Features you want to see in next iteration of Big Ant Cricket

[blockerdave]

I agree on the first point. But when franco showed us that such a slider isn't required, where is the need for it?

Why isn't it required? I play on normal, someone else plays on high... perhaps someone else wants something in between.

You appear to struggle with the concept of customisation. @cricket_online is specifically talking about increasing customisation options allowing each user to tailor the experience to their own preference. Sliders on multiple facets of gameplay is a good way to do that

 

[LittleBigPlanet]

I agree on the first point. But when franco showed us that such a slider isn't required, where is the need for it?

Hah! Yeah fair point @SibiNaayagam ...

Obviously in DBC 14 there was a noticeable difference between user controlled batting and bowling edge frequency...and yes it should technically be BA responsibility to deliver the most realistic, balanced and consistent edges for both batting and bowling straight out of the box(default settings), BUT....

Sliders are a good alternative for people of all different levels of experience, skill, and personal preference. And this particular slider that is being discussed would only be there for "if or when" you wanted to adjust it.

Now a little rant, but... I just want to tell you a little story of how I became the manager of Leyton orient and then how I won the champions league in my second year after premier league promotion!!!...........using sliders lol

My point is sometimes sliders encourage you to keep playing a game even if your really bad at it to begin with, and after a while you tweak them to suit, sometimes that's to make the game easier and sometimes its to make it harder, and sometimes you just tweak it so it looks ridiculous or ridiculously op. If there is an edge slider in DBC 17 I'll probably tweak it just so I can get as many edges as possible just so I can marvel at all the spectacularness!

And then of course I'll probably tweak it back to the most realistic,balanced and consistent gameplay I like, the choice would be all yours basically!

 

[cricket_online]

To both of you...

I'm trying to tell that some factors shouldn't be decided by the player. Ofcourse we can customize the difficulty for batting, bowling or fielding separately but customising edges is bound to so many factors. It's like asking to customise the amount of runs an AI will score. It will break the other constraints for the AI and you will end up with unrealistic scores. An edge is decided by the batsman's rating, player's rating, bowler's quality of the ball delivered, the batsman's skill against such a ball and the shot he is playing, the batsman's pressure level, the batsman's confidence, the pitch condition, the weather condition, the ball's condition! And each of this condition varies per match and per ball...Now BA has to figure out a way to realistically handle this in a game without breaking it's stability. Remember why BA insisted that a team of 11 should not be full of 100 rated players and user created are better linked to on-disc players?...Stability.

Infact, franco himself did not give you a slider. He gave you two pressure levels at which the normal works best...realistic scores. It's one set mode. I hope you understand that.

And why not? If I prefer to have more edges or fewer edges I should be able to adjust the game accordingly. Everything in the model can be decided by the game but i'm simply adjusting the factor or probability of an edge occurring. Same for all the other settings I mentioned. Plus i don't see what it has to do with "stability' of the game. At worst I would get more or fewer (or no) edges but not result in stability issues. At the end of the day whether a shot will result in an edge or not is a mathematical formula or probability function which at its simplest will be something on similar lines...

Chance a shot is an edge = (Quality of batsman) * (Pitch condition) * (Quality and type of delivery) * (Type of shot) * (Atmospheric conditions) * (Confidence) * (User input/shot timing)

Now replace all these variables with numbers used in the model as follows...
Quality of batsman - variable ranging from .2 (tailender) to 1 (Bradman)
Pitch condition - .2 (Green mamba) to .9 (Flat pitch)
Quality and type of delivery - .2 (a perfectly executed good length out swinger) to .9 (a rank half volley)
Atmospheric conditions - .2 (An overcast sky) to .9 (Clear sky with bright sunshine)
Type of shot *shot selection) - .2 (a hard cover drive to a short of length swinging delivery outside off) to .9 (a defensive prod)
Confidence - .2 (a batsman new to the crease) to 1 (batsman is fully set)
User input/shot timing - .2 (batsman is too early or late) to 1 (perfectly timed shot)

