General Cricket Discussion

[GuyIncognito]

India’s importance to the world in general from what I can see largely lies in providing an educated and skilled workforce that isn’t likely to demand the type of wages/compensation/investment someone local would do. The other factors vary depending on the region (the West wants India to be a useful ally against China for instance). Beyond the first reason… there isn’t another reason for the Arab countries to be particularly interested in India for… not to mention the subtle racial factor in play.

The football deals are a lot more than wanting influence in the most popular sport worldwide. I don’t remember the exact specifics now but when QSI bought PSG… a series of events happened. Things like Bein Sports buying up the rights to the French league, Qatar buying military jets from France and making a trade deal and France supporting the WC bid from Qatar vehemently. Also remember the Emirati ownership of Man City doing a lot of improvements to the community surrounding the club and securing social influence via that way. The Saudis already seem to be on their way to doing that with Newcastle… it’s not a coincidence that both of the Arab investments were into clubs that are in the North of England which I believe is often overlooked compared to London and it’s surroundings? I don’t recall any concrete interest from such parties in Chelsea and the Qataris barely made an effort with Tottenham whilst they were willing to raise a big media circus around their potential United takeover.

Completely agree with the lack of oversight or ‘checks and balances’ with global regulating bodies or the ones who are at the top. Just a recent example… the Asian Football Confederation raised the overseas playing limit for the Asian Champions League games quite recently and have also revamped the continental competitions to make it more into a closed circle that directly benefits the Saudi teams and their league. The latest news is that they’re completely abolishing the overseas limit for the Champions League which hugely benefits the Arab teams (the Saudis in particular) who can outspend every other Asian club for overseas players. Most other leagues have a max overseas (non-Asian) limit of four to five per playing XI. Extremely reminiscent of the BCCI’s behaviour with the ICC and ACC.

I do agree that it isn’t unique to the present day examples, South Africa under apartheid rule would be the other big example. There are other examples too… Rwanda have been sponsoring Arsenal with their tourism programme on their jerseys whilst forcibly exerting their sphere of influence on their neighbours amongst other heinous acts.

Never intended for the hypothetical idea of mine to be a profit generator in all fairness. I don’t think they’ll make profitable money in any manner no matter what they do… they’ll have to grossly overspend to get the real big names for their T20 league if they do start one and even if they don’t have to they will do that just as a show of power . It’s even less likelier that they’ll be able to stand out if they attempt to do what everyone else has already been doing for quite some time. At least with the test league they’ll be able to get a crowd that hasn’t been captured by any non-domestic T20 league.

Just glancing through and seeing this without reading I am going to assume... yes.

 

[icyman]

Nothing else matters now....

 

[icyman]

The HQ is literally on Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed Road?

The HQ was moved to Dubai for tax reasons. From my experience with Islamic businesses, they aren't the ones who will force their hand/ask for a favour.

 

[angloindian]

Nothing else matters now....

View attachment 289980

After a successful, lucrative, well received (barring the final for us fans) World Cup, Jay Shah is looking like one of the sports top administrators currently.

If he was to chair the ICC, it would easily be a better choice than anyone else, not to mention added glamour to test series because India would feature in more test matches.

 

[GuyIncognito]

The BCCI becoming the ICC, nearly formal then.

 

[icyman]

I dunno the fascination that Indian admins have with the ICC Chairman's position. It is virtually a powerless post and the Chairman cannot unilaterally take decisions. The ICC's CEO has always been more powerful traditionally. Malcolm Gray, Dave Richardson were definitely good blokes to have lead the council, can't say the same about the incumbent.

In terms of the Chairman, the only Indian who made a big difference at the ICC was Jagmohan Dalmiya. The rest were mere power seekers- Pawar, Manohar etc. Really wonder why Shah wants to helm the body, given that the World Cup host allocations have already been made until 2031.

 

[icyman]

I do agree that it’s unlikely that anyone would be willing to front up money for a test league over a T20 one but that’s because most of them lack imagination or the willingness to try something new/take a risk… the reason being that you could run into making big losses. The latter isn’t an issue for the Saudis if they were to do something like this as they’ve already shown with their multiple sport ventures.

Man, a test league might not help them make money easily. While, the general perception being that the Saudis are uber rich and they wouldn't care about budgets is partially true, I fail to see why they would jump in and promote a Test league- where a majority of the 1st choice players might not play. With an already crowded international calendar, a test league will take up a lot of time and might only see national discards forming a part of the same.

