England in Australia

[JamesyJames3]

Honestly, even though Read has ability batting in tests, his recent form with the bat and gloves looked remarkably similar to Jones lacklustre performances that saw him dropped. If Prior is better than these two with the bat and his glovework is even close (surely it cant be worse?!) then England need to look beyond medicore and start realising that it takes 11 men playing at their best to beat the Aussies. I also remember watching the last ashes and was shocked at how bad Jones was. I guess im used to top quality glovesmen.

The number 1 priority is making no errors behind the stumps, this will be crucial. Secondly you need someone who can bat with the tail and get at least a 50.

I do not see Jones doing this, and i was certainly unimpressed with Read who seemed out of place at this level.

Surely in all England county cricket there is a better option???

As for Harmison, this ashes series will make or break him.

Out of place? He got his two top test scores out of the maximum 4 innings he had. And his glovework was outstanding. I think you might be thinking of someone else mate

 

[puddleduck]

Indeed, he fulfilled every one of your criteria in your post Octavius in his only 2 test matches since his return!

He certainly didn't have a good Champions Trophy, but you'd be hard pressed to find an England player that has done anything consistently in ODI cricket for almost 5 years.

Not to mention James, that in each of his innings in those 4 tests, he hit the 3rd highest score in every innings. So batting at 7, he out-batted every other batsman every time! Jones was dropped because he averaged 15 in his last year of Test Cricket, Read was dropped for averaging 42 and for taking some stumpings and looking solid behind the stumps in the Tests v Pakistan. I still can't believe it

 

[Octavius]

Out of place? He got his two top test scores out of the maximum 4 innings he had. And his glovework was outstanding. I think you might be thinking of someone else mate

i watched every game he played in the champions trophy and he looked like a duck out of water.

i realise that test cricket is a very different scenario, but his basic keeping skills were as bad as Jones and his batting was worse, albeit this was in ODI cricket.

i am a great believer in fielding your best side based on current or recent form. I am afraid that Reads recent form has indicated a need for him to be replaced.

Lou Vincent got 200 in one of his last test matches, that does not mean hes in top form!

Indeed, he fulfilled every one of your criteria in your post Octavius in his only 2 test matches since his return!

He certainly didn't have a good Champions Trophy, but you'd be hard pressed to find an England player that has done anything consistently in ODI cricket for almost 5 years.

Not to mention James, that in each of his innings in those 4 tests, he hit the 3rd highest score in every innings. So batting at 7, he out-batted every other batsman every time! Jones was dropped because he averaged 15 in his last year of Test Cricket, Read was dropped for averaging 42 and for taking some stumpings and looking solid behind the stumps in the Tests v Pakistan. I still can't believe it

I admit i have very little knowledge of Read in test matches. If he has those skills in the test arena, he should be retained over Jones.

my main point was;

both keepers suck

they should be replaced.

 

[irottev]

Monty is going to be interesting. I hope they play him. I want to see him on an unresponsive pitch. His warm-up's havn't been flash, but of course they don't mean everything.

I do have a feeling that England will use Giles. Yes, for batting but also because the pitch won't be spinning a great deal and if thats the case and Australia take Monty on, it won't be very good. Giles is less dependant on spin and more on accuracy and decieving the batsman with pace and flight etc.

Will be interesting to see who they go with. England used Giles last time and he did his job. Nothing extra special but some sound performances.

 

[puddleduck]

i watched every game he played in the champions trophy and he looked like a duck out of water.

Yes, he had a poor series, but as we both said find an England player that didn't? Does that mean they all need to be dropped from the longer format after a poor Champions Trophy? All of 3 games by the way!

i realise that test cricket is a very different scenario, but his basic keeping skills were as bad as Jones and his batting was worse, albeit this was in ODI cricket.

He is in fact an excellent gloveman, however bad he played during that series, he has consistently been the best gloveman in English County Cricket for the last 2 years. He was also never dropped from the Test Side originally due to his keeping, which was at the time also excellent. It was his batting back then that forced them to try Jones.

i am a great believer in fielding your best side based on current or recent form. I am afraid that Reads recent form has indicated a need for him to be replaced.

So you are saying that Odi cricket should dicate who gets picked, and who doesn't in Test Cricket? Because if that was the case England would constantly be dropping their match winners for the start of each test series following on from appaling Odi performances either preceeding it, or following on from their last one.

The simple facts at the moment are that Jones averaged 15 with the bat for the year of cricket that then saw him dropped. He did seem to improve with the gloves, but on returing to the side at the start of this tour has dropped 2 chances, and missed two stumpings in 3 games. Those missed chances have thus far totalled around 180 runs added. With the easiest of the lot costing 85 alone.

Since returing as the supposedly safer option with the bat, he has managed a blazing 59 runs at a superb average of 29.5 with one not out. That not out was a blistering 13 not out off of 41 balls without a single boundary. Clearly the form man then.

