England In India - October 2011/12

[Ollie_H]

That competitive Summer of cricket we just witnessed you mean?

Yeah, the one Keiswetter only averaged 35 in.

So sure, he might get a 120 ball century.

To be honest, I would take anyone who scores a century in 120 balls.

but how many batsman have we lost at the other end while he takes his time because a spinner is bowling well at him and he can't find a gap?

Why is it suddenly Cook's fault the England batsman can't play spin?

 

[MUFC1987]

I'm saying Cook can't play Spin. Hence the attempted slog against Jadeja in the first game, following a couple of balls of struggle.

And I'm not saying that the rest of the order is perfect, I'm just saying that the start is key in these matches, especially on slow and low pitches and Cook isn't the right man for the job. I don't see the point in him being the Captain for the next few years only for this to be proven right, when we could be trying out an exciting combination with plenty of potential. As I've said before, finally, the quality is there in County cricket, they just need a chance, rather than recycling Test players over and over again.

 

[Ollie_H]

Who said anything about Trott? I said we should keep Trott. As you say, his numbers are great. It adds to my point though. Trott has been our best batsman for the last couple of years in ODIs. Yet, because Cook was at the crease, KP came out before him in the first ODI against India. This shows that Cook being in the team is affecting other batsmen and my point is that I'd rather keep Trott just how he is, than have Cook who affects the game of the likes of Trott, as shown in that first game.

You didn't, but there is always talk of wanting to drop him.

I don't see how it's 'Cook affecting other Batsman', it's the England team being flexible. Especially when (apart from Finn), Cook had the highest SR.

The fact that Indian spinners took 6 of the wickets isn't because Cook was batting 'too slowly', just the fact that English batsman are awful at playing spin. I'd say 285 (Cooks score if he was to face all 300 balls without getting out) is a winning score in most games.

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I'm saying Cook can't play Spin. Hence the attempted slog against Jadeja in the first game, following a couple of balls of struggle.

But none of the players can play spin, hence why the spinners took the other half of the wickets. It's been a well known fact English batsman are just sh*t awful against spin.

Heck, they'd probably lose to Zimbabwe.

 

[Sureshot]

Pretty sure Davies was left out only after he came out.

That's a fairly big accusation, not only proven to be false, but I'm bemused some people even think it's related.

On the England batting line-up, I don't think it's all that bad. I'd have both Cook and Trott. But the order needs to be flexible and should be appropriately changed for the relevant scenario.

The big cog is really Morgan, we really miss him. KP has a point to prove still, I sort of back sticking by him to come good in ODI's again, on the other hand, he has been woeful in ODI's of late. We know he can do it though, that's the problem. When he's on song, he's the best in the world.

Bairstow seems to fit in quite well, give him time and I think he'll come good. I think Samit is way better with the bat than people give him credit for, but he's no #7.

The balance is about there barring a truly world class all-rounder, but we don't have one of those, so it'll always be an issue. As said, couple of changes, give Borthwick some game time. Play about with the order a bit. Then Morgan comes back in and it's really not that far from our best side, regardless of how badly we're doing out in India. It's a tough place to play cricket, it's hardly only England who have struggled there in recent years!

Not really fussed if we get hammered in the series. It's a great experience for the likes of Finn and Bairstow. Hopefully Borthwick...

 

[puddleduck]

I was mostly trolling, as these boards have been beyond dull lately... Seemed to work

 

[AngryPixel]

You didn't, but there is always talk of wanting to drop him.

I don't see how it's 'Cook affecting other Batsman', it's the England team being flexible. Especially when (apart from Finn), Cook had the highest SR.

The fact that Indian spinners took 6 of the wickets isn't because Cook was batting 'too slowly', just the fact that English batsman are awful at playing spin. I'd say 285 (Cooks score if he was to face all 300 balls without getting out) is a winning score in most games.

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But none of the players can play spin, hence why the spinners took the other half of the wickets. It's been a well known fact English batsman are just sh*t awful against spin.

Heck, they'd probably lose to Zimbabwe.

I completely agree with you there. Cook was the most comfortable of the players against spin. In the first match he was batting more than run a ball and only the slow batting of Trott caused him to do something more which was not needed hence the slog. Blaming him for the spin troubles is pathetic. There are 6 more batters apart from him who are paid to do the job.