I’m not aware of who would they be targeting in the first place with a T20 league. As I already alluded to… the vast majority of interest in this format is from subcontinental people and I doubt they want to pander to them. Beyond that… I’m not sure how many eyeballs they’ll stand to gain (not literally… of course) beyond the bettors crowd in a sea of other T20 leagues that offer the same. It’s the same question that I keep asking the UAE league and unlike them… they don’t even have a semblance of cricket culture (Will stand corrected if it isn’t true).

With the subcontinental diaspora being huge in the Middle East, the Saudis would ideally want to pull cricket towards them. Saudi has been making some great strides recently in terms of relaxing norms, showcasing themselves as an open economy/more liberal. Cricket could be used as a pre-cursor to the FIFA 2034 they would be hosting. Gives them a decade to tamper and show to the world they are ready to host and welcome. It is akin to Mandela's South Africa using the Rugby World Cup hosting rights in the early 1990s to gain traction among the world's population/ to show the world that they are welcoming / open country.

I’m pretty sure you must be aware that most T20 leagues operate at a loss and are functioning only because they dream of making the kind of money the IPL generates eventually. It’s why SA is on their third attempt at a T20 league and it’s why more and more boards are willing to make the deal with the devil and invite private ownership of their franchises where the owners have more power than normal.

I should have clarified that making money from a limited overs cricket league is easier than making money from a Test match cricket league.

I’m not sure why you keep saying that tests involving ‘ordinary’ players would be boring when there’s multiple tests over the last five years that have shown this to not be the case. The issue in international tests is lopsided matchups in conditions that don’t favour or suit the weaker side, something that won’t be an issue with a hypothetical league. I don’t think you’ll be struggling with quality anyway… I had an idea for a four team league that runs during the 2024 WC and I’ll make a new post that shows how many good players those four sides could still have.

Come on now- players from ECB, CA and BCCI are still miles ahead of their counterparts in BD, WI, SL, Pak to an extent. The main issue is that test cricket is fading in these lesser nations as there is little joy to be gained from getting beaten/ no hopes for winning the WTC. The tests you are alluding to is a mere handful just to prove your point.

This is absolutely not true and is a myth being propagated by current cricket admins with a vested interest in making T20s the only thing in cricket because it is easier to organise as you say and because they believe it’s easier to make money from. You aren’t going to attract many Saudis to watch your league regardless of the format… as I said already it would be to attract the Aussie and English crowds that aren’t interested in T20 leagues beyond their domestic ones. That’s a market that hasn’t really been exploited and it is a lucrative one. I strongly suspect they would be able to attract people from other cricket nations too just because no one out there is doing a test league that has no overseas restrictions.

I believe you are speaking for yourself here. The general perception has definitely changed over the years. T20/limited overs will attract audiences-you really feel if the IPL switches to a Test format, it will become a talking point? It will lose most of the brand value that it has built up over the years.

I’m not aware of any negative connotations with that term beyond the usual. I’m not sure how the same applies to any of the three countries you mentioned… none of them are spending lavishly on multiple sport ventures with no intention of making a profit for the sole reason to improve their global image. Their leader pretty much admitted that he doesn’t care if that’s what everyone calls it and said it was working anyway so I’m genuinely curious as to why you think it’s abominable.

Using sports to wash away wrong doing- it is exactly what SA did in the 1990s by hosting the Rugby World Cup. Sports brings people together- so I really dunno why this term has to be used.

Just as proof of concept… here’s the four teams that could form a test league running in June 2024 parallel to the T20 WC. There’s enough time to squeeze in a single round robin and a final between the top two sides. I’m omitting players that are likely to participate in the WC and even those who stand a decent chance at being on the fringes of the WC squads.

Very limited audience, not scalable, not profitable from a franchisee owner's POV. While you've mentioned the intention behind such an idea isnt to make any profit- if that is the case, why would anyone jump into it? Unless, ofcourse they were SLC or BCB

 

[icyman]

After a successful, lucrative, well received (barring the final for us fans) World Cup, Jay Shah is looking like one of the sports top administrators currently.

If he was to chair the ICC, it would easily be a better choice than anyone else, not to mention added glamour to test series because India would feature in more test matches.

Check my point on the ICC Chairmanship- little to be gained for Shah right now. India can't feature in more tests, it already has a packed calendar. The only reason I can think of- Shah has found a loophole on the Lodha BCCI reforms, which means he has to be away for 3 years from the BCCI before he can assume the Prez's position. Honestly, given that they are in power, find it difficult to digest the fact that the Lodha reforms aren't yet a thing of the past.

