i think we agree edges aren't correct, but - and apologies if i've misunderstood or am misrepresenting you here - it seemed as if you think it's a combination of the bowler not bowling well enough, and the system being too "cautious". your position seemed to be that edges are more or less fine, just the frequency needs to be increased.
i think the system just isn't right. you shouldn't have to bowl like glenn mcgrath putting the ball on the same spot time after time... there should be room for a steve harmison or even a devon malcolm... you can be more scattergun but you'll get plenty of edges.
even when you do generate an edge in the game, too often edges are essentially identical.
i have bowled hundreds of overs, in various conditions and various difficulty levels. edges are extremely rare, and they either result in a played-on or go to the keeper.
also, the ones going to the keeper tend to be a result of a top/bottom edge on a flat bat shot, not a defensive prod or drive, as you typically see.
my analogy would be the super-powered fielders which could be fixed with tweaking, and AI field placements, which needs rebuilding from the ground up. my understanding is you place edges in a "needs tweaking" category, i think it needs rebuilding.
Of no, there are some quite glaring issues, but they break down into three categories:
1. The Physics:
The edges that there are in the game are generally decent, but there aren't enough that go wider, higher and essentially it's too much: "edge and gone" and those few edges that occur seem to all be wickets, rather than there at least being some that make us think "ooh, that's a chance". This is something that can hopefully be adjusted and be good for both player and AI. The overall number from the physics may need to be increased, but I think there are bigger issues with the frequency. Keep in mind that the edges you give up are governed by this, and I can attest to giving up plenty off things like defensive shots.
2. The player physics
Player reactions and momentum are terrible, utterly terrible. They have reaction times of what seems like 0, and start at near full pace, allowing fielders to move about as they please and leading to odd results, this leads to particular issues for edges. Why? Because the keeper can just saunter about then dive full length, no worries mate. This means that the keeper can effectively cover an area up to about 1 and a half slip on both sides of himself, making first slip catches, which from my testing aren't that rare on trajectory of the edges, all but are nonexistent as the keeper just strolls up and takes them himself.
The point of fielding positions is to be in the best spots to take chances, but it really doesn't matter in this game as players cover a massive area due to these issues. If I had full control of the positions (that is, they don't need to be specified within the game) I'd just have my keeper, 3rd slip, 5th slips and a wider gully, not that they'd get used with the current physics. But the point remains, as things are there's no point having a first slip as the keeper covers him, and most of second slip. That's not to say that the keeper would never take a catch in front of first slip, it happens, rare, but happens. What he doesn't do though is see an edge of a 155km/h Johnson rocket and just casually stroll two steps forward infront of first slip and take it calmly.
3. The AI
Here is where the separation between human and AI for the frequency seems to come in. This seems to have been partially fixed (hence the better numbers of edges since patch 2), but still entirely yet. They seem to either middle or miss things. They also tend to try absolutely comical shots off some deliveries, which I think guts a lot of innings. I refer to one as the dressing room shot (a late cut angled towards or over slips from a ball that is going on to hit the stumps, ridiculously common in First Class and Test Matches), but it's not the only one. It seems that the way that the AI plays, and in particular misses, leads to a lot of issues in this regard. I think overall the game is balanced quite well in other respects though (there are good LBWs and bowled for the most part in terms of how they come about, barring a few dressing room shots), and that is the whole issue, fixing this issue without breaking everything else.
I have managed to come up with a rough set up for testing how edges occur in the game (basically the worst, most uneven cracked pitch, Australia v some terrible opponent in a T10) just to test how they look, how varied they are, and it was while doing that I noticed just how ridiculous the keeper and fielding was in general.
If they can:
- Allow for more varied edges, that is, more going into the ground, wide of the slips, over the slips and maybe an increase in the number of catchable ones
- Fix player momentum and reactions
- Get the AI to be less "middle or miss"
Then the edge problem may well be fixed. That's a lot of things in play though, and fixing any one of them could potentially break the rest of the game, and they'll be understandably cautious with any changes considering how good the game is otherwise.
Again, I'm not convinced that they think there's such a problem, but I heard they were conducting internal test last week. Hopefully the issue will be recognized properly (my interpretation may well be complete nonsense) and they can come up with solutions.
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I haven't bowled much yet, but as a general real life principle you get a genuine edge by drawing a batsman into a shot to a length ball just wide of the off stump and getting 2-3 inches of movement away.
You usually know you're in business because the batsman will look iffy on the front foot and you'll beat him a few times before you catch him in the right place on the crease with the right amount of movement.
I haven't really got that sense of vulnerability to the moving ball as a bowler in DBC yet. I'm just throwing it up on a length and hoping for the best.
To add to my previous post, this is exactly the issue. You can work a batsmen on the legs, you can set them up for LBW. You can get a batsmen who's look iffy defensively with the right plan and bowl him, and you can draw a batsman into a bad shot catch them. With the edges because the AI seems so "middle or miss" it all feels like a hiding to nothing, you set them up, you're getting those played and misses, but (particularly before patch 2, it's partially fixed) they would just completely miss, or middle it straight through for 4. You didn't get the feeling of "at least they're playing at it" when they did it either, it was just a case of: "Well, when they don't hit it they still won't get anywhere near the edge" and leads to other plans being better options. Setting players up for an edge is bread and butter in bowling, but in this game it just feels like "something that happens sometimes", and too rarely at that. It should be pretty much the most common dismissal, but instead it's one of the rarer in the game (particularly pre patch 2).