Just got one question for English fans? Why the fearsome tweak Ian Bell is sitting out and Samit Patel is playing in? Can anyone shed some light on that. I would take Bell in my side on any track ahead of Patel. Bopara and KP can chuck pie just as good as patel does.

 

[puddleduck]

No one knows. I think Patel might have pictures of Andy Flower in bed with Davies...

 

[Ollie_H]

On the England batting line-up, I don't think it's all that bad. I'd have both Cook and Trott. But the order needs to be flexible and should be appropriately changed for the relevant scenario.

I agree and I don't think should that be seen other batsman deterring the others. Look at the way the Indians mix with the batting order, half the time Dhoni just wanders out when he fancies it. It's about being dynamic.

I think Samit is way better with the bat than people give him credit for, but he's no #7.

The thing thing is, Samit isn't a #7. Which is the main problem England have which is wasting players. And he is also more of a batting all-rounder than a bowling especially on an International stage. But England isn't brimming with class All-Rounders at the moment.

Are there any good South African ones we can knick? .

Why the fried chicken Ian Bell is sitting out and Samit Patel is playing in?

Well firstly Patel add that bowling option that Bell doesn't.

Also, that Bell has been used so many times and has failed so many times doesn't help his cause. He should probably be in because he is England's best player of spin but where do you put him?

Drop Patel, you lose a bowling option (same with Bopara). Drop Bairstow, you lose England's probably most attacking player, you also wouldn't put Bell in that low. Drop KP, you lose KP .

And that leaves you with Cook, Trott and Keiswetter. One's the skipper (of which there aren't very many more obvious choices apart from him), one's the best batsman by far and the either is the attacking (not a pinch hitter) impoteus, which Bell certainly isn't.

If he plays, IMO he has to be in the Top 3 but his performances haven't justified that selection over past ODIs.

 

[angryangy]

I don't like the name Borthwick and I hope this character is written out of the show.

 

[Owzat]

On the England batting line-up, I don't think it's all that bad. I'd have both Cook and Trott. But the order needs to be flexible and should be appropriately changed for the relevant scenario.p/quote]

I agree, I think the order is wrong and the pinch-hitting keeper is something I wish we'd steer away from. I think Trott could do a job in terms of building a platform, wham bang thankyou Craig is all well and good for gaining us maybe 5-10 runs over a sustained period BUT he doesn't last long enough and we can end up 0/2 as per the other day which negates the extra runs.

The big cog is really Morgan, we really miss him. KP has a point to prove still, I sort of back sticking by him to come good in ODI's again, on the other hand, he has been woeful in ODI's of late. We know he can do it though, that's the problem. When he's on song, he's the best in the world.

A longish break from ODIs could be the solution, including him in the hope he will "find form" isn't working and teams seem to have a mental hold on him.

I think Samit is way better with the bat than people give him credit for, but he's no #7.

I don't doubt he is a handy batsman, but we need a bowler not a batsman and he will struggle to be one or the other if left at #7

 

[jacobfelix]

Oh...So many calling for Samit's head ....Just take an example of Jadeja...Months back he was the villain of the nation ....now slowly people are believing in him....

So, give Samit some time ...he might become the Hero of Britain... the next Ian Botham....

I trust you are jesting.

The other day you told I was jesting.....now today, see what Samit did ....he made one Botham....( though it's too early to say )

Hopefully from hereon everyone will start believing my pre-monitions

 

[swacker]

Atrocious bowling by India during the slog overs. Nothing new, but the fact that the bowlers still haven't learned the art of death bowling.

 

[SaiSrini]

Better batting there from England, but India's batsmen look like they will again finish off this game as early as possible. Rahane has got a 50 and is looking good enough for his first ton, and Gambhir continues his good form. Hope we can get another crushing victory here and demoralize England!

 

[AngryPixel]

Atrocious bowling by India during the slog overs. Nothing new, but the fact that the bowlers still haven't learned the art of death bowling.

Not as bad as England did in first ODI If i remember correctly, Indians clobbered them for 170 runs in last 16 overs

 

[jacobfelix]

Last 20 overs we need 126....9 wkts in hand.....so easy even I feel like going out to bat there