 

[Bevab]

Man, a test league might not help them make money easily. While, the general perception being that the Saudis are uber rich and they wouldn't care about budgets is partially true, I fail to see why they would jump in and promote a Test league- where a majority of the 1st choice players might not play. With an already crowded international calendar, a test league will take up a lot of time and might only see national discards forming a part of the same.

With the subcontinental diaspora being huge in the Middle East, the Saudis would ideally want to pull cricket towards them. Saudi has been making some great strides recently in terms of relaxing norms, showcasing themselves as an open economy/more liberal. Cricket could be used as a pre-cursor to the FIFA 2034 they would be hosting. Gives them a decade to tamper and show to the world they are ready to host and welcome. It is akin to Mandela's South Africa using the Rugby World Cup hosting rights in the early 1990s to gain traction among the world's population/ to show the world that they are welcoming / open country.

I should have clarified that making money from a limited overs cricket league is easier than making money from a Test match cricket league.

Come on now- players from ECB, CA and BCCI are still miles ahead of their counterparts in BD, WI, SL, Pak to an extent. The main issue is that test cricket is fading in these lesser nations as there is little joy to be gained from getting beaten/ no hopes for winning the WTC. The tests you are alluding to is a mere handful just to prove your point.

I believe you are speaking for yourself here. The general perception has definitely changed over the years. T20/limited overs will attract audiences-you really feel if the IPL switches to a Test format, it will become a talking point? It will lose most of the brand value that it has built up over the years.

Using sports to wash away wrong doing- it is exactly what SA did in the 1990s by hosting the Rugby World Cup. Sports brings people together- so I really dunno why this term has to be used.

Very limited audience, not scalable, not profitable from a franchisee owner's POV. While you've mentioned the intention behind such an idea isnt to make any profit- if that is the case, why would anyone jump into it? Unless, ofcourse they were SLC or BCB

Not sure if you saw the four hypothetical sides I did form. Half of each side has an active international player and the remaining half is filled with players who used to be international players too. From your perspective, it will have more quality than a test series between two of the lesser nations as you call them and I’ve found those series entertaining already, you don’t need a Fab Four player in each lineup for it to suddenly become an enticing prospect… speaking of which I’m sure Root or Smudge would be available for said league once they realise they aren’t in their T20 WC squads. That fixes the biggest issue I have with the teams which is a lack of a world class number four. In this hypothetical scenario I would be far more worried about finding the space for a month long event but even that’s not the biggest worry when the ICC has a marquee event for each of the next four years. It feels very on brand for them to have their own event to try and steal the thunder in such instances.

I’ve not seen the Saudis pander to the subcontinental diaspora on a large scale and from what I’ve heard they don’t really view our folk in the same way they do someone from the West (will stand corrected if someone else with experience disagrees on this). It would be a novel step if they suddenly decided our folk are worth splashing the cash on for entertainment attraction.

I don’t think I’m speaking for myself though? My premise wasn’t that test cricket has more interest in it than T20s, it is that tests are being neglected and a narrative is being pushed by groups with vested interests elsewhere to make it sound like they aren’t an appealing prospect anymore. You wouldn’t have so many players extolling the virtues of test cricket otherwise. I’ve also said that T20s are easier to organise and make money from in the same post. The point about Aussie and English audiences is also true even if they’re warming up a bit to the IPL. You could also add the NZ audience to it since their timezone forces them to not be able to watch any other league at humanely possible times and they’ve got a similar liking of tests.

The IPL skews every comparison or discussion around T20 leagues ultimately. It is an outlier among them since it has been profitable for a long time and also generates a lot of money whilst remaining very stable for the most part (the only times it has had a crisis would be the match fixing convictions, the first expansion teams failing miserably and the pandemic disrupting it’s functioning). Most other countries are still grappling with issues related to their T20 leagues and ones who have settled into a status quo weren’t far away from disaster recently.

I don’t agree on there being a limited audience at the end of the day for the hypothetical test league, all of my posts towards it on the contrary have been pointing out factors as to why it has the potential to not be limited in audience. I also disagree on it not being scalable if it does work. You’re also missing the fact that a T20 league of theirs wouldn’t be profitable either. The margin of loss may be smaller there but… does that even matter to the organisers when they can reach markets in cricket that haven’t been explored?

