Highlander999
ICC President
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Not really. You have Gayle, Sarwan, Edwards and even Nash is beginning to mature as a batsman. They are just let down by the rest of the team which is mediocre.
English Domestic Cricket
- Thread starter Kev
- Start date
Not really. You have Gayle, Sarwan, Edwards and even Nash is beginning to mature as a batsman. They are just let down by the rest of the team which is mediocre.
aussie_ben91
School Cricketer
Zimbabwe had Andy Flower & Heath Streak are Zimbabwe were still considered 'minnows'.
Highlander999
ICC President
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But the rest of the West Indies, are still a lot better then the rest of Zimbabwe, despite the West Indies being mediocre compared to the Test Playing nations
aussie_ben91
School Cricketer
The Zimbabwian team with Andy Flower & Heath Streak was a heck of allot stronger then the current West Indian team.
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
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The same team that Hayden scored his 380 against, funny that. I'm going to guess that you're defending them in order to make Hayden's innings seem less like a complete Minnow-bash.
The West Indian players' statistics do not flatter them. Edwards has been superb in the last few months. Against England he was excellent, he was superb with the new ball for Deccan and he's continued that form into this series. Jerome Taylor is also a very good new ball bowler, and when on fire is as good as unplayable. 2 of the deliveries he bowled at Jamaica would have beaten most batsmen in world cricket. Chanderpaul's the current best batsman in the world, Gayle's been in brilliant form with the bat since he got the captaincy, Sarwan had an off tour in NZ but has been very good in every other series of late, Nash has looked very good albeit on flat tracks, Lendl Simmons has alot of potential, as proven by his double ton in a tour game against England in the Carribbean and Devon Smith should be averaging a hell of alot higher than he is. He looks a top batsman until he gets into the 40's and just gives his wicket away. He's probably a better player of seam bowling than Gayle and Sarwan, as proven by his runs against Australia. The West Indies are far from minnows.
The West Indian players' statistics do not flatter them. Edwards has been superb in the last few months. Against England he was excellent, he was superb with the new ball for Deccan and he's continued that form into this series. Jerome Taylor is also a very good new ball bowler, and when on fire is as good as unplayable. 2 of the deliveries he bowled at Jamaica would have beaten most batsmen in world cricket. Chanderpaul's the current best batsman in the world, Gayle's been in brilliant form with the bat since he got the captaincy, Sarwan had an off tour in NZ but has been very good in every other series of late, Nash has looked very good albeit on flat tracks, Lendl Simmons has alot of potential, as proven by his double ton in a tour game against England in the Carribbean and Devon Smith should be averaging a hell of alot higher than he is. He looks a top batsman until he gets into the 40's and just gives his wicket away. He's probably a better player of seam bowling than Gayle and Sarwan, as proven by his runs against Australia. The West Indies are far from minnows.
aussie_ben91
School Cricketer
Andy Flower averaged over 50, Dave Houghton averaged 43 and Murray Goodwin averaged 42. Guys like Grant Flower, Alastair Campbell and Guy Whittall are better batsman then Devon Smith, Lendl Simmons and Brendan Nash. Taitender Taibu was also a class player.
On the bowling side of things Heath Streak was far and beyhond better then any West Indies bowler. He carried the Zimbabwe attack and is probably better then the entire West Indies attack put together.
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
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Alright then, if we're looking at stats and stats alone, in the last 3 years:
Chris Gayle: 1625 runs at 40.62 (as captain: 950 runs at 47.50 with 3 hundreds)
Ramnaresh Sarwan: 1599 runs at 48.45 with 6 Hundreds
Shivnarine Chanderpaul: 2272 runs at 71.00 with 7 hundreds
Brendan Nash: 401 runs at 44.55 with 1 hundred
Jerome Taylor: 77 wickets at 32.74 (average of 26 on generally flat West Indian tracks)
Fidel Edwards: 61 wickets at 34.09 (if you'd watched him though he deserves a far better record than that. Had 7 or 8 chances dropped off him against England in the Windies. Plus the fact he swings the ball at 90mph+)
FC records last full season:
Lendl Simmons: 817 runs at 62.84 with 2 hundreds + a double ton in a Tour game against England
Sulieman Benn: 30 wickets at 26.84
Lionel Baker: 17 wickets at 17.70 (also bowls quite accurately at about 85mph, far better than Daren Powell!)
West Indies' records are not that bad. Edwards and Taylor's bowling records will improve and they deserve far better bowling averages than they've got, especially Edwards. Edwards has been excellent everytime I've seen him. He bowls at 90mph+ with a slingy action, gets swing and has a mean bouncer. He's had Pietersen all at sea of late with his late swing and his pace. Pietersen's wanted to stay back to him because of his pace, but Edward's late swing and full length has troubled him.
