us disagree with lately, and I do worry that his last year does not reflect well on him, English cricket still owes him a lot, compared to the doldrums we were in for almost my entire childhood, the last 4 years under Fletcher have been unbelievable.

I was thinking about it, what could possibly have caused the strange selection issues recently, and was wondering if the following has any merit to it -

Fletcher had outlined this Ashes in Australia as the realistic series in which we might win them back. Team England had a long-term plan that involved batting long, and some dangerous quick bowlers. They spent years working towards it, and for 2-3 years there wasn't a single test side that we didn't beat. The plan that they had layed out was clearly working.

The Ashes came, and to a lot of peoples surprise it worked. A series or two before they had realistically aimed to match Australia they had beaten them.

However the injuries then kicked in, and it seems to have been difficult for Fletcher, yet the players that were called in have for the most part done superbly, the likes of Cook, Collingwood, Panesar (and to a lesser extent Bell) have all prospered. However when the original players that had done the business returned, it is then that Fletcher seems to have had trouble working out whether he goes for form, or past performances. Does the plan change? Does he sacrifice the slightly shorter tail with a more dangerous spin bowler? Will it work better or worse? It worked with a 5th bowler who can bat, that's the fact, whether it will without it is unfortunately speculation until proven otherwise.

Basically I've lost my way a little towards the end here, as I'm no longer entirely sure exactly I am trying to say, feel free to add your opinions chaps, lets keep the debate flowing.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Fletch is playing safe? Panesar playing could go spectacularly wrong too.
On the other hand, he is saving him. A secret weapon. Let him get used to Aussie conditions in the nets, have KP and co. attack him, prepare a game plan by watching the Aussies bat, then strike?

 

[evertonfan]

I'll keep it short; Every coach has there sell-by date, and let's just say Fletcher's out of date. He's worked wonders for team England in the past, but his loyalty to certain players has gotten beyond a joke now. He's always been clueless about ODI's though.

 

[puddleduck]

I think what I was trying to get at with that post was what exactly could be Fletchers, and Flintoffs, reasoning behind the selections. It's been fairly clear through this entire thread that everyone, including myself disagrees with his choice in this situation. So what is going through their mind? What could they be thinking?

So no I don't think he's necessarily looking at it in the sense of holding Panesar back. Although I certainly think they have the thought that he could go spectacularly wrong, maybe not even him but the entire balance of the team could.

 

[evertonfan]

I think the problem is that Fletch is too stubborn; I didn't complain when he played Giles at Brisbane because it's fair to give him a chance, but playing him again after an unsuccesful Test match baffled me, especially as we have someone who we koe is better waiting in the wings. What I don't like is that he will keep playing Giles until he has a good game, almost as if to say, "See, my selection worked wonders".