 

[Aislabie]

Fantastic article here from Jarrod Kimber

The Athletic for cricket

Looking at cricket writing in the modern world.

wickets.substack.com

Tagging @Bevab @ddrap14 and @wasteyouryouth in particular, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts

 

[CerealKiller]

Fantastic article hear from Jarrod Kimber

The Athletic for cricket

Looking at cricket writing in the modern world.

wickets.substack.com

Tagging @Bevab @ddrap14 and @wasteyouryouth in particular, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts

I would genuinely pay for something like this. It's so frustrating to see the Pakistan correspondent for Cricinfo barely writing anything

 

[pillowprocter]

I would genuinely pay for something like this. It's so frustrating to see the Pakistan correspondent for Cricinfo barely writing anything

yeahhh gimme the president's trophy match reports and analysis into Moeez Ghani's cover drive

 

[Bevab]

Fantastic article here from Jarrod Kimber

The Athletic for cricket

Looking at cricket writing in the modern world.

wickets.substack.com

Tagging @Bevab @ddrap14 and @wasteyouryouth in particular, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts

Great piece.

Kimber’s covered pretty much everything I could talk about this so I’ll just talk from a personal perspective.

I was an Athletic subscriber, before they sold it to the New York Times (may have also been one after that but I don’t remember). I read only a handful of articles on the American sports section but I could realise that they were good. The main things I read were entirely football related (and not the handegg version of it).

It was quite revolutionary at that time. Here was a place where I could get insights into every Premier League side and every big European club and have that be dedicated coverage too. It made for quite a difference from reading things on other sites or more niche places. Most importantly, this would finally be a mainstream place to get my Spurs fix without the author resorting to the usual cliches that plague every other mainstream Spurs article.

Reality was not… as wonderful as I had imagined. Plenty of articles were as good as you would expect and some were outstanding (difficult not to when you’ve got talent like Honigstein, Horncastle and Cox writing for you). However it was clear and obvious that they had to meet a minimum article requirement per team or league on a weekly basis and hence fluff was pushed out sometimes that was no different from the poor articles elsewhere. I don’t necessarily think the good articles there were much better than the good articles elsewhere… just that it was slightly more frequent.

There were also certain pieces that felt very much like club PR ones… the kind of articles that you feel a club pushes out to control the narrative when a decision that may be unpopular is taken. A managerial departure… the contentious sale of a player… it was frequently followed by a piece or ‘insight’ into how the individual had burned bridges or behaved in a manner that forced the club’s hand who couldn’t be blamed for it. I’ve heard similar sentiments echoed from others and the belief is that staying on a club’s good side is beneficial to the site for obvious reasons. It’s not all club PR dominated though, they were the primary driving force behind Man Utd being forced to not reintegrate Greenwood again with how relentless their coverage of the shameful attempt from the club was.

I’m not sure if the beat writer system would work for an IPL side so I’m not sure why Kimber is stunned such a thing doesn’t exist already. As popular as it is… the IPL only runs for two and a half months. Most other sport teams function for nearly the entire year and even in the off-season there’s plenty of talking points over transfers, player retentions and coaching changes. You can’t be filling all of the time from July to December with post-season and pre-auction talk per side. Having the same writer represent the Super Kings or Reliance franchises across the globe also doesn’t make much sense when each of them is in a different country demanding different knowledge. I suppose it would be a hilarious parallel to how we have the same set of players turning up across the globe in different leagues though.

The financial aspect of it seems dubious too. Kimber reckons they could make money off a low-subscription model and ad revenue… it feels very much like ‘paid in exposure’ would be the reality for some of their writers if it were to happen. The Athletic despite its wide coverage, marketing and popularity was not profitable when it was bought by the NYT.

 

[CerealKiller]

yeahhh gimme the president's trophy match reports and analysis into Moeez Ghani's cover drive

Unironically, a piece about the shenanigans in this tournament is the bare minimum, alongside a round-by-round summary. We only got a story about a department's withdrawal from the tournament.
Nothing about a private league, Sindh Premier League, being allowed by the PCB for some reason.
I would imagine a Pakistan correspondent would at least churn out one article per week.

 

[Bevab]

Unironically, a piece about the shenanigans in this tournament is the bare minimum, alongside a round-by-round summary. We only got a story about a department's withdrawal from the tournament.
Nothing about a private league, Sindh Premier League, being allowed by the PCB for some reason.
I would imagine a Pakistan correspondent would at least churn out one article per week.

Makes me wish for someone to properly cover Ranji Trophy too.