General Cricket Discussion

[CerealKiller]

A lot of it has to do with people wishing something like it did work out. I think the cricket landscape wasn’t quite ready for it back then too since there weren’t much T20 franchise leagues then.

It's an atrractive prospect, but it can never work, because most teams would not be at full strength, their best players would be globetrotters who would choose another CL team they played for and qualified with.

 

[icyman]

I feel like there’s a lot of historical revisionism around the CLT20. It was a BCCI creature with half the IPL teams playing in it and retaining all their overseas players that had played for other franchises too, instead of a more equitable structure.

It was a BCCI-ECB-CA structure. As for the equitable structure, not sure what you are alluding to here. The prize money was the same- if you are referring to gaps among the teams, nothing can be done over that.

Players playing for multiple teams which will likely end up at the richest one when it comes to who they play for.
Another factor is no other league can sign Indian players, so they have an advantage. What if Birmingham (Bears or Phoenix) were to lose Moeen to CSK in such a tournament, it's not like they could sign Kohli or Pandya, but CSK could (if Moeen chose to play for Birmingham) sign anyone to replace him.

I've never seen an example of 'well to counteract that, you could do this...' that would be feasible when some teams will always have an advantage.

If Birmingham were to lose Moeen, CSK would have been required to pay 'X' amount to them. This was always in the rules. Franchisees seldom turn down money cause ultimately they are run by corporates who see the business end of things. As for counteracting, curious to see what you'd propose in this case.

I don’t know what’s in for the Saudis to make a T20 league frankly, I’ve said it before too. There’s little to be gained by ‘sportswashing’ via cricket compared to football since the biggest audience for T20 is located in the subcontinent and I have no idea what they would gain by pandering to us folk (I’m aware that they do sponsor the IPL but that’s a relatively easy way to get eyeballs compared to organising an entire league). If anything… it would make sense for them to organise a test league with some of the best test players out there. A lot of quality FC cricketers don’t get T20 deals or play a ton of white ball games who could be recruited for some quality cricket and they could easily appeal to the cricket aristocracy in the UK and Australia which sounds more up their alley of sportswashing.

Saudis or any one is least likely to sponsor a Test format. Let us look at the reasons why a corporate would want to own /sponsor a franchisee team over a Test league.

1. The game is short, grabs the required eyeballs and can gain traction almost immediately.
2. It is easy money
3. Test matches will never have that kind of audience, no matter the innovations you bring in- the difference between quality Test teams vs the Ordinary ones is huge
4. People do not have the patience to follow a league that has a single game lasting 5 days- which may not end in a result
5. I would also appreciate if you werent to bring up 'sportswashing' here. Saudi has been taking some very different strides in the last few years and to merely call is sportwashing is abominable. If this term is applied, then it applies to India, Pakistan, South Africa as well. So, let us stray clear of this.

 

[CerealKiller]

It was a BCCI-ECB-CA structure. As for the equitable structure, not sure what you are alluding to here. The prize money was the same- if you are referring to gaps among the teams, nothing can be done over that.

One team per league, and shared overseas players split as equally as possible instead of going to the IPL franchises

 

[icyman]

It's an atrractive prospect, but it can never work, because most teams would not be at full strength, their best players would be globetrotters who would choose another CL team they played for and qualified with.

It is the same in football, the only difference being that their players do not play for multiple teams within the same year. Teams will never be balanced equally, no matter the sport.

 

[icyman]

One team per league, and shared overseas players split as equally as possible instead of going to the IPL franchises

It started off with 2 teams per league (from BCCI, CA & ECB)- later on, I agree that the BCCI wormed 4 teams into it which became a bit too much.

As for overseas players being shared- As I explained in my post earlier, a Kieron Pollard would play for MI, while MI would pay Pollard's other franchisee a particular sum. The franchisee model looks at the profits they are making, not necessarily to win everything that comes their way.

KKR- while it has been some time since they won something, they are still profitable- a lot has to do with the superstar owning the team, but that is exactly what franchisees look at. So, if anyone offers MI $5M for not playing Ishan Kishan, they will probably take it.

 

[Bevab]

Saudis or any one is least likely to sponsor a Test format. Let us look at the reasons why a corporate would want to own /sponsor a franchisee team over a Test league.

1. The game is short, grabs the required eyeballs and can gain traction almost immediately.
2. It is easy money
3. Test matches will never have that kind of audience, no matter the innovations you bring in- the difference between quality Test teams vs the Ordinary ones is huge
4. People do not have the patience to follow a league that has a single game lasting 5 days- which may not end in a result
5. I would also appreciate if you werent to bring up 'sportswashing' here. Saudi has been taking some very different strides in the last few years and to merely call is sportwashing is abominable. If this term is applied, then it applies to India, Pakistan, South Africa as well. So, let us stray clear of this.