The Windies are a better side than you're making out, they're certainly not minnows.
Chris Gayle: 1625 runs at 40.62 (as captain: 950 runs at 47.50 with 3 hundreds)
Ramnaresh Sarwan: 1599 runs at 48.45 with 6 Hundreds
Shivnarine Chanderpaul: 2272 runs at 71.00 with 7 hundreds
Brendan Nash: 401 runs at 44.55 with 1 hundred
Jerome Taylor: 77 wickets at 32.74 (average of 26 on generally flat West Indian tracks)
Fidel Edwards: 61 wickets at 34.09 (if you'd watched him though he deserves a far better record than that. Had 7 or 8 chances dropped off him against England in the Windies. Plus the fact he swings the ball at 90mph+)
FC records last full season:
Lendl Simmons: 817 runs at 62.84 with 2 hundreds + a double ton in a Tour game against England
Sulieman Benn: 30 wickets at 26.84
Lionel Baker: 17 wickets at 17.70 (also bowls quite accurately at about 85mph, far better than Daren Powell!)
West Indies' records are not that bad. Edwards and Taylor's bowling records will improve and they deserve far better bowling averages than they've got, especially Edwards. Edwards has been excellent everytime I've seen him. He bowls at 90mph+ with a slingy action, gets swing and has a mean bouncer. He's had Pietersen all at sea of late with his late swing and his pace. Pietersen's wanted to stay back to him because of his pace, but Edward's late swing and full length has troubled him.
The Windies are a better side than you're making out, they're certainly not minnows.
jordox
International Cricketer
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- Online Cricket Games Owned
Ben, you've giving me a warm tingly feeling talking about us Zimbabweans so nicely.
I do agree to, I'd be backing the Zimbabwean glory years against the current Windies line up. I think it's worth mentioning that we have never been full strength either, due to all the political crap the players had to go through.
I do agree to, I'd be backing the Zimbabwean glory years against the current Windies line up. I think it's worth mentioning that we have never been full strength either, due to all the political crap the players had to go through.
aussie_ben91
School Cricketer
In the last 3 years with the bat against the West Indies:
- 3 batsman have averaged over 100
- 2 batsman have averaged in the 80s
- 8 batsman have averaged in the 60s
- 13 batsman have averaged in the 50s
In total 26 batsman have averaged over 50 against the West Indies in the last 3 years. That's two and a half cricket teams averaging over 50, in such a short period of time. 22 Bowlers have also averaged under 30 against the West Indies in the same period of time.
Why are you mentioning first-class statistics? What does that have to do with International sides being minnows?
- 3 batsman have averaged over 100
- 2 batsman have averaged in the 80s
- 8 batsman have averaged in the 60s
- 13 batsman have averaged in the 50s
In total 26 batsman have averaged over 50 against the West Indies in the last 3 years. That's two and a half cricket teams averaging over 50, in such a short period of time. 22 Bowlers have also averaged under 30 against the West Indies in the same period of time.
Why are you mentioning first-class statistics? What does that have to do with International sides being minnows?
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
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Flat as a road, but a better bowling attack than Phil Hughes has faced this summer. Hoggard, Rana Naved, Kruis, Rashid and Shahzad is not a bad bowling attack at all. Big hundred for Jonathan Trott as well.
Leicester Fox
Chairman of Selectors
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Go on the Trottster. Shouldn't really be in this thread looking at Leicester though...
King Pietersen
ICC Board Member
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- Manchester
Good win for Essex as well today over Lancs. Masters was awesome with the ball once more, picking up 3-19 from his 9 overs. A couple of wickets for Napes, Kaneria and 1 for Ravi as well. Shame Rav failed with the bat, but more runs for Varun Chopra was a real positive. He's been fantastic with the bat in the FP Trophy this season, turning into a very good OD player!
Poor day for the former England players vying for an England place. 0-52 from 10 overs for Panesar, 1-59 from 10 from Steve Harmison, Luke Wright got a duck, Ian Bell got a duck and Tim Ambrose failed; on the brightside however, Fats Patel made a few runs.
Couple more wickets for the young Notts seamer Fletcher as well, he's really starting to impress, couple of good young seamers have come along in Fletcher and Woakes this season. Alex Hales managed to break his run of ducks caused by leaving the ball also
Poor day for the former England players vying for an England place. 0-52 from 10 overs for Panesar, 1-59 from 10 from Steve Harmison, Luke Wright got a duck, Ian Bell got a duck and Tim Ambrose failed; on the brightside however, Fats Patel made a few runs.
Couple more wickets for the young Notts seamer Fletcher as well, he's really starting to impress, couple of good young seamers have come along in Fletcher and Woakes this season. Alex Hales managed to break his run of ducks caused by leaving the ball also