Compare all that to Reads two tests against Pakistan in his comeback - 38 and 55 in his first test back, followed by 33 in his only bat in that last controversial test.

You said you don't know much about him in test cricket, I'm guessing that means you basically only saw his 3 games in the Champions Trophy. Would you have never played Warne again after his poor start to his career against India? Not saying they are in the same class, but surely you should see a little more of a player before judging them?

End of the day, there is no doubt in pretty much anyones mind that Read is a far better keeper, and when it comes to standing up to a spinner he makes Jones look almost schoolboy. The only doubt is whether Jones is the better batsman, and I think technically he is, but he has shown no form at all over the last year, didn't impress when sent back to Kent to find runs at the end of last season, and has yet to impress since being unbelievably restored to the side at the start of this tour. The justification for dropping Read this time around is fairly thin, and all in all unless Jones keeps at least fairly well and provides 2 or more scores over 50 in the series, there will be plenty of "what ifs" regarding starting the series, or at the least giving him a warmup game!

Jones so in form that he needed all 3 warmup games :

edit - his last scores in international cricket - 5,1,3,11*,4,19,6,18,16,8

 

[aussie_ben91]

He certainly didn't have a good Champions Trophy, but you'd be hard pressed to find an England player that has done anything consistently in ODI cricket for almost 5 years.

What about Kevin Pietersen? Ranked number 3 in the world ICC ODI batting rankings. A system which works like this...

The LG ICC Player Rankings are a sophisticated moving average. Players are rated on a scale of 0 to 1000 points. If a player?s performance is improving on his past record, his points increase; if his performance is declining his points will go down.

 

[puddleduck]

What about Kevin Pietersen? Ranked number 3 in the world ICC ODI batting rankings. A system which works like this...

Hard pressed doesn't mean you wouldn't find one. Other than various spells from Tresco, Kp, and sometimes Freddie, England have hardly churned out a conveyer belt of Odi talent!

 

[angryangy]

Hard pressed doesn't mean you wouldn't find one. Other than various spells from Tresco, Kp, and sometimes Freddie, England have hardly churned out a conveyer belt of Odi talent!

And when players like Dalrymple and Yardy make the side, I can only feel that they're not even trying to find good players.

 

[cricketmad09]

Dalrymple looks like a good find. But Yardy wont be a future player. Has incredible stats now, but that is only because he has ONLY bowled on dodgy sub-continent pitches in the middle of the innings and when the batters arent attacking at all. Won't last. He is just a typical "spare parts" player who has potential to make runs, but doesnt make enough, and is reasonably economical, but doesnt take enough wickets with the ball.

 

[Simbazz]

Blackwell amazes me, as he is no were near the side anymore, yet he is still a good player

Many would disagree, but he has more experience than Yardy and Dalrymple put together, and can spin the ball and bat, at an international level

 

[cricketmad09]

He is probably out of favour, because he is absolubte crap with the bat at international level, averaging only 14, even though his bowling seems to be alright.

 

[evertonfan]

Blackwell isn't in the side because he's still injured Simon. Plus, he's way out of his depth at Test level.

 

[Simbazz]

Blackwell isn't in the side because he's still injured Simon. Plus, he's way out of his depth at Test level.

Blackwell WAS injured

He has now recovered, he actually got in the last couple of games for Somerset

 

[potholes]

Tally ho! zippity zap!

Roll on the first ashes test! Should be a corker.

I live just down the road from the Gabba, and i could swear i've seen hire cars full of soldiers of the army o' the barmy. There is definitely an increased english presence in Woolloongabba- No doubt they're trying to find a pub that doesn't smell of piss and puke- not an easy task in south-east brisbane.

So, how do ppl see this test shaping up? Monty in for Giles? Tait in, or JOhnson? The number of lovely brissy chicks to recieve erotic txt messages from the hugh hefner of the cricket world? So many interesting points to ponder....

Though i must say, as an aussie (an english-born one) I really hope the social residuum who feel that racism is necessary crowd behaviour are unable to afford tickets for the match so I might be spared a degree of reflected shame. C'mon Mont!

Weather looks good (it's only rained about twice this year and one of those times was a few days ago -hailed and everything). Dunno if this bodes well or not- It was bloody hot today, with a sky bereft of all but one or two clouds *Insert funny Fast Show skit about Nimbo Cumulus (SCORCHIO!)* AHA!

That's my 25 cents!

Oh btw...Pietersen (i think that's how it's spelled) and Strauss are in top form, eh! We are going to have our hands full with them methinks.

 

[Simbazz]

After this post potholes im ready to sit down and watch the Ashes

Are you a TV pundit? Boycott?

I loved reading your post, you brought humour into you views of the first test

But i totally agree, anyone giving Monty a hard time, or even being racist should be shot!