I do agree that it’s unlikely that anyone would be willing to front up money for a test league over a T20 one but that’s because most of them lack imagination or the willingness to try something new/take a risk… the reason being that you could run into making big losses. The latter isn’t an issue for the Saudis if they were to do something like this as they’ve already shown with their multiple sport ventures. Moving on to your reasons…

1. I’m not aware of who would they be targeting in the first place with a T20 league. As I already alluded to… the vast majority of interest in this format is from subcontinental people and I doubt they want to pander to them. Beyond that… I’m not sure how many eyeballs they’ll stand to gain (not literally… of course) beyond the bettors crowd in a sea of other T20 leagues that offer the same. It’s the same question that I keep asking the UAE league and unlike them… they don’t even have a semblance of cricket culture (Will stand corrected if it isn’t true).
2. I’m pretty sure you must be aware that most T20 leagues operate at a loss and are functioning only because they dream of making the kind of money the IPL generates eventually. It’s why SA is on their third attempt at a T20 league and it’s why more and more boards are willing to make the deal with the devil and invite private ownership of their franchises where the owners have more power than normal.
3. I’m not sure why you keep saying that tests involving ‘ordinary’ players would be boring when there’s multiple tests over the last five years that have shown this to not be the case. The issue in international tests is lopsided matchups in conditions that don’t favour or suit the weaker side, something that won’t be an issue with a hypothetical league. I don’t think you’ll be struggling with quality anyway… I had an idea for a four team league that runs during the 2024 WC and I’ll make a new post that shows how many good players those four sides could still have.
4. This is absolutely not true and is a myth being propagated by current cricket admins with a vested interest in making T20s the only thing in cricket because it is easier to organise as you say and because they believe it’s easier to make money from. You aren’t going to attract many Saudis to watch your league regardless of the format… as I said already it would be to attract the Aussie and English crowds that aren’t interested in T20 leagues beyond their domestic ones. That’s a market that hasn’t really been exploited and it is a lucrative one. I strongly suspect they would be able to attract people from other cricket nations too just because no one out there is doing a test league that has no overseas restrictions.
5. I’m not aware of any negative connotations with that term beyond the usual. I’m not sure how the same applies to any of the three countries you mentioned… none of them are spending lavishly on multiple sport ventures with no intention of making a profit for the sole reason to improve their global image. Their leader pretty much admitted that he doesn’t care if that’s what everyone calls it and said it was working anyway so I’m genuinely curious as to why you think it’s abominable.

 

[Bevab]

Just as proof of concept… here’s the four teams that could form a test league running in June 2024 parallel to the T20 WC. There’s enough time to squeeze in a single round robin and a final between the top two sides. I’m omitting players that are likely to participate in the WC and even those who stand a decent chance at being on the fringes of the WC squads.

Team #1

1. Usman Khawaja
2. Sir Alaistair Cook
3. Craig Ervine
4. James Vince
5. David Bedingham
6. Sikandar Raza
7. Ben Foakes
8. Taijul Islam
9. Kemar Roach
10. Neil Wagner
11. Jimmy Anderson

Team #2

1. Zak Crawley
2. Dimuth Karunaratne
3. Marnus Labuschagne
4. Temba Bavuma
5. Zubayr Hamza
6. Dinesh Chandimal
7. Alex Carey
8. Kyle Jamieson
9. Scott Boland
10. Nathan Lyon
11. Prabath Jayasuriya

Team #3

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Dean Elgar
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Mominul Haque
5. Dan Lawrence
6. Liam Dawson
7. Joshua Da Silva
8. Ollie Robinson
9. Simon Harmer
10. Mir Hamza
11. Mohammad Abbas

Team #4

1. Kraigg Brathwaite
2. Tom Latham
3. Josh Bohannon
4. Keegan Petersen
5. Henry Nicholls
6. Sean Williams
7. Tom Blundell
8. Craig Overton
9. Umesh Yadav
10. Jack Leach
11. Blessing Muzarabani

There are only one player in there that haven’t played international cricket yet and he arguably should have played a test by now. I didn’t really balance the sides for quality which does mean the second team may be a bit too strong comparatively but it’s just to show that you could have four sides filled with international quality, some big names and enough talent around to make it an interesting watch if it were to happen.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I do agree that it’s unlikely that anyone would be willing to front up money for a test league over a T20 one but that’s because most of them lack imagination or the willingness to try something new/take a risk… the reason being that you could run into making big losses. The latter isn’t an issue for the Saudis if they were to do something like this as they’ve already shown with their multiple sport ventures. Moving on to your reasons…