Based on these variables you may get an output ranging from say .01 (Only 1 percent chance of the shot being an edge) to close to .95 (95% chance of a shot resulting in an edge). All I'm saying is that add another variable called slider setting in the formula which ranges from .1 to 10. The default value of the 'Slider Setting' variable will be '1' which means the default probability of the edge determination will occur. Now as a user I can increase the number of edges by decreasing the value of slider setting variable (say .5 from 1) or reduce the number of edges by increasing the value (say 8 instead of 1). At the end of the day it's a mathematical model and 'stability' should not be impacted. I should be able to tailor my gameplay user experience by selecting the options & settings I prefer. For online gameplay there can be a pre-set values kust like in FIFA or Madden so everyone plays at a particular default difficulty level.

P.S. - Giving users more control over the gameplay experience via sliders enhances longevity of the game and makes the game more accessible to the folks who may find the default game too hard or easy.

 

[cricket_online]

I agree on the first point. But when franco showed us that such a slider isn't required, where is the need for it?

Franco is not the one who has access to the game development and code. He can't add sliders in his tweaks but at the end of the day he/she would've changed some of the mathematical model input variables to increase the edge frequency similar to the example i gave above.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

So you mean replace difficulty with sliders or sliders in difficulty for variation and adjusting as per individual needs?

 

[cricket_online]

So you mean replace difficulty with sliders or sliders in difficulty for variation and adjusting as per individual needs?

I think I have explained it all in the following post...
Features you want to see in next iteration of Big Ant Cricket | Page 183 - Don Bradman Cricket 17 Forum on PlanetCricket Forums

 

[kamrul]

Giving users more control over the gameplay experience via sliders enhances longevity of the game

Now! That's the main reason behind wanting the gameplay customizer. It will certainly increase the longevity of the game! And many of the users left playing dbc cause they found it too difficult at the beginning and said that it's an unplayable game (grapes are sour) . It will provide those casual players some flexibility.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

I feel BA has a skill system going on which IMO have been rectified from DBC 14 errors as they seem to be confident on that..We have to wait on how that works out and another question is wouldnt that conflict if we have that skill system going on along with difficulty system which also caters to different players as the deliveries are made easier to bat with and not too much stress on footwork is given on lower difficulties and requires to be good with both foot and bat in higher difficulties..

The main thing is DBC 14 did not have that balance in the gameplay which the user required to get authentic experience..Wouldnt bringing that balance to the game with the difficulty levels work out well...Maybe the concept which some pointed out about batting and bowling having different difficulties which kind of make sense as some are good in one department than the other hence the balance with different difficulties for both batting and bowling...

And I really think we have to wait on what they have done with the newer system whatever they are trying to bring in and then decide for whether such stuff is required or not..

 

[cricket_online]

I feel BA has a skill system going on which IMO have been rectified from DBC 14 errors as they seem to be confident on that..We have to wait on how that works out and another question is wouldnt that conflict if we have that skill system going on along with difficulty system which also caters to different players as the deliveries are made easier to bat with and not too much stress on footwork is given on lower difficulties and requires to be good with both foot and bat in higher difficulties..

The main thing is DBC 14 did not have that balance in the gameplay which the user required to get authentic experience..Wouldnt bringing that balance to the game with the difficulty levels work out well...Maybe the concept which some pointed out about batting and bowling having different difficulties which kind of make sense as some are good in one department than the other hence the balance with different difficulties for both batting and bowling...

And I really think we have to wait on what they have done with the newer system whatever they are trying to bring in and then decide for whether such stuff is required or not..

Three points...

1. The sliders for various aspects of gameplay doesn't take away from various skills & attributes. Skills & attributes help in determining the shot timing and placement along with the leeway they get for playing various shots and not getting dismissed. The gameplay sliders won't change that but make the overall gameplay experience more accessible and user friendly. Skills & attributes help in determining various levels of players but they don't determine the difficulty level. I still want to see a difference between Bradman and Chris Martin - be it 'Legend' or 'Rookie' difficulty level - and I'm not saying at the lowest difficulty level everyone's the same.

2. Users need to determine what "authentic" experience should be. My definition of authentic may very well not match yours'. Secondly, it's a video game and I want to tailor the user experience to my liking. If a particular setting makes me enjoy the game more i want to do so no matter whether you think it's 'authentic' or not.

