England In India - October 2011/12

[MUFC1987]

You still don't pick an uncapped player who hasn't played a competitive game after coming back from a reasonably big injury.

I never said he should be picked! I just pointed out that if he's in Hampshire's squad for their biggest the game of the year, then he's not injured, or still suffering from the effects of said injury.

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All about the balance, Bell is good enough for ODI's, but he needs to be 3. It has to be between him and Trott.

Like you said before, Bell isn't a number 6 and he's not better than what we have at 3, 4 and 5, therefore for me, he's not good enough to be in the squad. I'd rather see Bopara given a chance to fill in for KP up the order. He deserves a shot at his natural position in the order.

 

[Sureshot]

Though of course Bell will be 4 this series, so who knows, might find it suits him better.

It's about there, right balance is needed, core of the players are fine imo and of course chances for the likes of Stokes and Dernbach to nail down their places. Want to see Samit given a series as well.

 

[cricket_icon]

KP is being rested for the ODIs, are the selectors serious? England haven't got much cricket after this series leading up to Pakistan in January.

 

[jacobfelix]

I was reading this news here in a local daily which states - Gambhir has eye-sight problems.....He's unable to see the TV & mobile Worse...in the nets he is unable to see the line & length of the ball

 

[Addy]

LMAO whatelse one can expect from Indian media

 

[Paki007]

whatelse one can expect from Indian media

Don't you watch ExpressNews?

 

[SachBro]

Eng shouldn't take India lightly in the up-coming ODI series, its a completely different team. Dont forget India is a much better outfit in ODIs than their Test counterparts. Besides, test games require Patience, Technique and temperament; thing youngsters don't have in plenty(blame it on t20). The only reason why Yuvi, Virat, Raina and Rohit look good in ODIs coz their thick edges go for boundaries past third man whereas they get caught in gully when they play tests. India's bowling should also improve, its a pity Munaf didn't play tests, his track record against Eng is pretty good.

 

[SaiSrini]

Eng shouldn't take India lightly in the up-coming ODI series, its a completely different team. Dont forget India is a much better outfit in ODIs than their Test counterparts. Besides, test games require Patience, Technique and temperament; thing youngsters don't have in plenty(blame it on t20). The only reason why Yuvi, Virat, Raina and Rohit look good in ODIs coz their thick edges go for boundaries past third man whereas they get caught in gully when they play tests. India's bowling should also improve, its a pity Munaf didn't play tests, his track record against Eng is pretty good.

Munaf shouldnt play the ODI's too. Praveen, RP Singh and Varun Aaron should be starting the attack against England (if I was Dhoni). We need to blood Aaron soon because he brings express pace, something not seen much in Indian fast bowling. Only if given proper chances in helpful conditions can he grow.

 

[Owzat]

Though of course Bell will be 4 this series, so who knows, might find it suits him better.

It's about there, right balance is needed, core of the players are fine imo and of course chances for the likes of Stokes and Dernbach to nail down their places. Want to see Samit given a series as well.

They need to define roles, it strikes me England just pick (some) players and they go wherever there's a space. What they need to do is strike the balance and fill the space with the right player, not just pick someone who bats and bowls a bit, or is a decent batsman who bowls a bit because there's a space.

Collingwood was dropped, but is the right kind of player to have in the squad as a batsman who is a more than useful bowler and good fielder. In England's quest for an all-rounder they are putting anyone and everyone in down the order, the top six being batsmen, the bowlers being picked and then "oh, let's try Wright/Yardy/Patel/a.n.other in that slot". I'd rather they had Swann, Broad and Bresnan at 7-9, although BA and I agree we'd rather see two separate teams for the two separate formats.

The other way they could fix the number seven problem is if two of the top order were good enough bowlers, say Collingwood and Patel. That is a bit risky as they're not always going to work, but then Anderson and others can often be expensive as well.

re Bell, I've outlined why his inclusion is frustrating. Trying to utilise a top Test player in the shorter format when the side is packed with batsmen averaging modestly in ODIs at an SR of 70-80. Could be even worse with KP rested, Cook will probably let loose like Strauss tried to and we just have to hope it doesn't affect Test form - another reason not to play players across formats.


If England do win this series mightn't there be the shadow of doubt, disinterest after a poor Test series? With hours spent out in the field, players who have had big pay days in shorter formats may just wonder about the point, like n*bhead neville who reckons playing for England (football) was a waste of time. Compared to winning trophies for the mancs he was bound to feel not winning and having to try hard anyway was a waste of time, I wonder if the lack of money in Tests and lack of England success in World Cups mightn't impact on the respective teams this coming series........................................ If you win at darts and snooker, but lose as much as you win at golf and tennis, which do you think you'd play more....................?

 

[War]

I think Chris Woakes should have been in both squads.