1. I’m not aware of who would they be targeting in the first place with a T20 league. As I already alluded to… the vast majority of interest in this format is from subcontinental people and I doubt they want to pander to them. Beyond that… I’m not sure how many eyeballs they’ll stand to gain (not literally… of course) beyond the bettors crowd in a sea of other T20 leagues that offer the same. It’s the same question that I keep asking the UAE league and unlike them… they don’t even have a semblance of cricket culture (Will stand corrected if it isn’t true).
2. I’m pretty sure you must be aware that most T20 leagues operate at a loss and are functioning only because they dream of making the kind of money the IPL generates eventually. It’s why SA is on their third attempt at a T20 league and it’s why more and more boards are willing to make the deal with the devil and invite private ownership of their franchises where the owners have more power than normal.
3. I’m not sure why you keep saying that tests involving ‘ordinary’ players would be boring when there’s multiple tests over the last five years that have shown this to not be the case. The issue in international tests is lopsided matchups in conditions that don’t favour or suit the weaker side, something that won’t be an issue with a hypothetical league. I don’t think you’ll be struggling with quality anyway… I had an idea for a four team league that runs during the 2024 WC and I’ll make a new post that shows how many good players those four sides could still have.
4. This is absolutely not true and is a myth being propagated by current cricket admins with a vested interest in making T20s the only thing in cricket because it is easier to organise as you say and because they believe it’s easier to make money from. You aren’t going to attract many Saudis to watch your league regardless of the format… as I said already it would be to attract the Aussie and English crowds that aren’t interested in T20 leagues beyond their domestic ones. That’s a market that hasn’t really been exploited and it is a lucrative one. I strongly suspect they would be able to attract people from other cricket nations too just because no one out there is doing a test league that has no overseas restrictions.
5. I’m not aware of any negative connotations with that term beyond the usual. I’m not sure how the same applies to any of the three countries you mentioned… none of them are spending lavishly on multiple sport ventures with no intention of making a profit for the sole reason to improve their global image. Their leader pretty much admitted that he doesn’t care if that’s what everyone calls it and said it was working anyway so I’m genuinely curious as to why you think it’s abominable.

Don't wanna tell you things that are obvious, but you have to take normal business logic out of the window when it comes to sports washing. When it comes to cricket; India is a major market and an important country in the world, why wouldn't Saudi Arabia want some kind of influence particularly on the biggest sport? Just look at Newcastle, Man City, PSG in football.

These global sporting organisations are largely unregulated, beholden to no one and will take money from anyone who has it. It's different for the national boards who could be held to account by a government, but who would stop the ICC from doing business with Saudi Arabia (Aramco is already a major sponsor)? What authority has jurisdiction? The HQ is literally on Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed Road?

This is a good video more generally about it (

) also mentions that it takes place on smaller scale and in Western cities/countries. One example I can think of is the use of public money to build sports stadiums in the US. That seems to happen all the time. That strikes me as a form of sports washing. Something like the rebel tours to South Africa during the apartheid are a form.

On a micro-level politicians are always inserting themselves into sport. It might not be buying golf but it's still PR which is largely what sports washing is.

Just as proof of concept… here’s the four teams that could form a test league running in June 2024 parallel to the T20 WC. There’s enough time to squeeze in a single round robin and a final between the top two sides. I’m omitting players that are likely to participate in the WC and even those who stand a decent chance at being on the fringes of the WC squads.

Team #1

1. Usman Khawaja
2. Sir Alaistair Cook
3. Craig Ervine
4. James Vince
5. David Bedingham
6. Sikandar Raza
7. Ben Foakes
8. Taijul Islam
9. Kemar Roach
10. Neil Wagner
11. Jimmy Anderson

Team #2

1. Zak Crawley
2. Dimuth Karunaratne
3. Marnus Labuschagne
4. Temba Bavuma
5. Zubayr Hamza
6. Dinesh Chandimal
7. Alex Carey
8. Kyle Jamieson
9. Scott Boland
10. Nathan Lyon
11. Prabath Jayasuriya

Team #3

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Dean Elgar
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Mominul Haque
5. Dan Lawrence
6. Liam Dawson
7. Joshua Da Silva
8. Ollie Robinson
9. Simon Harmer
10. Mir Hamza
11. Mohammad Abbas

Team #4

1. Kraigg Brathwaite
2. Tom Latham
3. Josh Bohannon
4. Keegan Petersen
5. Henry Nicholls
6. Sean Williams
7. Tom Blundell
8. Craig Overton
9. Umesh Yadav
10. Jack Leach
11. Blessing Muzarabani

There are only one player in there that haven’t played international cricket yet and he arguably should have played a test by now. I didn’t really balance the sides for quality which does mean the second team may be a bit too strong comparatively but it’s just to show that you could have four sides filled with international quality, some big names and enough talent around to make it an interesting watch if it were to happen.