3. Game developers will always find it tough to nail "gameplay balance". The reason being they are too close to the game and secondly they are not the end uses. They should let users define and balance the gameplay by means of sliders as there's no a bunch of game developers can find the silver bullet of gameplay balancing which satisfies everyone, or even a majority of users. EA was smart enough to recognize it and let users figure out their own unique "gameplay balance"

As an example look at the following link...
MADDEN 16 Realistic Slider Set (ALL-PRO) - Operation Sports Forums

or simply google "Madden 16 slider settings" to see why gameplay balancing needs to be handed off to end users after the core gameplay has been nailed.

 

[SibiNaayagam]

It's not the customisation that I have a problem with. It's tweaking a specific element such as edges. You are simply not understanding my point. I'm trying to tell you that BA has people to test and do it for you. So one ball AI will hit for a six and next ball will be perfect to hit for six but yet he will edge it? And if you are saying you are going to balance it, you will have to check for a whole match, different conditions, a lot of different scenarios...for which BA pays it's staff to do the same. If you want more edges, set the bowling to easy or bring down batting AI's quality as an overall, a slider for that perhaps. Just about customising edges sounds too game breaking.

But at the end of the day, if BA thinks it wont break the game and give that feature to you then very well. I would rather be happy with the out of the box settings as long as it is atleast as good as franco's mod.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

Another thing is the pitch effects along with the weather effects and even reverse swinging after a period of time werent addressed in DBC 14 so those made effective and having influence on the gameplay would create the environment we are all looking for...

 

[blockerdave]

It's not the customisation that I have a problem with. It's tweaking a specific element such as edges. You are simply not understanding my point. I'm trying to tell you that BA has people to test and do it for you. So one ball AI will hit for a six and next ball will be perfect to hit for six but yet he will edge it? And if you are saying you are going to balance it, you will have to check for a whole match, different conditions, a lot of different scenarios...for which BA pays it's staff to do the same. If you want more edges, set the bowling to easy or bring down batting AI's quality as an overall, a slider for that perhaps. Just about customising edges sounds too game breaking.

But at the end of the day, if BA thinks it wont break the game and give that feature to you then very well. I would rather be happy with the out of the box settings as long as it is atleast as good as franco's mod.

BA couldn't get it right. They made an excellent game, and improved it with patches and yet still there was a fundamental part of cricket that for a single human player bowling to the AI simply didn't exist in the video game. it took 2 years for a genius like franco to come along and improve it, and then it is only for PC players.

if BA get it right, everybody leaves the sliders on default: no problem. otherwise we tweak and share our findings. within a week of release there will have been more hours of play testing than any developer could ever do. we had to do this in dbc14 anyway - the whole thread regarding lowered skills is testament to that - but still couldn't get a balanced, "real cricket" feel until franco came along.

 

[SibiNaayagam]

BA couldn't get it right. They made an excellent game, and improved it with patches and yet still there was a fundamental part of cricket that for a single human player bowling to the AI simply didn't exist in the video game. it took 2 years for a genius like franco to come along and improve it, and then it is only for PC players.

if BA get it right, everybody leaves the sliders on default: no problem. otherwise we tweak and share our findings. within a week of release there will have been more hours of play testing than any developer could ever do. we had to do this in dbc14 anyway - the whole thread regarding lowered skills is testament to that - but still couldn't get a balanced, "real cricket" feel until franco came along.

Easier thing to do would be to take franco's help in co-designing the AI instead of all this? :P

 

[blockerdave]

Easier thing to do would be to take franco's help in co-designing the AI instead of all this? :P

they definitely should be looking at what franco has done. but even franco gave user control (over pressure settings) even if not a slider.

giving a user control over their experience is not a bad thing.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

they definitely should be looking at what franco has done. but even franco gave user control (over pressure settings) even if not a slider.

giving a user control over their experience is not a bad thing.

Asking again [feeling stupid myself]..Do you mean with the difficulty level BA has and the pressure settings?

If yes wouldnt it become cheating if they have a XP thing going on?