 

[RoboRocks]

Disappointed that Taylor didn't make the squads after performing for the Lions. Hopefully he'll replace Bell in the future, who has yet to convince me he's an ODI player.

I'm still skeptical about Cook and Trott in the top three. They're not aggressive enough for the power-play overs, so I'd give Bell a go at number three.

 

[Owzat]

I think Chris Woakes should have been in both squads.

I think if Flower was going to comment about England and the 2015 World Cup he should have backed his words up with actions and made some changes.

England XI that got thumped by Sri Lanka in the World Cup QF :

Strauss, Bell, Trott, Bopara, Morgan, Swann, Prior, Wright, Bresnan, Tredwell, Tremlett

England squad for India ODI series :

Cook, Kieswetter, Bell, Trott, Bopara, Morgan, Swann, Stokes, Bresnan, Broad, Anderson + Dernbach, Finn, Patel



Six of the players are the same, would have been eight if Anderson and Broad had been fit and available. I'm sure England will have blamed fatigue, luck, injuries etc for the World Cup performance(s), but that isn't stopping them picking the same names.

Kieswetter for Prior was a fairly inevitable move, him or Davies, with Prior tried in an unsuitable role of pinch-hitter because England are obsessed. Strauss for Cook is as like for like as you are going to get, England left-handed Test openers. Dernbach was there and didn't play, Broad and Anderson would have been there had they been fit and so Finn, Patel and Stokes come in for Wright, Yardy, Tremlett and Tredwell effectively.

England probably 'think' if they get the pinch-hitter and opening pair 'right' then the rest will fall in place and next time they'll be luckier in all respects including injury. Fact is that any side with ambitions to win the World Cup needs a plan B and back-up players, England's plan A is pretty ropey and there is no plan B. Until they get to grips with the 'muddle overs' they will not win the World Cup - muddle overs being after the first 15 overs batting and use of their bowlers (look to take wickets not get the 4th and 5th bowler allocation through and let the opposition off the hook/have easy runs)

I think part of the problem is, in England and off media like TMS, the middle overs are considered nothing overs, nothing happens. But it can be what you do or don't do during that spell that shapes the rest of the match and I'd say it is one of England's weaker areas

 

[Sureshot]

Think you're being a little harsh, it's going in the right direction, if not full steam ahead in that direction. Of those carried over from the World Cup. Broad, Morgan, Trott and Swann are shoe ins, their records are just too good to be debated over. I think Jimmy is a good enough ODI player, just not been in form of late (interesting discipline swap over his career). Actually as he's been a bone of contention before...

Last 5 calender years for Anderson:

2007: 39 wickets at 29.61 going at 4.69 rpo.
2008: 10 wickets at 74.70 going at 5.65 rpo.
2009: 34 wickets at 23.61 going at 4.97 rpo.
2010: 18 wickets at 33.83 going at 5.07 rpo.
2011: 20 wickets at 35.80 going at 5.71 rpo.

So he's had one awful year, one superb year, couple of okay years and a meh year this year, though I think the issues in India were really exacerbated by things other than his form, not to mention the dullness of those wickets.

Though I'm not going to disagree with the issues in the team, with regards to middle overs. We don't take enough wickets in those overs and too easily get bogged down during those overs when batting. We know Broad and Swann are wicket takers, no issues there. Anderson whilst not having the best of times of late, can be a wicket taker. I'm guessing Dernbach will be playing most of this series, did well against Sri Lanka and he is a threat. Then we come to the crux, the 5th bowler, who inevitably will be an all-rounder.

You don't really expect Samit to take big wickets against a side like India, but definitely want to see him given some matches. Bresnan hasn't had a good ODI career as his Test, personally wouldn't play him. Then you go down the route of something like Bopara/Stokes/Trott being 5th bowler, don't really like this. They need to be 6th bowler, thus my side for the India series would be:

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
Bopara
Morgan (or maybe at 4, but I like him being the finisher)
Patel
Stokes
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Dernbach

Don't think that XI will be the side that plays though. They'll play Bell and Bresnan I suspect in place of Stokes and Patel. Though I know with my XI that Stokes won't be bowling.

The balance without a Freddie is just so awkward unless Bresnan can start taking wickets, cos he can bat 7, no doubt. Or even Patel, but although he's my 5th bowler above, he'd be more suited to a 6th bowler jobbie, like Colly was before Freddie left the setup.

Oh and Finn to be given some match time this series, he's a wicket taker, maybe if Jimmy struggles in first 2 or 3?

 

[SaiSrini]

Parthiv again shines in the tour game. Making a great case for himself (he is likely to open the innings for us in ODI's in the absence of Gambhir)

 

[angryangy]

Anderson's wicket taking doesn't really justify his overall inconsistency. His role is should be pretty clear, to get early wickets, but while there are odd matches where he does this well, in most series he's not a particularly notable strike bowler.