Bring back Kerry Packer.

I do think this would be watched by very few people in empty stadiums, the big names are still T20 players for the most part. It would absolutely hemorrhage money so the only people who could do would probably be some petrostate.

 

[pillowprocter]

Just look at Newcastle, Man City, PSG in football.

but who would stop the ICC from doing business with Saudi Arabia

(Aramco is already a major sponsor)?

The HQ is literally on Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed Road?

You're mixing up Saudi and UAE a bit there. And all the major roads in Dubai are named after sheikhs/Islamic figures anyway.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

You're mixing up Saudi and UAE a bit there. And all the major roads in Dubai are named after sheikhs/Islamic figures anyway.

I'm using different examples, I know they're different countries.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

 

[Aislabie]

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Jim needs to stick to stanning Enoch Powell

 

[Bigby Wolf]

Wait , What!

 

[Bevab]

Don't wanna tell you things that are obvious, but you have to take normal business logic out of the window when it comes to sports washing. When it comes to cricket; India is a major market and an important country in the world, why wouldn't Saudi Arabia want some kind of influence particularly on the biggest sport? Just look at Newcastle, Man City, PSG in football.

These global sporting organisations are largely unregulated, beholden to no one and will take money from anyone who has it. It's different for the national boards who could be held to account by a government, but who would stop the ICC from doing business with Saudi Arabia (Aramco is already a major sponsor)? What authority has jurisdiction? The HQ is literally on Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed Road?

This is a good video more generally about it (

) also mentions that it takes place on smaller scale and in Western cities/countries. One example I can think of is the use of public money to build sports stadiums in the US. That seems to happen all the time. That strikes me as a form of sports washing. Something like the rebel tours to South Africa during the apartheid are a form.

On a micro-level politicians are always inserting themselves into sport. It might not be buying golf but it's still PR which is largely what sports washing is.

Bring back Kerry Packer.

I do think this would be watched by very few people in empty stadiums, the big names are still T20 players for the most part. It would absolutely hemorrhage money so the only people who could do would probably be some petrostate.

India’s importance to the world in general from what I can see largely lies in providing an educated and skilled workforce that isn’t likely to demand the type of wages/compensation/investment someone local would do. The other factors vary depending on the region (the West wants India to be a useful ally against China for instance). Beyond the first reason… there isn’t another reason for the Arab countries to be particularly interested in India for… not to mention the subtle racial factor in play.

The football deals are a lot more than wanting influence in the most popular sport worldwide. I don’t remember the exact specifics now but when QSI bought PSG… a series of events happened. Things like Bein Sports buying up the rights to the French league, Qatar buying military jets from France and making a trade deal and France supporting the WC bid from Qatar vehemently. Also remember the Emirati ownership of Man City doing a lot of improvements to the community surrounding the club and securing social influence via that way. The Saudis already seem to be on their way to doing that with Newcastle… it’s not a coincidence that both of the Arab investments were into clubs that are in the North of England which I believe is often overlooked compared to London and it’s surroundings? I don’t recall any concrete interest from such parties in Chelsea and the Qataris barely made an effort with Tottenham whilst they were willing to raise a big media circus around their potential United takeover.

Completely agree with the lack of oversight or ‘checks and balances’ with global regulating bodies or the ones who are at the top. Just a recent example… the Asian Football Confederation raised the overseas playing limit for the Asian Champions League games quite recently and have also revamped the continental competitions to make it more into a closed circle that directly benefits the Saudi teams and their league. The latest news is that they’re completely abolishing the overseas limit for the Champions League which hugely benefits the Arab teams (the Saudis in particular) who can outspend every other Asian club for overseas players. Most other leagues have a max overseas (non-Asian) limit of four to five per playing XI. Extremely reminiscent of the BCCI’s behaviour with the ICC and ACC.

I do agree that it isn’t unique to the present day examples, South Africa under apartheid rule would be the other big example. There are other examples too… Rwanda have been sponsoring Arsenal with their tourism programme on their jerseys whilst forcibly exerting their sphere of influence on their neighbours amongst other heinous acts.

Never intended for the hypothetical idea of mine to be a profit generator in all fairness. I don’t think they’ll make profitable money in any manner no matter what they do… they’ll have to grossly overspend to get the real big names for their T20 league if they do start one and even if they don’t have to they will do that just as a show of power . It’s even less likelier that they’ll be able to stand out if they attempt to do what everyone else has already been doing for quite some time. At least with the test league they’ll be able to get a crowd that hasn’t been captured by any non-domestic T20 league.