England Team Discussion

[MUFC1987]

It's just depressing how rigid we are. With 20 overs to go, either Morgan or Buttler should be walking to the crease, with 5 overs to get themselves in before the powerplay. I feel for Ballance, that's just not his natural game, yet he's been forced into that situation. Also, on Bell, that is the kind of innings that we panned Cook for. You need to either score a 50 quicker, or go on after that and turn it into a 100. Opening is the easiest place to bat in the modern game, getting 50 off 80 just isn't acceptable, especially when you have so many wickets in hand.

 

[bigred]

feel a bit sorry for Ballance, played no cricket then suddenly told to go in at 3 in the world cup - even if they decided to drop Bopara (and they shouldn't have), why on earth move Taylor from 3 where he was doing a good job. the whole thinking around this england team is just muddled.

all the talk on sky sports before was about England having spent the week having "meetings, meetings, meetings... meetings about meetings". just shows why Moores should be nowhere near that set up. just doesn't have a clue.

only England could make a 110+ run win seem like a defeat. how do you go from 172-0 with almost 20 overs left to 303-8 against a sub-county attack. absolutely shocking. Had Ian Bell been given out early when he should have been LBW, this could have been worse. As it was only Moeen Ali gave anything like an adequate performance.

i'm an England fan but I genuinely hope we get knocked out before the quarters - we cannot keep claiming positives where there are none and papering over the cracks. the whole set up needs rethinking - moores: out; saker: out; every f-ing analyst in the backroom team: out; whittaker: out; downton: out.

this is a quote from Stuart Broad after the Australia game: "Here’s a stat for you. South Africa are the best in the world at death bowling and they go at an average of 5.8 runs as compared with our 8.0 in the last 10 overs. So what’s making them better? The world average is 30 to 40 per cent yorkers in those last overs in the modern game and what’s South Africa’s percentage? 12 per cent. They bowl length outside off-stump."

just think about that for a second... no intelligent analysis of the different skills/attributes of the bowlers, the opponents, the match situation, no ability to think in the match of whether something is working here today or maybe needs to change, no adaptability... just a bunch of numbers spewed out. that is where nearly 10 years of peter moores, andy flower, and backroom statisticians get you - a senior england player (t20 captain, no less) who can give you a load of stats about South Africa's death bowling but can't take a wicket against scotland.

I'm not sure you can both support England and want them to go out. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'll still be backing them in the dark days. Believe!

 

[abhi_jacko]

LOL cant believe the English fans are finding flaws even when their team scored a big win. Yes, the batting lineup seemed rigid, and it wasn't a great finish to the innings but it was as clinical a win as it gets. Will definitely help them gather some momentum against Sri Lanka

 

[ChinamanSpin]

@blockerdave Agree with absolutely everything you said. Top most in my opinion.

I'm not sure you can both support England and want them to go out. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'll still be backing them in the dark days. Believe!

I classify myself as an England supporter as well, and a few years ago I would have been absolutely gutted if we lost to an associate(or crashed out of an ICC tournament, or lost the Ashes). Nowadays I find myself wanting England to lose embarrassingly just so there are changes someone along the line.The whole system stinks. How Moores is still in a job, or was even reappointed with his awful record and unfortunate habit of falling out with every captain he worked with, I cannot fathom. Looks like KP was right about his woodpecker tendencies. His obsession with numbers is counterproductive. We need a Lehman-type in English cricket, someone who will encourage them all to play their natural games. And the rigidness is shocking, evidenced how we were 170-1 after 30 and decided to bring out Root and Ballance rather than Morgan or Buttler. I think it was after Root was dismissed and Taylor walked out I called it a night.

And don't even get me started on Saker. Finn, Broad, Jordan, Bresnan, Rankin and Overton (would be others if I followed teams as closely as Somerset) have all been successful, fast and dangerous at county level. A decent amount of time working either with Saker or the EPP will somehow reveal crippling flaws in their action, which are removed. The fact that the same bowler will find himself bowling waywardly at 80mph means that they are ignored, and only find themselves in contention once they've worked with their county coaches, by which time the process begins to repeat itself.

 

[IceAgeComing]

it is important that every bowler bowls the action in the coaching book, because incorrect actions are always bad. Look at Lasith Malinga; I mean have you ever heard of him? He's a Sri Lankan fast bowler (lol I know) and he bowled ROUND ARM. He's not played for them for a long time while proper bowlers are because they do things properly!

 

[blockerdave]

I'm not sure you can both support England and want them to go out. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'll still be backing them in the dark days. Believe!

If you want the best for England medium/long-term you need the current setup swept away and unfortunately that's only going to happen with a failure to reach the QF. That I, who spent my formative years watching England in the late 80s and early 90s find this the hardest England team to support speaks volumes.

 

[blockerdave]

LOL cant believe the English fans are finding flaws even when their team scored a big win. Yes, the batting lineup seemed rigid, and it wasn't a great finish to the innings but it was as clinical a win as it gets. Will definitely help them gather some momentum against Sri Lanka

Scoring at least 40 runs less than we should have when were already well behind on net run rate isn't a little bit clinical.

When SA had a huge opening partnership against the Windies they sent in de Villiers up the order with 11 overs left and he got a 31 ball hundred. We sent in Gary Ballance to score at a strike rate of about 40.

That's clinical in the sense that our set up needs urgent surgery, and nothing else.

 

[bigred]

@blockerdave Agree with absolutely everything you said. Top most in my opinion.


I classify myself as an England supporter as well, and a few years ago I would have been absolutely gutted if we lost to an associate(or crashed out of an ICC tournament, or lost the Ashes). Nowadays I find myself wanting England to lose embarrassingly just so there are changes someone along the line.The whole system stinks. How Moores is still in a job, or was even reappointed with his awful record and unfortunate habit of falling out with every captain he worked with, I cannot fathom. Looks like KP was right about his woodpecker tendencies. His obsession with numbers is counterproductive. We need a Lehman-type in English cricket, someone who will encourage them all to play their natural games. And the rigidness is shocking, evidenced how we were 170-1 after 30 and decided to bring out Root and Ballance rather than Morgan or Buttler. I think it was after Root was dismissed and Taylor walked out I called it a night.

And don't even get me started on Saker. Finn, Broad, Jordan, Bresnan, Rankin and Overton (would be others if I followed teams as closely as Somerset) have all been successful, fast and dangerous at county level. A decent amount of time working either with Saker or the EPP will somehow reveal crippling flaws in their action, which are removed. The fact that the same bowler will find himself bowling waywardly at 80mph means that they are ignored, and only find themselves in contention once they've worked with their county coaches, by which time the process begins to repeat itself.

I don't disagree with anything you say. Saker is a joke. England's tactics are a joke and Peter Moores is probably confirming what we already knew about him first time round. However I always desperately want England to do well.

 

[Shrimper]

All very well beating Scotland but if we don't beat Sri Lanka then it will have been all for nothing. I'd drop Ballance and bring Hales in.

 

[MUFC1987]

On Jamie Overton, I don't think it's anything technical that they coached into or out of him. The issue was that he was finally bowling every week and doing well, then England decided that they had to have him in the squad to carry drinks for two weeks. He didn't bowl a competitive over and hasn't looked the same since. I think he's a confidence bowler who needs a lot of overs to bowl well at this stage of his career.

I think that's the fear for a lot of the younger bowlers. If England want to use them, then fine. But stop picking them to bowl in the nets. It didn't do James Anderson any favours in 2005 and hasn't done the likes of Finn and Overton any good since.

 

[blockerdave]

It was definitely the case with Anderson but they (Troy Cooley) also tried to remodel his action.

Finn has just been destroyed by England on every level - dropped when he was the series leading wicket taker in Ashes 10/11; remodelled action that's ruined his pace; called unselectable - just utterly shocking in every aspect.

 

[ChinamanSpin]

In terms of the confidence point, it was good to see someone who has been in England camps, and is probably pretty close to the current one, make points along the lines of young players having their confidence and carefree attitude shattered after a few poor innings, as they are shuffled around the order or dropped, such as Nasser Hussain made in the buildup to the Scotland game.

He was even talking about several young batsman in this case, in examples where other countries would show faith in those players. Ben Stokes would probably be a prime example of that, having been up and down the order, and then dropped after being the best bowler from number 8 in one of the summer tests.

 

[themusketeer]

Hales ? Where is he ? Google Search

 

[MUFC1987]

In terms of the confidence point, it was good to see someone who has been in England camps, and is probably pretty close to the current one, make points along the lines of young players having their confidence and carefree attitude shattered after a few poor innings, as they are shuffled around the order or dropped, such as Nasser Hussain made in the buildup to the Scotland game.

He was even talking about several young batsman in this case, in examples where other countries would show faith in those players. Ben Stokes would probably be a prime example of that, having been up and down the order, and then dropped after being the best bowler from number 8 in one of the summer tests.

I totally agree with you, we should be showing faith with these younger players (Hales, Stokes etc) and giving them a long run in the side. I think the problem it boils down to though, is that the core of players haven't been good enough recently. By that I mean that there isn't a group of 5 or 6 players who have done well in ODIs and are guaranteed their places in the side. You look at the better sides and you know they have 7 or 8 players who play well and deserve their places, so they can pick a few inexperienced ones around them. Just look at South Africa a year or two back. Amla, du Plessis and de Villiers all solid in the top order, so you can take the risk and bring in de Kock and he's thrived.

With England though, who can you look at and say they've performed well enough to be a guaranteed starter? Not many. That means that the management are essentially hedging their bets by putting as many experienced players in as possible (Root and Ballance having Test experience for example), in the hope that they come good, rather than 'risk' the youth around the country.

 

[rishijeet]

Hales ? Where is he ? Google Search

probably at ice cream booth[DOUBLEPOST=1425160271][/DOUBLEPOST]England winning toss and batting, good to see MALINGA in new avatar, last match he was in good form.